Very New!!!!!

[metcalfec 14]

Hello everyone, thanks for the very informative web-site. As the title states I am very new to the business, I have one successful year in mostly just winged it last year. I am looking to buy some training manuals or DVD's relating to the residential and some commercial cleaning. ie. decks and fences, driveways, patios and house washing. I would also like to do some small business such as store fronts, garbage bins etc. And last but not least get into some fleet work. If you have any training manuals or DVD's or know where I could get some I would gladly purchase them.

Thanks

Chris

[Paul Kassander 26]

I would start by doing some searches on You tube. From that you can get an idea of many different ways to wash.

Each application will have its own method so read up on it too. For example wood is low pressure 1500psi and lower and typically with a wide fan. Trucks will use a higher pressure usually between 1500-2500 and concrete will usually be 3500-4000 psi with heat.

[metcalfec 14]

Thats where I will start then! Any suggestions for a Google/Youtube search?

Thanks,

Chris

[acegot 14]

On you tube in the search, just type in the name RE; power wash deck, concrete, surface cleaner etc. & they will come up in groups on the right hand side. Happy viewing & reading in the New Year!!

Edited January 4, 2011 by acegot
added text

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Do lots of searching and reading here too, and whatever you do, don't be afraid to ask questions.

Enjoy!

Beth :cup:

[Doug Rucker 31]

Welcome aboard and best of luck to you. Great people here and all willing to help.

[metcalfec 14]

Thank you all! I am already feeling better about the season ahead. I will start with a tough question, I have created a price list for various jobs, luckily for me there is no competition in my area, problem with that is I have no idea if I am charging to much or too less. I will give you a couple of examples of jobs I completed last season with the quotes and you tell me if I am in the ball park please? Don't forget I am in southern Canada on the American border!

1. Deck approx. size 576sq. ft. = I charged $235.00

2. 16' Boat (heavy moss) = $40.00

3. Car lot (300 vehicles) = $5.00/car

Thanks

Chris

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

1. Deck approx. size 576sq. ft. = I charged $235.00

2. 16' Boat (heavy moss) = $40.00

3. Car lot (300 vehicles) = $5.00/car

You'll be out of business in no time with prices that low. @ 40 cents a sqft to wash and seal, that does not even cover the cost of the product you apply.

Figure this: Average coverage rate for sealant (stain etc.) is 100-150 sqft/gal.

you will need 3.84 gallons minimum (lets say four to add in a fudge factor)

4 gallons means you will need to buy a 5 gallon size and lets just avg. your price at $185.00 for that 5'er.

$235.00-185.00=$50.00 left.

It takes an experienced person about 3 hours to wash that size of a deck

It will take approx. 4 to seal it including any prep and masking

that is 7 hours worth of labor.

$50.00/7 hours = $7.15/hour

This does not even go into figuring in for fuel, chemicals, plastic, tape or any other necessities to do the job.

By the time you are done, you have made less than a waitress makes without tip.

Now lets look at your other prices.

16' boat with heavy moss: $40.00

How long do you think this takes? 1-1/2? maybe 2 hours? (did you forget set up and break down time?)

Did you include time to drive to the site? fuel? chemicals if any?

After all those costs how much are you making?

How many boats will you do at any one location? 3-4?

Lets go with 4. Thats $160.00

Average machine will burn through 1-2 gallons an hour with out including any hotwater fuel you will need. Add another 1-2 gallons for that as well.

Lets do the math: $3.05/gallon x 4 hours = $12.20

+ diesel at approx the same for the sake of a number = $12.20

$24.40 for fuel. $160.00-$24.40=$135.60

4 hours of work, 1/2 hour for set up and break down, 30 minutes for travel time to site.

5 hours!

$135.60/5 hours = $27.12 per hour. ugh! We didn't account for that ad in the phone book or other miscellaneous advertising that got the phone to ring....uhoh, what about the phone bill?

Cell phone costs about $30-$40 per month before extra minutes.

What about insurance for your vehicle?

What about the cost of the Powerwasher you may have charged on a credit card?

Overall, I am trying to paint a picture of the biggest mistakes people make when jumping into business and not having all the basic costs covered.

Go back and calculate all your costs that happen before you even leave your office.

These will represent a percentage of what must be included in the price.

Then figure the actual job costs: tools, supplies, chemicals, fuel, labor, travel time etc.

The car washing figure sounds workable but after all costs are considered whats left out of the $1500.00 for labor, insurance and overhead expenses? It cuts in pretty deep and with the possibility of needing to re-wash vehicles with water spots (no mention of de-ionized water being used...which adds to the cost plus having to haul that water to the site) your margin can shrink quickly.

Sorry to be the wet rag on your enthusiasm for starting up this season but I would rather you face the cold hard facts than allow you to go onward with out the knowledge of failure without them.

For all I know, you have a family depending on you to bring home the money to support them with and without proper pricing, you stand to jeopardize all of your efforts.

I wish you luck and prosperity but most of all, I wish you diligence to be more prepared.

Rod!~

[Douglas Hicks 128]

Rule of thumb, If you are getting 80% of the jobs you estimte, you are too cheap. If you get 50% of the jobs you are about right on pricing. You should make a form for some of your jobs. Include set-up time, working time, clean-up time, drive time and material used = a cost figure. Sale - cost = profit. Add non-productive time, ordering materail, equip repair, billing, sales calls, non-paying customers, and subtract from what you thought the profit was. You might make more if you got a paper route.

A couple of years ago, I was not making enough. I raised our prices, over 100% in some cases. I added a service charge. We lost less than 10 customers.

Read Beth's response, sounds like you are not charging enough money. Is this your only source of income?

[metcalfec 14]

Wow, thats an eye opener!

Ok so I will go back and re-calculate my pricing. Please be the "wet rag" I have needed someone to tell it to me straight.

Hate to ask to many questions but obviously I am way out in left feild with pricing. So to give me an idea, should I have a minimun hourly rate to make sure I am covering the basics and still pocketing some.

I know every company is the same so I will tell you a bit about mine, I just started last season, have a 4000psi 4 gpm pw, couple wands, extension wand, ladders, 200' pw hose, 100' lp hose etc. Insurance and thats about it.

As for a vehicle I weighed my options and decided o rent a cargo van, I was out on average once a week last season and thought it was more economical to do so. It cost me $1440.00 for the year for the vehicle (includes insurance). Had I purchased one it would have put me at $7000.00 - $8000.00 easily. Not to mention all the other costs associated with owning a vehicle.

Again thanks for the info, I feel way more confident about the coming season with only two days of feed back from this site. I have three - four months till Spring.

Oh ya, No this is not my only source of income, I have a very good job, I work shifts and have all kinds of time during regular business hours. That is one of the reasons I decided to start a business, I found in my spare time I was spending lots of cash, thought instead, why not try and make some. Not to mention I would much rather work for myself.

Chris

[metcalfec 14]

I mean't to say;

" I know every company is NOT the same!"

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Rule of thumb, If you are getting 80% of the jobs you estimte, you are too cheap. If you get 50% of the jobs you are about right on pricing. You should make a form for some of your jobs. Include set-up time, working time, clean-up time, drive time and material used = a cost figure. Sale - cost = profit. Add non-productive time, ordering materail, equip repair, billing, sales calls, non-paying customers, and subtract from what you thought the profit was. You might make more if you got a paper route.

A couple of years ago, I was not making enough. I raised our prices, over 100% in some cases. I added a service charge. We lost less than 10 customers.

Read Beth's response, sounds like you are not charging enough money. Is this your only source of income?

Psssst! Thanks for the props, but that was all Rod, not me..... :groovy3:

Beth :cup:

[Paul Kassander 26]

But Beth, didn't you teach Rod everything he knows?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

But Beth, didn't you teach Rod everything he knows?

It's more a ying and yang thing. We compliment each other.

Beth

[Paul Kassander 26]

Ya, my wife says the same thing to me to make me feel better. ha ha

[gawashman 15]

Pricing strategy is awful important. I can't begin to tell you how many times a home owner has to remind me that they have a pressure washer, but cannot spare the time to do the work. My point is that you have to educate HO, property owners etc...about your process so the key is to educate yourself. In this way, you can do a better job justifying your price vs. the $99 hacks out there.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

This is a way to come up with a per hour figure.

1st, you must understand how long any particular job takes you to complete.

For example: Deck wash, floors are fast and easy, the rails are the complicated part cause of the spindles and undersides of the caps which never get any sunlight degradation.

For me, I can cover about 125-150 sqft per hour washing only. Not stripping. That averages between 75-100 sqft per hour depending upon the coating(s) being removed.

Cleaners have a coverage / sqft on most labels and depending upon their specific concentration (if you are buying them in liquid form), this will give you a yield. This is how much one container will clean.

Calculate that cost into your job cost.

How are you applying them? downstreaming? Xjet? Battery powered sprayer? you decide, a % of it goes into your job cost as a maintenance item.

Add fuel. You machine has a consumption rate that you must understand. Start by filling it with 1 gallon of gas and work with it noting start time and when it runs out. This is your machines consumption time and it will factor into your cost.

Now, the sealing part. What all supplies are you intending to use?

Here is a typical list;

-Tarps for drip and over-spray. Placed around deck. 4-12' x 15' is average per job.

-plastic (large rolls 25' x 100' for ground/plant/neighbor protection , pre-taped plastic for covering the side of the house. It comes in rolls 8' x 75')

-blue tape 1", 1 1/2" or 2" wide

-brushes, pads or rollers (you choose what you prefer) we use pads and brushes for small areas a pad cannot reach.

-degreaser (for cleanup) this will usually be pre-mixed in a lidded bucket with rags

-sealer or stain (they are both sealers, one just has a pigment)

-misc tools, pail opener or flat screw driver, drill for stirring stain + paddle, clamps for securing tarps and/or plastic 12-24 depending upon size of job, cutting knifes, funnel(s),

-sprayer; either a pump up, lvhp(low volume high pressure)/hvlp (high volume low pressure) type. ex:hvlp-deckster decker 5'er etc. vs paint sprayers which are lvhp. titan, graco, wagner etc.

-extension poles - short and extendable. These help to access areas without the use of a combersome extension ladder.

-step ladder 4' or 6'

-sanders/grinders/buffers. These will come in handy for different types of jobs where you need a little or a lot of wood removal to get a smooth surface.

-sand paper, grinding disks, and osborn buffing brushes.

-Blower for removal of dust, leaves etc.

-Broom; backup in case power is not available or the circuit has been tripped by the wash process. Inform the customer to check this before you come back to seal. ;)

-PPE Personal Protection Equipment. This consists of water proof pants and jacket (1@ person), gloves (nitril, latex or whatever you are not allergic to), Face masks (various types for different needs; sanding, oil vapor) you can buy the disposable ones with the cool flow valve. You may need to look into full face respirators which are ideal for high dust situations.

Now all of this is typical for a job. Some of these items are re-occurring costs cause they deplete, others are equipment and they get a % for maintenance because things wear out, break down or lost.

That is your homework, figure out which are which and the costs associated with them. Time to get some pricing.

Once you know how long it takes you to seal a deck (including prep; sanding, Plastic, Tarping, application of sealer, cleanup and load/unloading of all equipment)

Get a clipboard and keep times on all of it. Buy a camera as well. Take time to get some marketing photos for your future customers and keep a photo library of ALL your jobs. They will come in handy for more reasons than you may understand right now.

Now, talk to your tax accountant about the pro's/cons on leasing vs buying. I bet you can get a better deal tax wise buying and depreciating vs a 1 year write off.

Another point, you can't letter a rental vehicle (magnets yes but...) that doesn't say to the customer you are here to stay. Lettering does.

We buy all of our equipment except for large floor drum sanders and orbital sanders. (no room for storage)

Perhaps you now have a grasp of the scope of costs that go into just doing One job and to make it easier on yourself, you will want to re-invest in your business for the first couple of years till you have it tuned to your needs.

enuf 4 now.

Rod!~

btw, beth and I both learned this business from deckwashing for dummies! :0

[Ron Musgraves 240]

Great Stuff.....tgs

[metcalfec 14]

Great! Deckwashing for Dummies, I will look for that one.

Thanks,

Chris

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Great! Deckwashing for Dummies, I will look for that one.

Thanks,

Chris

I WISH there had been such a book. Best advice I can give you....read, read, read....and ask questions.

BUT an understanding of basic business practices is very important. Check your local college for classes. Attend seminars, and maybe go to a PWNA convention this fall. It's a good start.

Beth

[metcalfec 14]

Thanks again Beth. Locally there are alot of provincially funded programs for small business, I will be signing up on some courses, and yes reading as many articles as I can.

Thanks

Chris

[steven 37]

You'll be out of business in no time with prices that low. @ 40 cents a sqft to wash and seal, that does not even cover the cost of the product you apply.

Figure this: Average coverage rate for sealant (stain etc.) is 100-150 sqft/gal.

you will need 3.84 gallons minimum (lets say four to add in a fudge factor)

4 gallons means you will need to buy a 5 gallon size and lets just avg. your price at $185.00 for that 5'er.

$235.00-185.00=$50.00 left.

It takes an experienced person about 3 hours to wash that size of a deck

It will take approx. 4 to seal it including any prep and masking

that is 7 hours worth of labor.

$50.00/7 hours = $7.15/hour

This does not even go into figuring in for fuel, chemicals, plastic, tape or any other necessities to do the job.

By the time you are done, you have made less than a waitress makes without tip.

Now lets look at your other prices.

16' boat with heavy moss: $40.00

How long do you think this takes? 1-1/2? maybe 2 hours? (did you forget set up and break down time?)

Did you include time to drive to the site? fuel? chemicals if any?

After all those costs how much are you making?

How many boats will you do at any one location? 3-4?

Lets go with 4. Thats $160.00

Average machine will burn through 1-2 gallons an hour with out including any hotwater fuel you will need. Add another 1-2 gallons for that as well.

Lets do the math: $3.05/gallon x 4 hours = $12.20

+ diesel at approx the same for the sake of a number = $12.20

$24.40 for fuel. $160.00-$24.40=$135.60

4 hours of work, 1/2 hour for set up and break down, 30 minutes for travel time to site.

5 hours!

$135.60/5 hours = $27.12 per hour. ugh! We didn't account for that ad in the phone book or other miscellaneous advertising that got the phone to ring....uhoh, what about the phone bill?

Cell phone costs about $30-$40 per month before extra minutes.

What about insurance for your vehicle?

What about the cost of the Powerwasher you may have charged on a credit card?

Overall, I am trying to paint a picture of the biggest mistakes people make when jumping into business and not having all the basic costs covered.

Go back and calculate all your costs that happen before you even leave your office.

These will represent a percentage of what must be included in the price.

Then figure the actual job costs: tools, supplies, chemicals, fuel, labor, travel time etc.

The car washing figure sounds workable but after all costs are considered whats left out of the $1500.00 for labor, insurance and overhead expenses? It cuts in pretty deep and with the possibility of needing to re-wash vehicles with water spots (no mention of de-ionized water being used...which adds to the cost plus having to haul that water to the site) your margin can shrink quickly.

Sorry to be the wet rag on your enthusiasm for starting up this season but I would rather you face the cold hard facts than allow you to go onward with out the knowledge of failure without them.

For all I know, you have a family depending on you to bring home the money to support them with and without proper pricing, you stand to jeopardize all of your efforts.

I wish you luck and prosperity but most of all, I wish you diligence to be more prepared.

Rod!~

every newbie should read this!!!!!!