Water based VS Oil based Stains

[AquaTek2013 6]

I'm a bit confused. Everything I have read seems that most pros prefer and recommend some form of oil based stain whether it be parrafin or linsead type. Is this correct? Well, I was doing some reading on various "professional's" websites and stumbled on one that I think is highly respected in the trade and he sells and uses water based. What's the deal? What am I missing? I want to learn all I can about all of it so I can be informed and share that information with my clients when we are making decisions on their wood project. I'm not really trying to start some war and I tried looking through previous posts on here but I don't see a search funtion?

 

Thanks to all and thanks to Shane Brasseaux for turning me to TGS! I really feel like this is the place for professional woodies!

[Ryan556 43]

Water based puts what I like to call a "thin candy shell" on the surface. It looks great at first, but ultimately starts to scratch, chip and peel away from the surface; normally requiring a strip (which is difficult with acrylics) and restain. Since it doesn't really penetrate, it also doesn't give the wood fibers the moisture it needs, which leads to splitting, cracking and warping.

 

On the other hand, a true oil based stain (I prefer A/C brand) pentrates deep into the surface, bonding with the fibers of the wood. This prevents that scratching, chipping and peeling. The oil also conditions the wood, keeping that needed moisture there to avoid splitting and cracking. It can even help seal up cracks that have already happened due to lack of moisture. And when it comes time to re-stain it, it just requires a simple wash before staining (providing you are applying the same color stain...and obviously those two steps aren't done same day).

Edited February 6, 2014 by Ryan556

[Aqua Pro 22]

Personally I feel that a good penetrating oil based stain is best for exterior wood such as decks. Without getting into the chemistry and different types of oils let me just say even some of the oil based stains on the market still have film forming properties. In my state for instance (illinois) the EPA has forced the manufacturers into reformulated products that fail to penetrate as well as their "ancestors" one did.

Obviously there are some very good products on the market that Are VOC compliant even in the so called "green states" that DO penetrate adequately.

As fas as acrylics and latex ( waterborne) stains are concerned, there is a time and a place for them. Where oils are great for virgin. Wood or wood that has an oil on it that can be stripped. Water based products come into play for a lot of structures that have already been coated with such.

Some may disagree with me but my personal opinion (there are exceptions) is match the chemistry. I've come to the point where a deck that has bern previously coated with a latex will get re coated with a latex. The strippers designed to remove said coatings are often times more dangerous to the ozone, vegetation and YOU than those "bad" oil based stains the epa want to get rid of.

Not only that but often times stripping a deck coated with a latex stain can be time consuming and expensive and it's likely you will never remove it all.

When I do use latex (usually solid) I use one with a good emulsifier in it or what is referred to as a "self priming stain".

The deck gets power washed to remove any surface contamination, dirt, mold. Etc and as much failed stain as possible. I do not usually neutralize a deck like this. Number One, I'm using a milder alkaline to clean this deck, not a heavy duty caustic stripper. Secondly oil based stains prefer acidic surfaces whereas waterborne adheres better if the wood is left slightly alkaline

Once the deck dries to an appro moisture level I scrap and sand to smooth out the edges and remove some of the chips/flakes that the power washer did not remove.

I hesitate to mention particular brand names but will do so anyway. I use flood swf solid. It has their trademarked emulsibond (spellcheck) in it and I have had great success with that product. I live in area that sees blazing summer sun and artic winters and in three years time I've only had one deck fail and it was clearly an issue with the deck.

Anyway hope that helps. :-)

[Aqua Pro 22]

Ps...I should have also mentioned that traditional latex stains were very prone to peeling. It was due to a couple primary reasons. 1) they didnt expand and contract with the wood as well and 2) they were not as permeable and humidity trapped under a deck could literally push the stain off. In the "days" a solid oil may have been a better option than a solid latex.

The new hybrids like the flood product I mentioned doesnt behave that way. In my experience, it is very durable and holds up well to foot traffic, patio furniture, weather etc. It doesn't come off in strips like old school latex. It more less will scuff over time, very much like some of those oul based prodicts that have a less penetrating topical membrane.

If you have a virgin deck, a deck with an oil or even some acrylics. .. stick with oil and sell the customer on it's benefits such as protection from within, ease of maintenance, fade vs scuff, enhancement of woods natural beauty and grain etc.

On those tough to strip decks or ones that have a solid on them already you may want to consider water based as an alternative, one with an oil self priming polymer.

GL!

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

There are pros and cons to both, and the scenarios for applying them will vary. Once you have been working with wood for a while you will begin to see the instances where one might be better than another on a job by job basis.

 

Beth

[AquaTek2013 6]

Thank you! That information really helps a lot. So, it still seems like oil based is the way to go from the get go. I was just puzzled when I saw a nationally known and very well respected woodie promoting and selling a waterbased stain. I didn't see where any oil based product was used or promoted and definitely not sold on his site. So I figured I had missed something somewhere

[James 625]

Thank you! That information really helps a lot. So, it still seems like oil based is the way to go from the get go. I was just puzzled when I saw a nationally known and very well respected woodie promoting and selling a waterbased stain. I didn't see where any oil based product was used or promoted and definitely not sold on his site. So I figured I had missed something somewhere

What site and what woody ?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I'm curious too....who said it?

 

Beth

[glbrown2 15]

In my professional opinion, a water-based product penetrates deeper into the wood (at least the ones I use) and dryes quicker.   Oil based are good as long as they do not contain linseed or similar stains that feed algea.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

GLBrown, Welcome, and please add your signature. House rules.

 

Actually, oils will penetrate deeper that a water based product will, but having said that, there remain when to use what and the question of durability.

These are not cookie cutter answers.

 

Beth

[AquaTek2013 6]

I'm curious too....who said it?

 

Beth

 

It's not that he actually just flat out said it but it is what he promotes and sells on his website. My intent was not to make him or anyone the subject matter but to get some clarification on what the general consensus is and to learn.

 

My thoughts on the subject are that oil would seem to do more to actually prolong the life and condition the wood. I'm sure waterbased products penetrate deeper but then again, so does water, right? Also, I think about what is needed to "clean up" after applying the stain. These are just my own thoughts and the questions my mind seems to focus on. Considering I am just learning, I have to try and see things from other perspectives and have things explained in ways that my mind doesn't want to see. Does trhat make sense?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I would like to add that there are situations and conditions one needs to consider when recommending a either water or oil based.

 

Taking into account these 'environmental' factors will help you to avoid some problems but not all.

 

Hottubs on a deck for example. This could lead to high mildew growth on many oil based products and make it harder to clean and maintain,

whereas an acrylic would fair better, be easier to clean and maintain and last longer.

 

North facing decks are a great candidate for acrylics.

South facing decks are going to require oils.

 

Why?

Well, northern facing decks tend to be more shaded and have a higher probability of mildew growth. Acrylics can perform better and last longer in these situations which equates

to longer intervals between maintenance (except for light cleaning by the h.o.)

 

Oil based products are a benefit for the sun baked decks and while they perform differently according to formulation, they are easier to maintain than acrylics which would peel and flake

in these conditions, especially on the floors.  Acrylics work great on the rails, but oil is better on the floors. This is another way to save the customer on maintenance. Limit their maintenance to the horizontals and make the verticals last longer.

 

This of course equates to a 2-tone price application but in the long run, it is worth it for the customer and the deck.

 

Rod

[AquaTek2013 6]

Thanks, Rod! That makes a lot of sense!