Can I / Should I hit with Ox again?

[Tonyg 14]

I stripped my fence, shed, and neighbors fence last Saturday. My fence and shed had the black version of WT WHG. My fence came out fine and the shed, with Cyprus, originally looked pretty good last week when it dried.

Ive noticed the last day or two the shed is getting some blackening on the cyprus horizontals. I still have to do some defurring but I was hoping to stain it tomorrow if I get home in time.

The second item is the neighbors fence. I have attached the before/after. Although there were still some stains after cleaning it looked much better than it does now. The blackening is significant and although I just did it as a favor I do not want it to look bad when I stain it. I would have to look at it every day when I came home.

Can I / Should I hit them with Ox again? Is a week to long to wait before staining cyprus or is this something else. The neighbors fence is just ultra cheap PT.

PS: I did use a NaOH and strong SH solution to clean and strip and then neutralized with Ox at about 7oz per gallon.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Tonyg

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Rewash....and try mixing citric with your ox to cut down on the silvering you get.

Beth

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I think you might need to hit it again with hd-80 again to get rid of the black pigment that appears to be left in the substrate.

Rod!~

[Adrian 155]

Rewash....and try mixing citric with your ox to cut down on the silvering you get.

Beth

Citric as in Citrallic with Ox? I though that was a no no.

[RPetry 564]

Tony,

BTW the wood is cypress. Anyway, it almost looks like the old Behr's nightmare from years past, ie. mold/mildew getting below the substrate of the wood. Does the various incantations of WT do that?

Regardless, if that is the problem, the only remedy I have found is a hard NaOH soaking for 12 hrs. And that cannot be done on vertical wood.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Citric as in Citrallic with Ox? I though that was a no no.

"Citralic" is a made up name, created by ESI, to label the blend of citric and oxalic acid they sell. According to the MSDS it is a 70/30 blend. We use a blend, but do not buy the ESI product.

Oxalic when mixed too strong can cause a silver effect to be present once the wood dries. Blended oxalic and citric leaves the wood more natural looking. You could use all citric, but it won't address tannin bleeding from nails and such, you need the oxalic for that.

Hope this helps.

Beth

[RPetry 564]

Beth,

Ahem... Nothing addresses "tannin" bleed on cedar or other decent woods for very long. And it is the degradation of the fasteners, not the wood itself.

Wood is a pure wonder of nature. It is carpenters and bad wood restorers that cause the problems.

Edited June 13, 2009 by RPetry

[PressurePros 248]

Tony.. strange. I'm gonna guess you have a mold spore issue. Your fence pre-wash pictures' bright green spots correspond almost perfectly with the blackening. I'm gonna go have to urge myself after suggesting this but.. maybe a light bleach wash? Its unfortunate that ESI had to go through so many issues trying to get a uniform quality Wood Tux. I have some Wood Tux decks that still look good after three years with no maintenance. Unfortunately the majority of them look like hell with some having to have been stripped in less than six months.

[Adrian 155]

The B word !!!!!!

[RPetry 564]

The B word !!!!!!

Adrian,

Hah! The "B word" has been a proven cleaner for wood for decades. Ask Diamond Jim , or Shane from Tx. (where is he by the way?), or other old time wood contractors from the old Delco board, if they are still alive!

We do not use it on raw wood, but for maintenance, its the cat's meow.

[Tonyg 14]

Thanks guys. I used a fairly strong NaOH solution to strip and added about 3.5%-4% SH because of the black in the WT. I was afraid it bred mildew under the stain. The neighbors fence was typical ugly cheap fence - never cleaned or stained.

My PT fence did not discolor but the cyprus definitely changed over the week. I wasn't sure if the softer wood would change like that. I used a strong enough SH mix that I would think it wouldn't be residual mildew.

I will wash again and try to stain it quickly. Is the discoloration on the cyprus "silvering" or is it is it a matter of the PH not being balanced? I know it looks bad now but it really did look fine last weekend and seemed to discolor more as the week went on. Will it make a difference if I juice up the Ox?

I will order some citric next time I place a chem order. Is there a surfactant or buffer that can be added as well?

Edited June 13, 2009 by Tonyg

[Adrian 155]

Adrian,

Hah! The "B word" has been a proven cleaner for wood for decades. Ask Diamond Jim , or Shane from Tx. (where is he by the way?), or other old time wood contractors from the old Delco board, if they are still alive!

We do not use it on raw wood, but for maintenance, its the cat's meow.

I actually saw Shane today. He's still at it.

Been a "B" man myself for many a year.

Where do you think I picked it up from?

Hmmm.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Beth,

Ahem... Nothing addresses "tannin" bleed on cedar or other decent woods for very long. And it is the degradation of the fasteners, not the wood itself.

Wood is a pure wonder of nature. It is carpenters and bad wood restorers that cause the problems.

Where it involves fasteners, you are correct. But there are also cases of tannin bleed that do not involve fasteners....

Beth

[RPetry 564]

Where it involves fasteners, you are correct. But there are also cases of tannin bleed that do not involve fasteners....

Beth

Beth,

Could you describe this further? The only serious problem I've had with cedars is raising the natural extractives towards the surface due to hard sanding.

[RPetry 564]

I actually saw Shane today. He's still at it.

Been a "B" man myself for many a year.

Where do you think I picked it up from?

Hmmm.

Adrian,

That's good to know, I thought Shane was lost. Miss his great pictures and funny posts.

Shane, along with Diamond Jim Foley, was the founder of the BDA!

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Beth,

Could you describe this further? The only serious problem I've had with cedars is raising the natural extractives towards the surface due to hard sanding.

You will also see it where excessive amounts of water have been on the wood, right where the dry line is...we have seen it on log and cedar homes quite a bit. If you have ever washed a deck attached to a wood home you may have seen it around the rails where they connect to the dwelling, where water pitches off of a roof with no gutters or overflowing gutters, also on fences you will see it from the bottom up (wicking), and especially around plants where an area stays wet longer. Sometimes you can actually see the rings from the tannin sort of bordering the area between the overly wet and more dry area. The fix in this case is to rewash and neutralize the entire area so the tannin marks are removed.

Hope this helps.

Beth

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Here's a shot of what I'm talking about. Brand new house, never washed or sealed that has to have the issue addresses before the first finish is installed.

Beth

[RPetry 564]

You will also see it where excessive amounts of water have been on the wood, right where the dry line is...we have seen it on log and cedar homes quite a bit. If you have ever washed a deck attached to a wood home you may have seen it around the rails where they connect to the dwelling, where water pitches off of a roof with no gutters or overflowing gutters, also on fences you will see it from the bottom up (wicking), and especially around plants where an area stays wet longer. Sometimes you can actually see the rings from the tannin sort of bordering the area between the overly wet and more dry area. The fix in this case is to rewash and neutralize the entire area so the tannin marks are removed.

Hope this helps.

Beth

Beth,

Aha, gotcha'. Know now what you mean. I have seen this at times on vertical cedar T&G 1 x 6's, used for skirting around decks. Cannot remember the last time we did a fence, but have seen pics of "shadows" caused by sprinklers.

Did not connect the discoloring to tannin in the wood.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

If you look closely, you will see a darker ring between the grey wood and the golden wood, that is the migrating extractives and tannin.

Beth

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Rick,

Mineral stains caused by sprinklers tend to be darker overall as you mentioned. :)

Beth

[RPetry 564]

Beth,

That is one neat little log house. Throw in some elves and it could be on the set of Lord of the Rings!

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

That is but one tiny entry.....on the uber log home I mentioned to you. All the support logs are huge. It is still under construction.

Beth

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Rick,

Here's a better shot of your "little" log hobbit house...

Beth

[RPetry 564]

Beth,

Holy smokes, that is a huge project! Is that WTW I see? Hah!

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Beth,

Holy smokes, that is a huge project! Is that WTW I see? Hah!

That's a big HELL NO on that WTW....

House is 6,000 sq ft....plus decks....

Beth

[Richard 17]

A picture says a 1000 words.

Ya, and some times I can't understand a word they're saying.

Nice shack they have there. My heart goes out to them.