Fuzzies on Cedar Poll

[PressurePros 248]

Today is the final prep and seal commence on a deck I posted about last week. Strong chem mix, extended dwell time factored with varying thickness of prior sealer on an extremely soft variation of cedar has resulted in a pretty fuzzy deck. This thing is no baby at 1500 elevated square feet. So I have my work cut out for me

To what level do you guys get into getting rid of this look?

[reed 500]

I remove as much as possible. I use the defelting pads and palm sander. I really do try to get rid of 98% of them or better. Just makes the deck look so much cleaner and detailed.

reed

[JFife 14]

Ken, did you charge for it, or are you throwing this in due to the amount it fuzzed up?? When i did mainly decks, all were PT, and I couldn't advise a customer to spend 2K with me when she could get a new deck for 5K, so I kinda tailored the job to the individual deck. I did buff when we did redwood, which was about 1 out of 10 jobs.

Reed, have you not tried an Osborne Brush yet?? They'll do a far superior job compared to pads, and are cheaper, and don't leave the little black chunks everywhere. I'd at least try one, if you don't like it I'll buy it back from you. They help to get the fuzz out of the grain where a flat pad won't get to.

Someone should create something that buffs WITH the grain, as opposed to swirling against it. It would spin vertically like a yard edger, and could be mounted in that fashion so you could push it from behind. Actually, it wouldn't be that hard to create something like that which would attach to a drill (imagine a gun-cleaning brush, but larger, coming out of the chuck.) Hey, maybe I'll make one and get rich like the guy that created the xjet!

[reed 500]

Haven't tried the Osborne yet, where can you get one?

reed

[JFife 14]

reed,

www.aloghomestore.com

www.loghomecenter.com

www.permachink.com

I hate dealing with pchink, so I'd try the first two. Log Home Center is in Indy, and comes one-day to STL. They are nice guys and very helpful. Make sure to get the 6" brush with the SQUARE bristles. Check the first company though, they may have the best prices. pchink as a last resort. Probably cost around $75, but you could probably use it on 10 decks, depending how much floor use it gets.

What do you think of the "gun brush" theory?? Does that make sense to you, and seem like it would perform better??

[James 624]

You can use sheet rock sceens-------

[Pams Pressure & Clean 64]

Based on your previous posts concerning the vastly superior level of service you provide your clients, the rates that correspond to same, and the stance you take on both, it is a bit ironic that this question even arises.

To answer the question directly, I am of the same opinion as Reed. Cedar looks so much better when you take the time to sand or defelt all that is reasonably possible.

[PressurePros 248]

Based on your previous posts concerning the vastly superior level of service you provide your clients, the rates that correspond to same, and the stance you take on both, it is a bit ironic that this question even arises.

To answer the question directly, I am of the same opinion as Reed. Cedar looks so much better when you take the time to sand or defelt all that is reasonably possible.

Maybe reading the linked post below would help to clarify how/why this occurred? I suppose I opened myself to criticism , constructive or otherwise. If you are just wondering why I even asked the question it is because I DO offer vastly superior service and go the extra mile for customer happiness. I know no other way than to remove all the fuzzies but was curious if some guys have left some of them remain and have still achieved decent results? (ie.. am I overdoing it and making work for work's sake or does the additional sanding/defelting make a noticeable difference)

http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3770

[PressurePros 248]

Ken, did you charge for it, or are you throwing this in due to the amount it fuzzed up?? When i did mainly decks, all were PT, and I couldn't advise a customer to spend 2K with me when she could get a new deck for 5K, so I kinda tailored the job to the individual deck. I did buff when we did redwood, which was about 1 out of 10 jobs.

Reed, have you not tried an Osborne Brush yet?? They'll do a far superior job compared to pads, and are cheaper, and don't leave the little black chunks everywhere. I'd at least try one, if you don't like it I'll buy it back from you. They help to get the fuzz out of the grain where a flat pad won't get to.

Someone should create something that buffs WITH the grain, as opposed to swirling against it. It would spin vertically like a yard edger, and could be mounted in that fashion so you could push it from behind. Actually, it wouldn't be that hard to create something like that which would attach to a drill (imagine a gun-cleaning brush, but larger, coming out of the chuck.) Hey, maybe I'll make one and get rich like the guy that created the xjet!

A couple of people have mentioned an osborne brush. Does this attach to a buffer, an RO sander or a grinder?

Jon, there was enough money in the job for extended prep. I always allow for it on cedar or redwood.

[James 624]

If you get to the point were 80'% is off just put stripper on the bad area's or at that point just sand. Putting more stripper on screws up the wood to much. Go figure ? I use bleach all the time ? and I strip alot of decks without defelting.

[Aplus 525]

For me, each job is different. Some get sanded, others not. For example, I have a couple entire condo complexes that are bid at a single price per deck, and some are in good shape, while others are horrendous. Because the price point I had to bid was too low to include sanding, they don't get sanded.

Generally speaking, individual homeowner decks can be sucessfully bid higher, while condo complex decks cannot.

It's just a fact of how the environment is here, and I can't fool myself and say I can sand everyone at every price point, because it can't happen. And I can't pass up the work, because it just doesn't get any better than having 30-40 decks or more lined up in a complex where I can service all of them.

[JFife 14]

Ken,

Osborne Brush=buffing bliss

Hess Log Home Supply in PA would have them, dont have a web address but would be an easy search. You guys try these, you'll never look back. Goes on the Makita 9227C or similar buffer. I saw Harbor Freight has a 7" buffer on sale for 29.99. Probably work fine, no more than guys like us use one of these tools. Just make sure and get the SQUARE bristles.....if you find prices on these brushes ranging from $65-$85, the lower price is for ROUND bristles, less abrasive. The person selling them to you may have no idea about the difference, and for that reason, get them from one of the first two places I linked to.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Great topic Ken. This is a subject newbies need to think about, and those who are seasoned can have intelligent discussions over. Thanks for posting!

Beth

[M Pearlstein 14]

I agree that this is a great topic because (as I am learning the hard way) it can be such a big labor variable.

Tony's post actually spurred a bigger point which is how to properly write a contract. If anyone knows of links to good info on contracts please PM me since I dont want to hijack Kens thread)

[James 624]

Tony I have 15 inch floor buffer and put the black stripping pads on. I call it " Defurno" work great.

[RPetry 564]

Stripper, NaOH, commonly known as sodium hydroxide can harm wood? Gee, there's a novel approach to caring for the love of our profession, wood. Common sense, its Draino, lye, oven cleaner. NaOH is a must for nasty stripping, a near crime for anything else.

[James 624]

I hate Cedar I really do. Sanding causes other problems. People who build with it or buy it have know clue!!!

[RPetry 564]

I love cedar. It's above and beyond a PITA but even with all the problems for a contractor, the wood has character. The more knots, the better.

Looks great, smells great, and will drive you crazy. Or broke.

[James 624]

I guess I love to hate cedar. I got a 27 hundred dollar cedar job from stopping for lunch. The couple took me home for dessert. They threw a competitor off the job.

[RPetry 564]

Jim,

Congrats, that is a nice job. A real power lunch. Guess the competitor is no competition!

As for your concern of having ADD, do you know there is a bird on your head?

[James 624]

Rick , I just completed " Jeff Becks " Lake home . A cedar English slime endeavor.

[Joe Chadwick 14]

Jim what brand of floor buffer is the "Defurno " that you use?

[PressurePros 248]

I hate Cedar I really do. Sanding causes other problems. People who build with it or buy it have know clue!!!

I agree 100%

[James 624]

Joe, I'll have to check it's very old. My inlaw's have owned a cleaning company since 1929 and didn't throw anything away. It works very well.

I just completed a cedar job that had about 40 % clear stain left in area's . What a pooper! The exposed wood furred badly. "DEfurno" more worked great. On hardwoods even better it smoothe's out the ruff looking area's after stripping in a snap!

[Deck Guy 14]

Thankfully, most of the cedar I've dealt with here has not been treated at all, so it's not that great a problem. I fall more into the "take care of the obvious problem spots." I have a Makita belt sander and a Craftsman RO with 80 grit that do a decent job.

I haven't had a complaint about it from anyone, so I guess I'm alright. I suppose it goes back to how each of us looks at things.

I learned from my day job that we all see things differently. We have two custodians clean the facility, depending on what day it is. They both "clean" the bathroom, but I can tell who did it on what day, based on it's appearance. Yet they both consider it "clean." Maybe what I consider slightly fuzzy would be horrendous to you, or vice versa.

[Greg R 82]

We don't get too many fuzzy decks anymore unless we hire on a newbie but we always try and remove as much as possible. It makes the job look 100% better when the wood is smooth.

Not to mention you'll only have to do it ONCE..... future maintenance should NEVER fuzz unless your stripping off your finishes every 2 or 3 years. Another thing things locks me into to Ready Seal more and more.