When to say "NO"!

[RPetry 564]

We have been getting some interesting jobs this year. Estimate for an ipe' wrap around porch and sm. cedar deck and pergola on another structure on the property done this past April.

Got a call late last week saying "Do it". Ok, but a catch. Please come out and give an estimate on cleaning and staining my cedar siding. See 1st picture.

Met with the owner, discussed things, and tried to convince the owner not to touch the cedar siding. The guy is a commercial real estate developer, had to go off to a meeting, so I had only 15 minutes with him.

Emphatically told him "No", do not touch this cedar. Its perfect as is.

This cedar is from an Amish barn in Pa., estimated to be between 60 and 80 years old. It is very old growth rough sawn cedar and still full of natural tannin. It may have been stained or even painted decades in the past, hard to tell now.

No ground contact, and the interior of the home is similar looking wood.

See the 2nd pic. Mesquite door, the wood is very old and imported from Mexico. Same wood is used on doors in the interior.

Asked me to do a test spot in a out of the way place. See the 3rd pic. Bleach and soap mix, dried with a hair dryer, and RS natural cedar and light brown applied. Came out black, but that is the cedar tannins, and will settle down to true color in a day or two.

Comments? My gut tells me to leave this wood as is, a cleaning and staining is not needed or warranted.

There is some work that you just want to say NO!

[Adrian 155]

It does look really nice and "aged". I can see your point though.

It cleaned up nice and agree that the color will lean over a day or two.

On the other hand, it looks like about an 9- 12k$$ job.( just taking a stab)

That is worth considering too.

So basically I'm no help at all.

Edited September 23, 2009 by Adrian

[RPetry 564]

It does look really nice and "aged". I can see your point though.

It cleaned up nice and agree that the color will lean over a day or two.

On the other hand, it looks like about an 9- 12k$$ job.( just taking a stab)

That is worth considering too.

So basically I'm no help at all.

Adrian,

Thanks! I'm either a fool or a designer!

Seriously, this wood, IMO, is just golden. We do not have many structures here in NJ with such great looking and old growth wood. Being that the interior is the same, unadulterated appearance, I just cannot fathom a need for restoring the exterior. This cedar will last another 60 - 80 years without intervention. I think!

I cannot improve on this. See pic.

[plainpainter 217]

It's alot like many of the cedar shaked homes by the beach where they just let it weather silver grey.

[RPetry 564]

It's alot like many of the cedar shaked homes by the beach where they just let it weather silver grey.

Daniel,

Yes. The archetypical "New England" look. When the shakes start rotting, they just replace the bad courses. Takes a few years to even out in color, but have seen it many times in the Hampton's, where money is no object.

But this is really good, old growth, cedar. I don't want to change it, even for 9 - 10 K. I do not think it is necessary or needed. Sometimes its not the money, its the wood. And letting history take its course.

[PressurePros 248]

Give him my number, Rick. I have no such moral discourse. LOL.

[topcoat 14]

Rick

Ten years ago I used to vow that I would never paint cedar. We have done it many, many times in the past ten years. When that cherry was broken, I swore we would never paint mahogany, which we do on every job now. New wood is one thing. Old wood is very much another. I would love it if my house looked like that. It sure does call into question your responsibility as a woodie. We both know that if you dont do it, some jamokey will do it for $400 and wreck the place forever. If you do it, at least it will be done properly and thoughtfully with a wood loving sensibility and appreciation for the sacred species that you are preserving. Ultimately, I agree with you, it is a big mistake to mess with that stuff. They don't grow em like that anymore. Just dont tell him that he could pull that stuff off and sell it for about $9/lf. Next thing you know that badboy is wrapped in vinyl.

[RPetry 564]

Scott and Ken,

Hah! Great responses. Now we get down to the quick...

Give him my number, Rick. I have no such moral discourse. LOL.

Admit it, yes you do... Ken, you have been around long enough, and even though a hard nose businessman, still appreciate unique and rare wood. Can't fool this old salt!

Rick

... I would love it if my house looked like that. It sure does call into question your responsibility as a woodie. ... Ultimately, I agree with you, it is a big mistake to mess with that stuff. They don't grow em like that anymore. Just dont tell him that he could pull that stuff off and sell it for about $9/lf. ...

Scott,

Thanks. Enough said. The customer probably paid more than that for the wood, but it does not matter. The right thing does.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Rick,

I disagree, but not from the standpoint of money, I think you would be doing the wood a favor by cleaning it and oiling it with RS. I really do!

Beth

[RPetry 564]

Rick,

I disagree, but not from the standpoint of money, I think you would be doing the wood a favor by cleaning it and oiling it with RS. I really do!

Beth

Beth,

Really, are you sure? This old growth cedar has been hanging off of a Amish barn for 60 to 80 years. The interior of the home is finished and is of like appearance. If this cedar has lasted this long, without care, why not another few decades?

I'll agree, most of the wood we deal with today is "young" growth, and needs help from the environment. Even ipe' or true red mahogany, it is not the same old growth of years gone by.

But this wood has been on a barn for much longer than you or I have been alive. It looks its age, but that is the history and romance of the wood.

If it lasted this long, it will last another few decades. Guess this was kind of a stupid thread, I say let it be.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

It's up to you.....

Beth

[Tonyg 14]

Rick,

I disagree, but not from the standpoint of money, I think you would be doing the wood a favor by cleaning it and oiling it with RS. I really do!

Beth

I agree. I like the way it looks now but fresh oil will only preserve the wood better. Not every HO likes a natural patina and ultimately we are to serve the interests and preferences of the customer.

[RPetry 564]

It's up to you.....

Beth

Beth,

Yes it is. I say NO. I'll call Ken and he can do it.

Just don't use a stain where the owner spells "fax", instead of "facts". Hah!

[PressurePros 248]

Beth,

Yes it is. I say NO. I'll call Ken and he can do it.

Just don't use a stain where the owner spells "fax", instead of "facts". Hah!

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Rick, when I first read your post and saw the picture I was like.. What the hell is Petry ranting about.. then I looked at the wood and yes, my inner woody saw the beauty of the au natural. If cleaning and oiling that wood borders on moral turpitude for you, I can pick up the project in mid October.

[RPetry 564]

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Rick, when I first read your post and saw the picture I was like.. What the hell is Petry ranting about.. then I looked at the wood and yes, my inner woody saw the beauty of the au natural. If cleaning and oiling that wood borders on moral turpitude for you, I can pick up the project in mid October.

Ken,

Hah! It's all yours but I think you will have second thoughts. The job is in Pennington, NJ. Call me if you are serious.

The ipe' and cedar (not on the shown house) are mine. As a caveat. we go first! So don't mess up my ipe'!

[PressurePros 248]

Yeah that's about an hour each way.. little bit further than I'd like to travel but if he is paying you, I know he can afford me.. ;-)

I have an office day tomorrow. I'll give you a ring.

PS: RS on an ipe deck sitting under a house that needs a percarb clean. Yeah no chance I'll mess that up. :eek:

[RPetry 564]

Yeah that's about an hour each way.. little bit further than I'd like to travel but if he is paying you, I know he can afford me.. ;-) ...

Ken,

OK, tit for tat. We did that WoodZotic ipe' job in the neighborhood a few years ago. Guess he didn't like my attitude, never called for maintenance!

Yeah, no pricing on the ipe' and cedar, thats mine! Call me on my cell, will be in Moorestown on another ipe'/cedar job.

PS: RS on an ipe deck sitting under a house that needs a percarb clean. Yeah no chance I'll mess that up. :eek:

Hah! I would certainly hope not. Look, the job is all yours, but trust me, I'll talk the customer out of it!

[James 624]

Rick , Wood like that looks Kool but there comes a point when the homer has to decide to save it! I do know the option to clean that and maintain the rustic look . Give me a shout if you want.

[Adrian 155]

Beth,

Just don't use a stain where the owner spells "fax", instead of "facts". Hah!

Oh MAN, I just cracked a rib on that one Rick.

coffee through the nose down onto my Cindy Crawford tee shirt.

By the way, what is your facts # ?

[plainpainter 217]

Rick - couldn't you just oil it with a clear and not wash it at all - thus preserving the rusticness and the integrity both at the same time?

[RPetry 564]

... By the way, what is your facts # ?

Adrian,

Hah, good one! I think it would be in Tom's best interest to refrain from posting on public internet boards.

Rick - couldn't you just oil it with a clear and not wash it at all - thus preserving the rusticness and the integrity both at the same time?

Daniel,

I'm thinking along those same lines. Maybe a very light bleach cleaning, with spigot pressure rinse, not sure but will do some testing when we're up there to restore the ipe' and cedar deck/pergola.

I just don't want to destroy the character of that old barn wood.

[plainpainter 217]

Rick - how about experimenting with ammonium quaterniums instead of bleach/percarbs. I've heard they will kill the algae/mildew without changing the character of the wood.

[RPetry 564]

Rick - how about experimenting with ammonium quaterniums instead of bleach/percarbs. I've heard they will kill the algae/mildew without changing the character of the wood.

Daniel,

This 80 yr. old growth barn cedar is not the type of job one "experiments" on. Any serious screw up and your profit is toast. And you don't replace any of this wood at Home Depot.

[Tonyg 14]

Rick - how about experimenting with ammonium quaterniums instead of bleach/percarbs. I've heard they will kill the algae/mildew without changing the character of the wood.

Dan, I've tried the Consan Triple Action 20 ( www.consan.biz ) - It will not produce the desired results of eliminating the mildew. It may kill it but you can't tell the difference afterward. I would assume this is the same type of product you are talking about.

I do add it to my HW mix as a sales pitch though.

[JFife 14]

1) Rick, I do want that Med. Red----sorry, just been busy and haven't got around to sending you an email. Thanks, and I'll get with you here soon.

2) Regarding test stain samples. Perhaps it is due to tannins, perhaps not. Attached are pics of 6yr old log siding stained with RS. This was my last job with RS, just too confusing of a product for me. The first two pics are samples of Med. Brown mixed 50/50 with Light Brown. And yes, these pics were taken several days after initial app. We waited and waited for color to "settle down", etc. so HO could see what final color would look like. We ended up going with Light Brown (3rd pic). This was what it looked like upon application. The 4th pic is after a few days. The LB color shifted. The MB did not. Now compare this MB pic to the one you just posted of that clear cedar decking. THIS is the type of thing that bothers me about RS. Final appearance is a total crapshoot. Anyways, I know the thread is about the barn. But your test spot pics reminded me of my final RS job 4yrs ago.

3) Strip and stain the guy's barn!! Why??? Because he wants you to!!!! Simple as that! If he is like me (and millions of others), he hates the faded gray look. Perhaps he could care less about preserving the historical value of gray wood....he's probably saying to himself, "IT'S JUST WOOD!!" Like someone else said, if this is what he wants, he's just going to find someone else that will do him a crappy job. So why not give him the service and quality he (and the home) deserves??

[plainpainter 217]

Rick has found a way to make money using/selling Readyseal - kudos for him! What works for him works. We all have to find our own path in the end, I couldn't make readyseal work. But then again from looking at Rick's work and looking at the readyseal website - it seems they have a more complete color collection - where as I am finding that A.C. needs constant custom mixing to get a good color - the 'stock' colors are just too restrictive.