AC super cedar

[bigchaz 157]

Can't attach a picture from my phone but the super cedar deck I just finished took 6 gallons on a 14*12...the fuzzies are bright yellow, floor is almost black, rails looks unstained even with 2 coats...looks nothing even close in color to cedar semi.

Am I missing something here? Wood was 3 yrs old never stained. Ill come back tomorrow to see it again but its already pretty dry and I'm thinking this is gonna need to be stripped and redone.

is there a different balance of oils in the super cedar than the semis? It drinks like a timber oil and handles nothing at all like the semi-trans.

Anyone have experiance with the super cedar?

[acegot 14]

Light Brown with Toner is pretty nice. I call it Boner !

Hah! That is a good one Jim. Hmmm..., RS light brown with A-C toner... Let's see, how about "Little Boner"! Like it.

+1 Rick, you trying to tell us something! LOL

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Kevin,

To be honest, and quite frank, you do not have a clue as to what you are suggesting or even talking about.

Check out the stain polls here on TGS for the past several years. Do you think all these contractors have been fooling their customers over multiple years?

We have tested and tried various oil stains over the years. Baby oil still wins, hands down.

I'll assume your not meaning to insult but rather your just being defensive if not biased based on your business model. The polls haven't the foggiest effect on how long a deck job lasts or how financially effected customers are by models or a drying versus non drying method. Try being more specific to a point of contention rather than generalizing my statements as all being wrong or suggestive.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

I'm pretty much with Dan on many things here in that if we are mainly considering wet on wet then both the two product methodology and the heavyness of coats is just akin to sillyness and overkill...saying otherwise would be like saying muddy water don't wet wood compared to clean water. See both the products in question make use of a solvent. Reapplication of said solvent to either will disolve and mix with that which is uncured. (8 hr by some accord for AC, never for RS). Since I've delt with lots of linseed over the years on gun stocks, furniture, and the like I can assure that an 8hr dry is not needed to build up coatings due to skinnng/oxidizing at the surface.

...If talking about an actual coating, Once a coating skins you can count on it holding up subsequent coats whether its lite or heavy thus concentrating solids and pigments to a deeper richer look. I said it, Dan said it, I said it again.lol.

Now I'll just elaborate on that by saying that skinning over a 'coating' by way of heavy coating is generally a no no. If it is a catylizing type coating the coating itself creates heat that forces outgassing from the substructure itself besides the obvious solvent based carriers not being able to escape before thicker and thicker skinning takes place.(epoxy or urethane can fisheye). Such doesn't applY to our low bodied semitrans type wood stains even if their solids did cure the same(which they don't). They dry by oxygen being brung in by the metalic dryers. Linseed on its own does not cure/dry but rather it 'thickens'. Such thickening is mostly what causes us to be able to build up the look/evenness of a deck sooner than an actual cure. If on first coat you loose 50%+ of a products thinness due to spraying or evaporation over whatever minutes (or hour) then subsequent wet coat will thicken to some average between the two. Is main reason why stuff gets better looking. We are concentrating pigments and solids thus becoming more opaque.

Edited July 13, 2009 by MMI Enterprises

[James 624]

Rick, how about Large Boner !

[James 624]

So Kevin, what your saying is it's better to use a non-drying oils first then use a Linseed type to seal in the non-drying oil. And if do that first you will use less of the Linseed type product. And using to much of a Linseed type and building up coats is bad for exterior horizontal wood. Is that what you said ?

[RPetry 564]

Rick, how about Large Boner !

Diamond Jim,

Nah, you do not want to intimidate hen-pecked husband customers. "Lil' Boner" is very innocuous and may actually let them feel like a real man for a moment! Hah!

[MMI Enterprises 289]

So Kevin, what your saying is it's better to use a non-drying oils first then use a Linseed type to seal in the non-drying oil.

...nope didn't say that, not even between the lines did I say that. Instead of "first then use a" you can substitute "along with a". Think of the muddy water analogy or rather realize the staining product in question has a certain singular thinness built in and both the drying oil and non-drying oil is available to the wood. The wood will take/absorb the parrafinic as it sees fit. I do not prescribe to an idea of another product going deeper= better if that is where your at. Must be true to some point on some wood or some wood projects but I haven't seen it matter on a deck... In other words if it's sealed and looks good and lasts yer good to go. The two medium wet on wets of AC in my mind and experience is plenty of parrafinic for most wood. It is a myth/misnomer that our goal with AC, or RS for that matter, is that we will have a wetter/richer/glossier look hanging around after the job is good and dry/settled so I personally do not make any aim for building coats of linseed. I only mention for sake of Dan and Charlie's thoughts on heavy first versus lite first. You know AC's use of linseed is for a lock and that even a few coat is not very concerning on future maintenance ,..so don't play me..haha :)

And if do that first you will use less of the Linseed type product. And using to much of a Linseed type and building up coats is bad for exterior horizontal wood. Is that what you said ? ..see above..lol[/QUOTE]

James, why you not just try putting ac on first then after it sets up get in some highlites with rs colorant?.. yonk yonk

Pun aside I do see where your going with rs first then AC and but have to call it like I see it. Your using it as a more inexpensive filler/base hoping the ac will sit up higher and more even. My thought on that is that indeed I would rather have the linseed deeper and blended inside the wood than up top. Ac works fine in this regard. Your somewhat correct in prior statements about how linseed doesn't rebulk wood but it does get in pretty darn microscopically for my tastes (again experience taken from doing gun stocks with pure linseed). Perhaps attaching a synonym word such as 'rebulk/swell' could be used for novice ear? Truly I have no problem with your method I just find dueling more complex and labor intensive and not for me in practice. I just prefure the KISS methodology while actually working a job. Don't get me wrong as I have done what your doing on my own wood via experimentation. Dueling most any parrafinic with a drying type oil works to opaqueize (new word)/richen and overseal (new word) the wood. Same thing can be achomplished with dry on dry. Check it out..I'll give an example of a crazy tri method. On my kids swing set I got RS mixed with Omax on top of factoring colored PT. Looks pretty darn good..lol

All that said..none of us are very far apart here.. :)

[James 624]

Kevin , sometimes I can not decipher your points of view? Gee, it's really, really difficult to put down a coat of oil on the floor of a deck and let it sink in to get better results and a better looking deck and top coat it with something. I am and have been using these method for years with the use of different top coats with great success. Putting a non-drying oil first works much better! Filler up and topper off. KISS !

I am not using it as a less $$ filler but it is! I have done it for years as a better way to preserve the wood! The more and higher percentage of a product being put down as a first coat(non-drying oil) . The easer the second coat will work! KISS. What can be simpler than that ?I am not looking for your approval. I am just letting go of some methods that work.

Edited July 14, 2009 by James

[MMI Enterprises 289]

James,

"What can be simpler than that?"

Answer= using one product..

But hey if your only doing one coat of each, and your doing it wet on wet, and the two individual manufactures warrant their product being used as such, or scopes of work in any contracts with customers (residential or commercial) list the two product, and the color outcome is predictable enough then sure your labor would be close to exact same as using only the one product and so the question why not might be in order? Seems almost too many things for the average joe to consider so they use a single product. Your answer to why dual them products together then is because it's 'better'. You believe it, which I respect, but I want to know how its truly better. Are you saying that if you total the stain used on your two discrete coats and hypthetically remove it from deck to a mix bucket and then reapply a mixed up version via two coats that you would have left over compared to your dual method?. In other words you get more in the wood via your method.. If that is what you think or know as true then I ask why is going deeper better when the ac lock is plenty to make the product last as long as some have seemed to testify. So far it sounds like your just recognizing that two wet on wets is better in general for a richer/better look (due to thickening/concentrating).

[PressurePros 248]

I'm still drying to figure out when Jim decided Ready Seal was not a good enough product for decks by itself. Jim, I'm saying this tongue-in-cheek and with a grin to break your stones, but the question is one I believe valid.

[James 624]

I've been doing stuff for 10 years with RS and other products. The wood type and it's age dictates what I do not the sealer. Knowing how to manipulate a sealer to function better and achieve a better results is fun and a challenge. RS clear is a great foundation in sum instances. Sorta like a primer in the paint wold. It's a great foundation,I can add Pigment to it to make a BGA product, thin it or add drying oils to it or just use it like is.

[RPetry 564]

... It's a great foundation,I can add Pigment to it to make a BGA product, thin it or add drying oils to it or just use it like is.

Oh sweet Jesus. Hope Peirce does not read this thread, poor old guy will demise with cardiac arrest. Baby oil is versatile, enough said.