Can mineral spirits screw up a product?

[plainpainter 217]

With all these newer formulations that lack the mineral spirits of yesteryear, It got me thinking can you screw up a product's performance with the use of additional mineral spirits - assuming you apply enough material to maintain original coverage rates? Assume for the sake of arguement that you limit to 25% reduction.

Edited September 8, 2011 by plainpainter

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Daniel,

Respectfully, you are either not explaining the process or expectations with your homeowners. If that is not the case, you are doing work for stupid or deaf customers. They, as well as price shoppers, are to be avoided like the plague. Learned a long time ago in this business that you qualify your customers face to face. Not many, but some are not worth doing business with.

Agreed! +1

As for the initial question of this thread. It depends on the product as to which can be altered or augmented successfully with mineral spirits. Some products specify on the label to not thin with mineral spirits.

Others are hybrids that won't allow the combination.

If you want a faster drying product, add japan drier to your oil based product.

Rod!~

[PPW1234 14]

It helps resins and pigment penetrate into the wood before it sets up, otherwise everything just sits on the surface. Manufacturers used the stuff in spades, it's Uncle Sam that told them they had to cut back due to air quality standards. Stains haven't been the same since they made the changes.

So am I to take away from this, the higher the VOC's there are more mineral spirits, therefore better penetration of the stain into the wood.

[Doug Black 18]

The only time I've ever seen seep back from TWP is when the moisture level is too high to correctly apply anyway. RS is likely the same.

If you are applying a lot at very low temps that is a whole nother thing but I've never tried that.

[RPetry 564]

So am I to take away from this, the higher the VOC's there are more mineral spirits, therefore better penetration of the stain into the wood.

Jeff,

That is essentially correct. Keep in mind that mineral spirits are one of numerous solvents. Penetration qualities also depend on the type of oil you are trying to get into the wood. Paraffin oil naturally is quite good at penetration into wood. Linseed and other oils need more solvent.

[James 625]

There is a viscosity issue. Some oils are thicker like the 200 series than Ready Seal. So spirits can reduce the viscosity also letting the wood absorb the oil. Some time the wood cannot suck it up because the oils to thick. With cedar if you thin an oil product the better it comes out. TWP has the best line of products that relates to solid content.

[plainpainter 217]

There is a viscosity issue. Some oils are thicker like the 200 series than Ready Seal. So spirits can reduce the viscosity also letting the wood absorb the oil. Some time the wood cannot suck it up because the oils to thick. With cedar if you thin an oil product the better it comes out. TWP has the best line of products that relates to solid content.

I believe you are right - so far have tried TWP 500 and 200 series and like them the best of all the stains I have used on the 'front' end. We'll see if they hold out decently. If so - this is my 'goto' stain from now on. I don't think the 200 series is appropriate to use for 95% of residential clients on decks - so will have to try the 1500 series, which is the 500 series replacement. My original question about spirits screwing up a product had more to do if adding extra spirits could screw up the 'gradient' of how the different oils get sucked into the wood. Like A.C. the parafinnics separate and dive deep leaving the linseed to plug up the pores. Could adding spirits cause a reversion effect thus making the linseeds plug the pores before the parafinnics could have a chance to dive in?

So far on my TWP200 deck, the thing I have already noticed about it unlike ESI timberoil and A.C. - is that you hardly see any oil 'weeping' or rainbows during a rainstorm, perhaps a heavier grade of crude is used for TWP parafinnics that is heavier than water?

[acegot 14]

Daniel, If you're liking Twp, you need to use the 1500 series, the best of 500 & 200.

[plainpainter 217]

Daniel, If you're liking Twp, you need to use the 1500 series, the best of 500 & 200.

That's the one I am going to start using for customers in the future. What is your experience with the product?

[RPetry 564]

That's the one I am going to start using for customers in the future. What is your experience with the product?

Daniel,

I was going to make a public inappropriate response to your post, but am old enough and maybe wise enough to know right from wrong. Talk to Lyle, he knows his stuff.

[Jake Clark 17]

Plainpainter,

Rick's idea of you using TWP 1500 and talking with Lyle is brilliant. My best wishes are with you!

Many thanks,

Jake

[Doug Black 18]

So 1500 has the foot traffic rating of 100 with some of the rehydrating aspects of 200? And dives in more |better?

[Celeste 341]

We have found that the 1500 is "weird" to apply after becoming accustomed to the thinner stains - you can get lap marks if brushing because it takes longer to penetrate. Our test subject is taking abuse from my chickens - after 7 months - the vertical posts, which on the coop take more direct sunlight than the horizontals are showing a slight lightening - noticeably at the knots. If someone was to have a well shaded deck - this would appear to do well as we have been MORE than soggy this year and I see ZERO signs of black spots :)

[plainpainter 217]

Rick, I know what your inappropriate response was going to be, but I have no options but to abandon present product immediately and pick up another one without much testing. I like the 500 series, but it's discontinued and had drying issues - which is ok, since I was willing to just thin it down. And the 200 series which is an excellent product is just not usable on customers deck, it needs what is looking like 2 weeks before being returned to use on my own deck - along with it being extraordinarily hard to use. And of course the 100 series is not allowed in my area. I give my customers a 2 year warranty, Rick, so no matter what product I choose I'll stand behind it. So I just wanted to know from Lyle, in a nutshell if the drying issues and ease of use have been addressed. It's a risk to start using this product, but It's one I am going to take - it's a better risk than to continue using a product that I know that doesn't perform.

[James 625]

Thinned a bunch of product, added a bunch of copper and added a bunch of linseed today.

[RPetry 564]

There is no law, Rick, that says I can't spread my own turpentine/boiled linseed oil mix onto a deck. Now if I want to sell it on some retail shelf, then I have to comply to all those VOC laws.

Daniel,

Not true. At least in Ma. where you reside and do some business. Assuming that what you are actually doing is applying a stain to exterior wood.

Go to: http://www.mass.gov/dep/air/laws/aimregfs.pdf

Read it carefully. The summary specifically states, in partial, as follows:

• The AIM regulation applies to any person who manufactures, distributes, or sells AIM

Coatings for use in Massachusetts and to any person who applies AIM Coatings in

Massachusetts.

• The VOC content limits became effective on January 1, 2009 (see the Table of

Standards below).

• All AIM Coatings manufactured on or after January 1, 2009 that are intended for

use in Massachusetts must meet the VOC content limits.

I'll be the first to admit that my driving and possibly some other behavior does not strictly comply with NJ State law. But when you are contracting with customers, or possibly working on your personal property, you had better be aware of the law. To you, and your customers peril.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Great link Rick. Thanks for posting it.

Beth

[RPetry 564]

Great link Rick. Thanks for posting it.

Beth

My pleasure although I can't take the credit on reseach. An unnamed 3rd party emailed the link.

I'm getting old, and like Daniel, detest some of this nonsense, but new regulations are going to affect even small potatoes woodies. Might as well get use to it ...