A Very Real Threat

[PressurePros 248]

We are doing a deck this morning and my guy says, "I smell Chinese food" I just gave a little half smile and went about spraying. Then I smelled it too. We were using the new forumlation Cabot's Aussie Oil. I definitely recognized the smell.. someone must be cooking with peanut oil. About an hour goes buy and I happen to look over at a pile of oily rags we had piled. Sure enough smoke is coming off of them. I used a stick to pick them up and they were maybe two minutes from bursting into flames. I have never experienced a spontaneous combustion outdoors. I looked at my helper and said to him "Now you know why I am always on your a** about leaving rags in the truck".

Scary Stuff.

[PressurePros 248]

We left a back drop cloth folded underneath the corner of the deck. It was not saturated. The customer just called me frantic. It too burts into flames. This was a shaded area. In all my time doing this I have never had this happen. Two times in one day? What the hell is up with the new Cabot's. I am beside myself and the customer is not much calmer.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

We have been using the new Cabots for a while now, no ill effects here. But the smell is different than the old, and since the VOC's are lower, you have to wonder what in the formula changed.

We always keep a bucket of degreaser with us on jobs, the primary reason being cleanup. However the secondary reason is to keep the rags in, to avoid spontaneous combustion. (if a tarp get a spill on it, you can put some degreaser on it to help break it down, and wet it)

Was this job in full sun? How hot was it? Glad everyone is safe!

Beth

[PressurePros 248]

By the time we finished work today it was 92 in the shade. I'm guessing up on this deck it was well over a hundred. I just found it strange that two separate sets of rags/tarps had this happen. I was spooked. No damage occured.

Now imagine if something did happen and I didn't have insurance.

[JFife 14]

....Well this didn't go how I expected! Does that stain have Peanut Oil in it?? I was reading the thread and thought, "oh no, Ken's worker is allergic to peanuts!" That is actually pretty scary too if you think about it. Greg Rentchler, the guy that started Deckguide, posted pics a couple years back of an entire van he lost to fire, and about 10K of equipment. I talked with him a couple months ago, and he had lost another van to fire in '04. Needless to say, his ins. co. cut him after #2.:) THIS IS WHY A CO. SHOULD COME UP WITH A DECENT WATERBASE PRODUCT!!!!!!

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I was not aware Greg lost a second truck. Very scary stuff.

If you have heavy canvas tarps and they start to feel warm when not in use, GET RID OF THEM. Also take a bucket ( a gallon with a lid is what we use) and add water, and concentrated heavy duty degreaser. Keep your rags in that solution. We have also used things like mineral spirits in the past, but the rags are always in the degreaser solution. We have used Good Off, but the rags always end up in the bucket. If you keep them wet they won't combust. The degreaser works great, and like I said if you need something else, like goof off or whatever, you can use it and still keep the rags wet afterwards. Some of the things like xylene and mineral spirits are highly flamable.

Be safe all!

Beth

[Grant 500]

There are several commercially available fire proof trash cans that are great for this very purpose. they are self closing, self extinguishing, UL listed, NFPA compliant and (California) State Fire Marshall Approved.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Cool stuff! Got a link?

Beth

[Celeste 341]

That would be great - I have a fear of something flaming up in the back of the truck on the way home. The Aussie Oil clearly states on several places on the can - including a big yellow sticker - that spontaneous combustion can occur. We were nervous a long tailed cats in a room full of rockers while doing that Ipe deck - kept everything wet, etc...

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

All oil based product carry the warning (or by law should) that they are combustible. I just checked the various product we use, and all of them are marked that way, as I suspected they were - and should be. Also both the mineral spirits and the xylene are marked that way.

Rod and I were discussing this the other day, and he said the very reason he does what he does, using the degreaser in a pail of water for the clean up rags, wetting down before tarping when needed, is all to help deter this from happening.

All wood care professionals need to be aware of this danger, most of us work with oil based products as a matter of daily routine.

Beth

[CCPC 26]

I don't really do wood, but this was new one for me. I've never heard of this potential danger. Good information.

[Washaway 64]

Interesting read guys......I learned something today.

Just another reason to stay away from wood work :))))))))

[MeiersEnterprises 14]

I just stay away from rags. My wife tells me I'm starting to smell though. lol

[John Doherty 126]

Newpig has containers like Grant mentioned.

http://www.newpig.com/en_US/main.jhtml?catId=2LHBOILYWASTECANS&page=browse/capture.jhtml

JD

[PLD 14]

I don't think there's anything wrong with the batch, but that particular base oil may be more prone to combustion. Any type of oil and rags can spontaneously combust. Some oils a worse, and non-synthetic fibers seem more prone. It occurs because the fibers present a tremendous surface area (1000's of times the rags apparent surface area) for the oil to react with oxygen present in the air. That oxidation generates heat and the heat builds up inside the rag until it exceeds the flash point of the solvent.

FWIW, it's not just your rags but your shirts, jeans, etc that you need to be cautious about. Back in the shop be cautious of paper towels, newspaper, wd-40, wheel oils, etc..

Generally, a good soaking in water will prevent the problem as it decreases oxidation and keeps the internal temperature down.

[PressurePros 248]

I spoke with a lab tech over at Cabot's yesterday morning.. She told me the incidence of this phenomenon is increased with the lower VOC formula (albeit very slightly), but that they aren't sure why.

The reason I immediately jumped to a conclusion about the newer formulation was because on this same property I sealed a gazebo a week ago. Same product/color just the original formula. The sun was strong but no problems.

With the new, I can't even put down a rag with the Aussie Oil on it down for 1 minute in the sun. It gets incredibly hot. Two minutes and it starts smoking.

The botttom line is, my own complacency almost cost me big time. You get comfortable and that's when accidents happen. I thank all whom posted for some very good advice. I hope my blunder can help a new guy to not make the same mistake.

[RyanH 14]

with VOCs the flammable vapors evaporate. This has a cooling effect in addition to removing the flammable substance from the cloth/paper/etc and effectively drying the chemical. With lower VOCs the residual flammables retain the liquid solvents and heat (higher heat capacity than the dry cloth) and, like philip said, oxidize faster than the heat can be dissipated by other means (evaporation, convection, etc.). Nice work, EPA! Save a few birds or trees or whatever the VOCs are responsible for damaging in exchange for causing spontaneous combustion. No, there aren't dangerous byproducts when stacks of rags or ENTIRE VEHICLES/BUILDINGS burn! For crying out loud, if the EPA wants to stop VOCs build a processing space around farms to catch cow farts.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

What happens when the homeowner does their own deck, leave the pail out and a rag or two, or a brush or roller, right next to the house, so he can go in and eat lunch or answer the phone, or have a beer. How did he put out that cigarette he was smoking while he was working? I think this is a whole bunch of homeowner dangers wating to happen....

Beth

[Greg R 82]

5 years late to respond to this but..... hey what the heck :) Yes we lost two. The first was an employee that was trying to be "neat" by folding up a used wet tarp into a plastic container. Burst into flames in my driveway on a 90 degree and humid day. It was Menwood - which that stuff appearantly had a very low flash point.

The second van went from a squiral that decided to nest behind the exhaust manifold. Caught the van on fire driving down the road.

[Celeste 341]

with VOCs the flammable vapors evaporate. This has a cooling effect in addition to removing the flammable substance from the cloth/paper/etc and effectively drying the chemical. With lower VOCs the residual flammables retain the liquid solvents and heat (higher heat capacity than the dry cloth) and, like philip said, oxidize faster than the heat can be dissipated by other means (evaporation, convection, etc.). Nice work, EPA! Save a few birds or trees or whatever the VOCs are responsible for damaging in exchange for causing spontaneous combustion. No, there aren't dangerous byproducts when stacks of rags or ENTIRE VEHICLES/BUILDINGS burn! For crying out loud, if the EPA wants to stop VOCs build a processing space around farms to catch cow farts.

OMG - I don't know how I missed this one several years back but THAT is hilarious!

[Ron Musgraves 240]

Nice thread, never realized how Dangerous this stuff is.

[apsurfacesolutions 17]

Good 5 year old thread. As we head back to the use of oil based products this is something that every contractor and home owner neesds to be aware of.

[Ron Musgraves 240]

Good 5 year old thread. As we head back to the use of oil based products this is something that every contractor and home owner neesds to be aware of.

I'm very surprised this is not some sort of article here. Great Info for sure, TGS is top notch when it comes to Wood and residential needs. Beth & Rod have kept this forum going and its become a resource like no place else.