AC super cedar

[bigchaz 157]

Can't attach a picture from my phone but the super cedar deck I just finished took 6 gallons on a 14*12...the fuzzies are bright yellow, floor is almost black, rails looks unstained even with 2 coats...looks nothing even close in color to cedar semi.

Am I missing something here? Wood was 3 yrs old never stained. Ill come back tomorrow to see it again but its already pretty dry and I'm thinking this is gonna need to be stripped and redone.

is there a different balance of oils in the super cedar than the semis? It drinks like a timber oil and handles nothing at all like the semi-trans.

Anyone have experiance with the super cedar?

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Kevin, these are always wet-on-wet coats. I guess that it is also a matter of semantics. To me, "wet" is anything that has not started curing.

Go back and reread my description. The steps have two coats and you can see the difference between the steps and the wooden patio. The one coat (which was heavy) is blotchy and light.

"That could sit for an hour while we do everything else. "

Gotcha there on mentioning an 'hour'.. ..and yes its semantics or hard to say at what point a natural oil product can be considered as dry enough to where it will slow down penetration of the next wet on wet on wet. In the heat an hour can be enough to consider the procedure almost as a dry on dry procedure especially when the first coat is light. Soon as there is any tack I suppose ya start to leave the term of wet on wet behind. You can for sure feel the thickening difference when back brushing AC an hour along with a microfiber pad so it becomes more of a coat then a penetration..(try it over an acrylic sometime if ya don't believe.. haha).

But yup if ya know ya got a porous one a lite coat wll work..

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Good answer. I've realized I no longer read posts over 3 sentences. How does light coat followed by heavy coat compare do doing a heavy coat first and then misting a light coat when you leave?

Excellent question!!... I vote it's about the same as it's about the pigment eveneness and opaqueness with AC..

[PressurePros 249]

Kevin, most drying oils don't really cure in wood for at least 8 hours. They may appear dry but they are not cured. Successive coats would still form a covalent bond with the coat beneath it until you get to the point of diminishing return.

[plainpainter 217]

I dual coated some deck boards today with A.C. - I stained two areas, after the second area was done with the first coat, the first area was easily dry enough in the hot sun after 30 minutes to walk on with flip-flops.

Charlie - the old adage about using oil based products is to never go 'thin' over 'thick' although this has more to do with oil based trim enamel paints - I guess you could take some parallels with deck staining. A thinner application up front has more time to exhaust the spirit fumes thus 'settling' faster - and perhaps does not penetrate as deep as a thicker first coat - allowing a semi-cured 'trap' holding up the second application and not allowing as deep a penetration - thus saving on product, yet achieving a nice even tone on the surface.

Personally today - I hand brushed deck boards today {my airless is in the shop} with globs of stain on the first coat and then after the stain 'settled' for 30-40 minutes, top coated it with another coat and spread the stain out as much as it could go - the stain glided on in comparison.

One thing I learned - if you inundate A.C. SemiSolid on the first pass with old pressure treated - you can achieve a Semi-transparent look. And newer pressure treated there will be excess that can be backpadded off.

[RPetry 564]

If they tend to disagree I would think it relates more to them having never experienced enough other options and a carefree attitude towards emptying their wallets to a 'maintain it more often' type busness model rather than it relating to anything of a comparison of product durability/depletion over the long run. ...

Kevin,

To be honest, and quite frank, you do not have a clue as to what you are suggesting or even talking about.

Check out the stain polls here on TGS for the past several years. Do you think all these contractors have been fooling their customers over multiple years?

We have tested and tried various oil stains over the years. Baby oil still wins, hands down.

[plainpainter 217]

I think 'baby' oil stains would be the perfect maintenance coat type stain after an initial curing oil type restoration.

[James 625]

An issue with AC is when the wood needs more oil the first coat does not go deep enough and the linseed starts to set up and the second coat can not go beyond filling out and making the linseed coat look even. This is why I use RS as a first coat. Why not have a solid content of 87% oil go first with out something setting up and top off and seal in with something. Gee ? makes too much since?

You have to know your math when doing and using sealers and SqFTage. Solid content makes a huge difference

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

An issue with AC is when the wood needs more oil the first coat does not go deep enough and the linseed starts to set up and the second coat can not go beyond filling out and making the linseed coat look even. This is why I use RS as a first coat. Why not have a solid content of 87% oil go first with out something setting up and top off and seal in with something. Gee ? makes too much since?

You have to know your math when doing and using sealers and SqFTage. Solid content makes a huge difference

Makes entirely too much sense.....go sit in the corner! Bad Jimbo! No bleach for a week! :lol:

Beth

[plainpainter 217]

An issue with AC is when the wood needs more oil the first coat does not go deep enough and the linseed starts to set up and the second coat can not go beyond filling out and making the linseed coat look even. This is why I use RS as a first coat. Why not have a solid content of 87% oil go first with out something setting up and top off and seal in with something. Gee ? makes too much since?

You have to know your math when doing and using sealers and SqFTage. Solid content makes a huge difference

In a 'wet on wet' coat style application how much is the linseed oil really going to set up? Not to mention the linseed oil can only migrate so far down - the mineral oil component of the A.C. stain will migrate around the linseed oils of the first application and the linseed oils of the second application will fill the remaining voids and any excess will remain on the surface.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

On really dry wood, AC absorbs pretty fast, you can hit it again and it's not an issue. In many cases when you are done with a first application on a dry floor, it's ready for more.

I will add one VERY VERY important note here about applying AC over other curing products like WT....you really need to strip the WT first, or the AC cannot properly dive. You'll get drying issues. Given that, this would apply to going over Cabots ATO, Sikkens SRD or other Linseed/Tung/Alkyd types of things. Break the barrier.

BOOYAA!

Beth

[plainpainter 217]

Are you saying, Beth, you can't maintain A.C. for future reapplications as well? A.C. is linseed/alkyd type of product as well.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Are you saying, Beth, you can't maintain A.C. for future reapplications as well? A.C. is linseed/alkyd type of product as well.

Not saying that at all. I am saying very specifically that there is an issue with applying it over OTHER installed brands.

Beth

[James 625]

Dan, I can tell what works better by actually doing and observing what I have done. I take the theory and produce the results. I use AC as a finish coat or a top coat. I know how much oil should go into the wood. I wood be concern when using AC on mahog or hardwoods in general( not Ipe) because of all the cracks and splits and how the linseed dives in and around these areas. Soft woods are a different scenario how linseed works and migrates.

Linseed does not rebulk wood fibers it fills voids and hardens.

[plainpainter 217]

Dan, I can tell what works better by actually doing and observing what I have done. I take the theory and produce the results. I use AC as a finish coat or a top coat. I know how much oil should go into the wood. I wood be concern when using AC on mahog or hardwoods in general( not Ipe) because of all the cracks and splits and how the linseed dives in and around these areas. Soft woods are a different scenario how linseed works and migrates.

Linseed does not rebulk wood fibers it fills voids and hardens.

This is about the point I hop off the 'woodie' train to the 'I really don't care' stop. Jim - A.C. stain is a composite of both Mineral Oil and Siccative type oils such as linseed and tung. Why would you further mess with things? Not to mention - I experimented with applying timberoil as a first coat, and what I found out was that the wood got saturated and left no room at top for an additional coat of stain.

As to the Mahogany - are you putting some time lapse photography? When I applied woodtux - I sloshed on a puddle and let it sit for 15 minutes and then lambs wooled the excess off - the wood soaked in the linseed oil.

I am really tired of all this stuff - it doesn't make a hill's beans worth of difference, show me a hardwood deck that looks perfect for a recoat after 3 years and then I will listen. Otherwise all these discussions are 6 or one half dozen of the other as far as I am concerned. And perhaps parafinnics are maintaining the integrity of the wood - but it's appearance that matters to homeowners. And so far parafinnics look like butt 3 months after application on my tests.

[PressurePros 249]

Jim, why do you need a topcoat with the Ready Seal? Doesn't that change the dynamic of your future mainentance?

[bigchaz 157]

AC has non drying oils in it already so why not just do two coats of that like everyone has noted provides the best appearance?

[James 625]

Charlie, because you have to understand what the linseed is doing in the first ap. Do you want all of the product say 87% with RS getting sucked up by the wood fibers or 50% doing it and with 25% filling voids and incapsulating wood fibers. Which do you think wood produce the best result for wood preservation and ease of the next or second application ?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

When in doubt, get a board, wash and prep it, and try what Jim suggests. Apply RS, the put the AC on top, see if you like it.

Beth

[James 625]

Light Brown with Toner is pretty nice. I call it Boner !

[plainpainter 217]

This all sounds like too much work. Two coats of A.C. wet on wet is as far as I will go. These are just decks not Smithsonian period type furniture..

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

This all sounds like too much work. Two coats of A.C. wet on wet is as far as I will go. These are just decks not Smithsonian period type furniture..

If they were, you would not treat them that way either....I grew up around that stuff....

Beth

[plainpainter 217]

If they were, you would not treat them that way either....I grew up around that stuff....

Beth

Beth I am not literally talking about applying deck stains to fine furniture pieces. I am just saying all this talk about the perfect combination of deck staining procedure is pretty worthless, imo. These are decks for crying out loud. If a stain looks fairly decent at the two year mark - I think we've accomplished our goals. If woodtux didn't darken - some of my work after two years is perfectly acceptable for New England Weather. I ain't going to start second guessing A.C. now - customers will get wet-on-wet coats on the horizontals - and I will call it a day. There ain't no magic to this business. We stain 'em - and people pay us - and hopefully they'll pay us again in a couple years down the road. My professionalism stems from the fact that I use low pressure - ph balance - and sand/defur my work. As well as using a quality product that is better than off the shelf stuff at paintstores and big box stores - after that I think people may think we're lunatics if we start going into pre-treatments of parafinnics and/or multiple trips back to subsequently coat a deck. I think for the most part - folks want us out of the hair.

[RPetry 564]

Light Brown with Toner is pretty nice. I call it Boner !

Hah! That is a good one Jim. Hmmm..., RS light brown with A-C toner... Let's see, how about "Little Boner"! Like it.

[James 625]

Dan , just do something! Your the one that over thinks without results. I can give answers with and how things work because of proven results. It's not difficult! Or just follow the directions on some can. Take the theory and put something to work and make it happen.Stop your forever whining about products !

[acegot 14]

hah! That is a good one jim. Hmmm..., rs light brown with a-c toner... Let's see, how about "little boner"! Like it.

+10 lol