Blending new/old PT

[bigchaz 157]

I've got a 20x10 deck with a 10x10 addition. (Rails are all new on the whole deck) Old part is 4 years old, moldy, gray, no stain. New deck is less than a week old.

They know it will never match but is there anything I can do help this process? I'm not comfortable waiting a year while the old section gets even worse, and I don't see the point in cleaning only the floor on the old part while the rails and 100 sq foot additional surface have nothing.

If you absolutely had to stain brand new pressure treated, what would you do to prep it? And how do I best blend with the old wood?

[Celeste 341]

Tint :)

[RPetry 564]

Charlie,

We use to do a hard NaOH on new wood, trying to kind of "age" it to help match up with old wood. Not anymore.

We can do various mixes with different colors of Ready Seal to minimize the coloration difference. But in the end, there is still a noticeable difference.

[bigchaz 157]

I figured the color won't be perfect and homeowner seems to recognize this. My fear is more with the fact that this wood couldn't possibly get any newer.

Planning on armstrong cedar toner for this deck and I mainly don't want to have the new wood wear off in 6 months.

Rick, will a strong NaOH help with penetration? I don't read all these threads with opening the pores of the wood, etc. I just don't want to end up putting one light coat on and have puddling since none of it soaks in

[PressurePros 248]

Strong acid or strong bleach and a couple months exposure to the sun helps but.. you can count on the fact that in one year that the new PTP will be nearly bare. Let the homeowner know you will be back for maintenance.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

You can also sand the old wood....THAT works well!

Beth

[RPetry 564]

Strong acid or strong bleach and a couple months exposure to the sun helps but.. you can count on the fact that in one year that the new PTP will be nearly bare. Let the homeowner know you will be back for maintenance.

Charlie,

Ken makes a good point. A very strong acid may help a bit, not sure about the bleach. Maybe Diamond Jim knows.

You can also sand the old wood....THAT works well!

Beth

Beth makes a score! Sand the snot out of the old PT wood to get down to bare tacks. Good idea but 'ya got enough belt sanders, time, and $ in the job?

[PressurePros 248]

That would help the toning issue, but the fact remains that ACQ treated wood is terrible (when it comes to staining) for the 3 months its down. Even the KD stuff sucks.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Charlie,

Ken makes a good point. A very strong acid may help a bit, not sure about the bleach. Maybe Diamond Jim knows.

Beth makes a score! Sand the snot out of the old PT wood to get down to bare tacks. Good idea but 'ya got enough belt sanders, time, and $ in the job?

We have done a number of them. Customers were thrilled! Replace only the boards too far gone to sand. Offer it as an option, let them decide how important it is, or is not.

Beth

Edited June 23, 2009 by Beth n Rod

[bigchaz 157]

The older part of the deck isn't in bad shape it just has a good amount of mold and certainly needs a cleaning for sure.

So here's the plan according to what I've gathered from yall. Heavy strip on the new wood and regular cleaning on the older parts. Then do heavy acid on the new and regular acid on the old. The wood definitely doesn't need sanding but I will do some to help blend

Rick: Don't have the job yet, just thinking ahead for options. Money is good and time won't be a problem. As for sanders...my two orbitals and makita buffer burned up but I've bought new. I don't have belt sanders but not sure how I would utilize them. Seems like they all have 3" drums which is pretty useless IMO. What are you using?

Edited June 23, 2009 by bigchaz

[acegot 14]

If they really want the best chance of getting it to match: Restore the whole deck and rail as you normally would. (no sealer/stain) wait 4to 8 weeks (depending on how wet the new PTP is) then sand the whole deck, old part heavier sand, new wood lighter sand, then seal/stain. Put a darker color on the new wood(about 2 shades), it should blend pretty well. Look at the job 2 weeks later & be proud of your efforts. Here is a job I did like that. The deck was 16 years old, replaced a bunch of boards, sanded the whole thing & applied 2-3 shades darker color on the new wood. There was still a dfference, the new boards should darken & the old boards will lighten when cured. Went back in 2 weeks when cured. Wa lah! Last 2 pics are after 2 weeks.

Edited June 23, 2009 by acegot
added

[PressurePros 248]

Lyle, you are a wood god. You can even make PTP look like cedar! I couldn't resist. You do nice work.

[acegot 14]

Thanks Ken, They call me Woody Sensei! LOL

Edited June 23, 2009 by acegot

[decker 14]

I will be working on a project with a somewhat similar situation.

4 year old previously stained cedar which is ugly. HO powerwashing (attempt to strip) made it worse. The HO has just put in new PT rails with aluminum bars in the middle.

I don't think curing is an option as I get the feeling they want it done asap.

Here's my plan:

-Strip everything

-Bleach the rails

-Brighten everything

-Sand with 60 grit on everything, extra attention to the rails

They want a cedar semi-transparent stain, but I am just wondering what the difference in look will be between the rails and deck - they are concerned about that. I tried to sell them on a two tone, but they were hesitant.

Here are my questions:

1) Will my plan work

2) Can anyone suggest a colour scheme, which takes into consideration the black aluminum (pretty sure its aluminum) rails?

-pending they don't go for two tone, would an extra coat of stain help blend it better (I would have use a different stain than my normal sikkens srd)?

3) What is your most efficient and effective method for covering up the rails to make sure they don't get damaged from the stripper?

Wood really appreciate some input.

Also:

Don't mean to hijack this thread, just thought it would be beneficial for everyone as it is a similar topic.

Let me know if I should start a new thread.

[acegot 14]

Decker, To protect the rails, throw a 9x12 canvas dropcloth over the rail & move it as you go. Those balusters are usually powder coated, very durable finish. Your plan sounds pretty good except maybe the bleach on the railing, unless you mean wood bleach(percarb). Then just use darker color on railing & tell the customer you cant match exactly, theyre' goingto get some two tone no matter what. Or you could use AC cedar-semi-trans on the deck & AC super-cedar ( has more pigment) on the rails, or AC Cedar semi with a little AC rustic brown added to it for the rails. See Pro Sealer Store for mat. colors. Here is a pic of a deck I built. Does their railing look like that.

Edited June 23, 2009 by acegot
Grammer repair

[RPetry 564]

Lyle, you are a wood god. You can even make PTP look like cedar! I couldn't resist. You do nice work.

Ken,

I think the wood in Lyle's pictures may be redwood or possibly douglas fir.

... Rick: Don't have the job yet, just thinking ahead for options. Money is good and time won't be a problem. As for sanders...my two orbitals and makita buffer burned up but I've bought new. I don't have belt sanders but not sure how I would utilize them. Seems like they all have 3" drums which is pretty useless IMO. What are you using?

Charlie,

Belt sanders are a lot more aggressive than random orbitals. We use them on occasion. Depending on the type and condition of the wood, a belt sander will possibly get down to new, bare wood faster and easier than RO's.

Edited June 23, 2009 by RPetry
addition

[bigchaz 157]

Looking at the AC cedar toner for the deck, should I go with super cedar on the new parts to blend it? Is that darker enough

[acegot 14]

Ken,

I think the wood in Lyle's pictures may be redwood or possibly douglas fir.

It's Redwood.

Charlie,

Belt sanders are a lot more aggressive than random orbitals. We use them on occasion. Depending on the type and condition of the wood, a belt sander will possibly get down to new, bare wood faster and easier than RO's.

If the deck is only 4 yrs. old a stand up RO 12x18 should work. Correct me if I'm wrong, are you guys talking about hand Ro's & belt sanders?.

[acegot 14]

Looking at the AC cedar toner for the deck, should I go with super cedar on the new parts to blend it? Is that darker enough

If you could get some wood samples that would be better. Get a new piece & an older one & do a brush out & see. I'm not a PTP expert, I dont know how the pigments soak in. What you mentioned could work, or a variation. Some times all I do is add a little raw umber(dark dark brown) or a little black, to darken a little which sometimes is better tha adding more of the same pignent. In your case you could possible add a little more semi-cedar & rustic brown(makes a great tint on toners) or just the r-brown added to the cedar toner. Wish I were there, I like stuff like that.

[RPetry 564]

If the deck is only 4 yrs. old a stand up RO 12x18 should work. Correct me if I'm wrong, are you guys talking about hand Ro's & belt sanders?.

Lyle,

Can't speak for Charlie but I was referring to hand sanders.

Interesting machine in your picture, that is a RO? Can you get 60 grit for it? What the frick is that giant brush attached to the handle?

Inquiring minds want to know!

[decker 14]

Lyle,

pretty much the same setup, except your rails look like cedar.

The rails on the job are actually pretty nice for PT.

If I cover the rails with a canvas, how do you get the parts in between the rails?

Also, if I do get stripper on the rails how badly would it discolour/damage them?

[PressurePros 248]

That's the type of sander we use. Its the big vibrating pad kind. I forget what they call them. I bought mine from a rental place.

[James 624]

It's much more difficult to blend new and old PT vs Cedar and Redwood. And even more difficult with the new type of PT with the old type . Older PT takes much more oil. Unless you use an oil that has a paint type pigment in it instead of the transoxide pig's.

[bigchaz 157]

If the deck is only 4 yrs. old a stand up RO 12x18 should work. Correct me if I'm wrong, are you guys talking about hand Ro's & belt sanders?.

Yea im talking about 5" and 6" RO sanders. Never seen anything like that beast before. Where do you acquire something like that and whats the learning curve without putting big lines in the deck?

[PressurePros 248]

Chaz, they are the easiest types of sanders to use. You can't mess up the wood even with 18 grit paper. They are not aggressive sanders.

[acegot 14]

Lyle,

Can't speak for Charlie but I was referring to hand sanders.

Interesting machine in your picture, that is a RO? Can you get 60 grit for it? What the frick is that giant brush attached to the handle?

Inquiring minds want to know!

Technically, its an orbital, round pads are ro, square or rectangular pads are orbital. you can get from like 16 grit to 100 grit paper & sanding screens from 60 to around 220grit. The brush goes around the bottom of the pad to contain dust for dust collection.