Ipe' stain longevity

[RPetry 564]

The more ipe' we do, the more I am convinced that letting the wood naturally age and weather is the best course, prior to applying a finish that will last for any appreciable time.

Case in point. On the way home yesterday, stopped by to look at a small ipe' job we stained 9 months ago. As can be seen in the last two pictures, this ipe' was moldy, dirty, and very weathered to the point of surface degradation. The owner stated that the wood had not been cleaned or stained in at least 5 years.

At the 9 month mark, this ipe' looks terrific. The stain pigment has held up remarkably well. The wood is near perfect. The stain used was Ready Seal medium red, two light applications on the floor and a single application on all vertical wood.

Edited June 5, 2010 by RPetry

[Greg R 82]

We did one last year with Cedar semi AC that I saw again yesterday and it still had alot of color to it as well. We really soaked the floor with it as nothing else in the past was holding up very well.

[James 625]

The success in dealing with Upe' is directly related to how much it looses of it's natural defenses before a stain is put on . Which takes a year and better with two ! Putting anything on in the first year stops the natural process and your stain from having success. Which is limited already.

IF YOU STRIP A UPE DECK THAT WAS FINISHED IMMEDIATELY AFTER BEING BUILT LET IT AGE !!!!

[RPetry 564]

The success in dealing with Upe' is directly related to how much it looses of it's natural defenses before a stain is put on . Which takes a year and better with two ! Putting anything on in the first year stops the natural process and your stain from having success. Which is limited already.

IF YOU STRIP A UPE DECK THAT WAS FINISHED IMMEDIATELY AFTER BEING BUILT LET IT AGE !!!!

Yup. Agree wholeheartedly. I think the reason this ipe' has held pigment so well is that it was left to weather and naturally age for 5+ years. I noticed a remarkable gain in stain longevity on my own ipe' deck when I stripped it and let it weather for a full year.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

This is fast becoming a trade technique among the more experienced applicators.

Ipe can survive for up to 50 years without any type of protection and an occasional cleaning just to remove the buildup of environmental growth.

We also agree that allowing Ipe to weather for at least 6 months is better for the application of a product to have a decent longevity.

Ipe is naturally endowed with extractives that in certain parts of the tree are nearly impervious to any type of sealer.

Other parts are generally just stubborn because of the porous structure and its open or closed state at the time of harvest.

We completed a maintenance this year of a deck that sits adjacent to a pool and the deck looked pretty darn good considering the conditions present. A light wash was all the was needed and a recoat using Armstrong Clark made it come back to life.

The deck was allowed time to weather due to a couple of circumstances (construction and our schedule) which played in the sealants favor.

See Dirt Run! - Ipe deck sealed with Armstrong Clark Sierra Redwood blend

Rod!~

[plainpainter 217]

Isnt' this true of all woods and not just ipe?

[acegot 14]

I'm not going to dispute what anyone has posted on this thread. But, with certain products & procedures as discussed in other IPE' threads you can achieve a good enough result. Example: A new Ipe deck was built & Wolmans F&P was put on when deck was new. (Dont know how it was prepped) I was called in the beginning of the second year. About 8 boards had been replaced, I stripped the whole deck with F-18 & stained with WTW & after a year you cant tell the new boards from the original boards, they held the stain the same. (Deck gets full sun) The deck pictured is very dirty due to large dog tracking mud on it. Will clean & recoat in a few weeks.

[acegot 14]

Here is Cumaru hardwood, built in Sept.2009, cleaned with F-18, brightened with oxalic in mid Nov. '09. Went through rain season(21 inches), It greyed out, Then in May cleaned again with F-18, again brightened with oxalic, then prepped with sanding brush, then stained with 50/50 mix of Wood Tux Warm Honey Gold & Armstrong Clark Super Cedar for what I call "Super Tux Gold"

[Chappy 138]

last year when I talked to Jake, he said not to use AC on hardwoods. Did i misunderstand? I didnt get to question him further. I tried some super cedar on a piece of scrap and it didnt last 3 months before there was no pigment left. in fact i had three pieces, one with Wood tux, one with ready seal and the other with AC. the wood tux is the only one with any color left after 7 months.

[acegot 14]

I primarily use Wood Tux on hardwoods 'cause it consistantly holds up better than anything else I've used on a hardwood. The W-Tux / AC mix is an experiment to see how it will hold up. Others have had luck with RS & AC. Jake wanted to be causes on the hardwood application not knowing fully how it would hold up on hardwoods, unlike the proven track record on softwoods. I'm going to do a test on a hardwood soon with multiple brands.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Gotta wonder what the compatibility of the mildewcides and solvents are between WTW and A/C.

Sometimes, solvents can cancel out the mildewcides making the deck turn black from the mold feast that ensues.

Let us know when you go back to do maintenance.

Rod!~

[acegot 14]

Gotta wonder what the compatibility of the mildewcides and solvents are between WTW and A/C.

Sometimes, solvents can cancel out the mildewcides making the deck turn black from the mold feast that ensues.

Let us know when you go back to do maintenance.

Rod!~

I'll report on my findings.

Edited June 8, 2010 by acegot
typo

[James 625]

Callyfornyah doesn't get the mildew like the Colonies do. I never herd of the solvents canceling a mildewcide or something out? Solvents are the carriers of stuff and the solid reducers. I cut product all the time to reduce solid content and mix and match.

[Celeste 341]

Mildew will grow on ANYTHING over here - between the pollen, the infinite number of bugs & birds pooping everywhere - things don't even have to be natural for mildew to begin (vinyl!) I have to agree with the Diamond here - don't see a solvent canceling out a mildewcide - it's what pigment is made with. LOL, maybe it's the LACK of solvents that contributes to the mildew problem - stupid VOC laws :) (I giggle everytime I think of Ryan's cow fart post in a VOC conversation!)

[weathershield 14]

In the way of explanation: This is an IPE board approximately nine months old that we took from a deck under construction. We brought back several pieces to test colors. The boards have been in the shop and never exposed to the elements.

We stripped two of these boards with a mild Sodium Hydroxide, Sodium Metasilicate and NP-9 solution. The boards were then neutralized with Oxalic Acid and dried in the sun.

The first test colors we used were A/C Rustic Brown and A/C Cedar Tone. Neither color held up very well.

On this board we applied a light coat of A/C Mahogany, ragged it off, and applied a light second coat (probably equal to one heavy coat).

This board has been exposed to the Arizona sun at 5500 feet for over 6 months with a southern exposure.

We are going to try the same experiment with A/C Super Cedar and will report on the results of both colors.

[weathershield 14]

The IPE deck boards used for the test were 9 months old and taken as samples from a deck under construction. The boards were kept in the shop and never exposed to the elements.

The reason for the longevity is the greatly increased amount of red transparent iron oxides in the formula.

This is a sample of test board exposed to the Arizona sun at 5500 feet elevation with a southern exposure. The test board is now in the ninth month with little perceptible color change (See previous photographs) I will send additional photographs as the test continues.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Is that board lying flat all the time or leaning and nearly vertical?

Beth

[weathershield 14]

Beth:

The board is on a roof facing 40 degrees south.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Again the question: Was it laying flat (horizontally) or standing (vertically) during the exposure period?

Reason why we ask is that there is absolutely no graying of the exposed wood which at 6 weeks should be totally gray....IF it was laying flat.

IF it was kept vertical, this explains the lack of graying.

Rod!~

[weathershield 14]

It was on a 40 degree vertical plane on the roof.

[weathershield 14]

Good call. I will lay it flat (horizontal) and see it there is any difference.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Your horizontal is always the first to fail, so placing the board flat is the best test for deck longevity in your climate.

You should see that unsealed area weather pretty fast if the board is horizontal. In fact, I know you will.

Beth

[James 625]

Rain, mildew, snow is what kills hardwood finishes. Not the sun or heat. The test out there doesn't represent the conditions in the North East.I have 5 year old Ipe verticals that look good.The age of the wood is a consideration. A five year old Ipe deck that is finished will last longer then one done that is one year old because more product can be put down. Takes longer to erode away. . The more pigment in the product does work better than light colors because of the eroding factor. The dark colors get lighter.

[weathershield 14]

By way of clarification...............This is where the board is being tested. I take it down for purposes of photographing it. We are in our monsoon season now and the board is rained on almost every day.

We also get snow in the winter months.

This side of the roof faces South.

Edited August 18, 2010 by weathershield

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Jim,

I was not paying attention to the stained area, it was the BARE area that got my attention. You know as well as I do how rapidly the SUN will cause it to turn gray when it is exposed lumber. That's what UV exposure does...turns the wood gray.

Beth

[RPetry 564]

...You know as well as I do how rapidly the SUN will cause it to turn gray when it is exposed lumber. That's what UV exposure does...turns the wood gray.

Beth

There is the catch. Mark Smith stated that he "cleaned" this ipe' board with a very light caustic and acid. It is a new, unexposed piece of ipe' directly from the mill. Enough said.

Unless you beat the bejesus out of the wood with strong caustics and acids, there is still going to be a boatload of natural oils and resins in the ipe' surface to resist and lengthen any UV or "greying". It's a natural fact of the wood. This is why we stress to our ipe' customers to allow the wood to weather at least one, and better yet two years prior to applying any finish.

We closed on a large ipe' job on Monday. It's 7 yrs. old, never been stained, and that is just primo wood. Enough of the extractives in the the ipe' have weathered out that we can get a decent amount of oil to penetrate into the substrate. And last more than 6 to 8 months.

Gotta' pick a bone with Diamond Jim. It is my observation that UV from sunlight is the primary agent in pigment/coloration degradation of any exterior wood, including ipe'.

Here is a picture of a 2 x 4 ipe' board, 6 years old, that has never been exposed to direct sun, snow, rain, nor moon. It has enough natural defences / pigment, to laugh at the sun, rain, snow, and hail for at least a year here in the NE and certainly more than 6 weeks.

BTW, the 5/4 x 6 ipe' below the board is 5 month old Defy waterbased for hardwoods. In a nutshell, forgive the expression, but it sucks. Oils do better than this on ipe'.

Ipe' is one unusual wood.