Gas prices

[PLD 14]

FWIW, I paid $2.71 in Atlanta this morning, $2.89 at noon, and $3.29 at days end. There are confirmed reports here of $4.50, $5.50, and $6.00/gallon at various locations. This afternoon, the governor showed that he favored votes over free-enterprise and declared a state of emergency to impose a freeze at price current levels. In the same speech, he made these statements.

<SP> Georgians should not panic. There is not going to be a gas shortage. The rise in gas prices is merely a product of public hysteria. We [Ga] get a great deal of our gas via tanker ship. The Colonial pipeline which represents 80% of our gas supply should be back online this weekend. </SP>

Will someone please explain to me how 20% = a "great deal" of our supply? Or how 80% of our supply being down for 5-7 days is not a problem?

Or why he declared a state of emergency if the problem is all in our heads?

Or why my local station was out of gas at 5pm and told me that tomorrows truck is a "maybe".

Seems to me that supply (reportedly not a problem) and demand (quelled by high prices) would rectify this situation pretty quickly. That is unless either supply is/gets constrained, or demand increases further. And I can tell you from the lines that demand can't get any higher...

His doublespeak and rhetoric made me so mad that I smashed out the window at a local retailer or two and took what I wanted. :(

[PLD 14]

It's interesting to watch the collateral effect of the situation. I'm sure this will erck some of the hardcore right-wingers, but where's Uncle Sam???

I'm a libertarian, but that makes me more RW than most so I'll chime in. I'm 100% behind you on this one. We can take over a foreign country in 3 days against armed resistance but it takes a week to get the national guard into New Orleans?!? For God's sake this was home turf AND we knew when and where it was coming ahead of time.

GeorgeW, et.al. : Get the 101'st airborne into the city and put a stop the violence. Declare martial law in the affected areas (that only takes a pen stroke, what's your excuse for delaying that?!?). We can move 100,000 tons of materiel overnight, but we cannot move 10,000 tons of rock to plug the levee in a week? Hard, yes. Dangerous, yes. Massive in scale, yes. But we have pulled off a hell of a lot more, with less, under worse conditions.

Stop the grandstanding, get out from in front of the camera, and DO SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE.

[squirtgun 122]

You and I could not disagree more. Supply and demand do not respond well when tampered with. My family owns property in on the Florida coast. And during last years hurricanes plywood was running $100/sheet. Word of the prices had speculators loading up trailers and driving down to Florida to take a shot at making a profit. The state put a halt to that and was arresting "profiteers". The end result was that you couldn't find plywood anywhere at any price.

Squeeze the balloon one place and it swells elsewhere. The gas attendant has to make a buck, play the employees, and feed his family. If 50% of his sales is smokes and beer and that goes to zero, then gas goes up.

Triple rates during that once a decade event help pay for vacant rooms after a post-911 type travel environment. It also help pay for staff that end up working 48 hours straight, their additional costs for fuel, supplies, etc. If that business owner doesn't operate as profitably as possible, he may close. And if he closes, where will those evacuees stay then?

"Price gouging" sucks, but it is a fact of life in a free captialist society. It costs alot more money to get a glass of water on the moon than it does by the seaside. Those who risk their money and time in an effort to make a profit off of selling water on the moon deserve to reap the rewards for tehir efforts.

And lest anyone forget, I am being "gouged" to the tune of $3.50 a gallon as I write this.

Once a decade? I think the folks in Florida would beg to differ with the frequency you think hurricames hit.

As for who is working the hotels,most not all live in them(the hotel) with 13 of their relatives.They are allowed to enter the US with all the gold they can carry on their bodies.AND our Govt, gives them a $10k business grant(not a loan a grant),they also don't pay taxes for 5yrs,so every 5 yrs they bring over a new relative to put the business name in to aviod taxes.They spend almost $0 in the communities they live in(if they do business with other in their community they think they are entitled to a lower rate than anyone else) and then the greedy %^&%^& &*O^ break the law by jacking prices up(you live in Ga.you know state law doesn't allow room rate hike during an evac).They are making plenty of $$$ by having full rooms that would normally be empty.

If someone tried sell me a $100 sheet of plywood and I would tell them in just a few words where to put it.

For those who think that price gouging under current circumstances isn't wrong.Let me come bulldoze your house,take your equipment,make sure you have no fulltime job to go to(if you do PWing parttime),let me skim your checking account,put you,your wife and kids in the car,make you to drive 10 hr,force you to pay triple the normal rate to put a roof over your head,and raise your fuel cost by over a $1 a gallon.Then we can see how feel about price gouging.

[acidburn 14]

AMEN Scott, AMEN!

[aph111 14]

The price gouging trickles way down the line.My buddy went to trade his Durango in today for something a little better on gas and the dealership offered him $3000.00 under what he should have normally received for trade in.The average person is really gonna take a beatin till we pull out of this situation.

:lgsad::lgangry:

[jason c. 14]

Once a decade? I think the folks in Florida would beg to differ with the frequency you think hurricames hit.

As for who is working the hotels,most not all live in them(the hotel) with 13 of their relatives.They are allowed to enter the US with all the gold they can carry on their bodies.AND our Govt, gives them a $10k business grant(not a loan a grant),they also don't pay taxes for 5yrs,so every 5 yrs they bring over a new relative to put the business name in to aviod taxes.They spend almost $0 in the communities they live in(if they do business with other in their community they think they are entitled to a lower rate than anyone else) and then the greedy %^&%^& &*O^ break the law by jacking prices up(you live in Ga.you know state law doesn't allow room rate hike during an evac).They are making plenty of $$$ by having full rooms that would normally be empty.

If someone tried sell me a $100 sheet of plywood and I would tell them in just a few words where to put it.

For those who think that price gouging under current circumstances isn't wrong.Let me come bulldoze your house,take your equipment,make sure you have no fulltime job to go to(if you do PWing parttime),let me skim your checking account,put you,your wife and kids in the car,make you to drive 10 hr,force you to pay triple the normal rate to put a roof over your head,and raise your fuel cost by over a $1 a gallon.Then we can see how feel about price gouging.

hey scott, not trying to start something, and i agree with some of the points you brought up, but the bold print above just isnt true. uncle sam doesnt discriminate when it comes to collecting.

and the margin for gas profit, while not huge, is bigger then some think. i can drive down the road and see on the left side of the street 2.79reg and 2.89 on the right.??? both stores get raw gasoline from the same, the only difference is that they use different types of detergents from store to store. so while its good for your engine to purchase qt's top grade, its also wise to switch to chevrons etc. occasionally. even though premium gas has premium detergents, all gas will leave deposits. since these stores use different detergents they can be utilized to clean deposits left by the other.

prolly a bunch of useless info for most but i thought it was interesting when i learned about

[RyanH 14]

The price gouging trickles way down the line.My buddy went to trade his Durango in today for something a little better on gas and the dealership offered him $3000.00 under what he should have normally received for trade in.The average person is really gonna take a beatin till we pull out of this situation.

:lgsad::lgangry:

I'm hoping to take advantage of this type of situation. I'm looking for a slightly used Jeep Wrangler. I've got my rig stripped down to be absolute necessities and will be able to pull it with no problem for the short distances I will now be traveling to do my washing. Plus, I want to go blast some trails after a few mods! Anyway, Jeeps aren't exactly known for their fuel efficiency, so hopefully some people will buy into the hysteria and be in a position to "get what they can" out of their vehicle. As the demand for jeeps goes down, the price will also go down. I hope.

[Steve Moore 14]

IN ST AUGUSTINE Florida IT WENT FROM $2.54 TO $3.25IN A 5 HR PEROID OF TIME that is just greed nothing else

[squirtgun 122]

hey scott, not trying to start something, and i agree with some of the points you brought up, but the bold print above just isnt true. uncle sam doesnt discriminate when it comes to collecting.

and the margin for gas profit, while not huge, is bigger then some think. i can drive down the road and see on the left side of the street 2.79reg and 2.89 on the right.??? both stores get raw gasoline from the same, the only difference is that they use different types of detergents from store to store. so while its good for your engine to purchase qt's top grade, its also wise to switch to chevrons etc. occasionally. even though premium gas has premium detergents, all gas will leave deposits. since these stores use different detergents they can be utilized to clean deposits left by the other.

prolly a bunch of useless info for most but i thought it was interesting when i learned about

Jason,

The area you bolded in my post,was told to me by an immigrant of this particular nationality.He currently owns 3 hotels and 6 convienence stores so I figured he knew what he was talking about.

[PLD 14]

If someone tried sell me a $100 sheet of plywood and I would tell them in just a few words where to put it.

As is your right. But let me ask you this. How much would you have to charge to recoup your investment to *deliver* plywod into a ravaged area? Let's throw out some numbers from Atlanta to Fla..

40 sheets plywood @ 17.50 = $700.00

850 miles RT @12mpg @ $2.50/gallon = $180.00

Ignore wear and tear.

1 hotel stay @ $100/night (right!) = $100.00

3 meals/day for 2 days = $50.00

Gross cost = $25.75/sheet or $1030.00 for the load.

Now let's examine profits.

1 day down, sell for 2 hours, one day back. Total expenditure: 48 hours.

$4000-1030 = $2970 gross profit

$2970/48 = $61.85/hr

What a *******! He's ripping people off almost as bad as those pressure washers. And that assumes that he makes it in 8 hours (instead of 36), can actually find a hotel to stay in (much less for $100), and experiences no mechanical failures, illness, road blocks, etc along the way.

What if he gets there and finds 20 other people already there selling. And the going rate is only $50.00 sheet? Now your talking $970 ($20/hr) profit on a fairly high risk venture. Would you do it? Not for $970.00 I'd stay home and wash peoples houses for $100/hr.

Anti-gouging measures only stifle supply. That causes shortages and highly elevated black market prices. Free trade enhances the opportunity for reward, fills supply lines, and gets supplies to those in need.

For those who think that price gouging under current circumstances isn't wrong.Let me come bulldoze your house,take your equipment,make sure you have no fulltime job to go to(if you do PWing parttime),let me skim your checking account,put you,your wife and kids in the car,make you to drive 10 hr,force you to pay triple the normal rate to put a roof over your head,and raise your fuel cost by over a $1 a gallon.Then we can see how feel about price gouging.

Let me put you on the beach after a hurricane, rain pouring in the holes in your roof, all your windows busted out, no police to protect your belongings, and you can't even FIND a piece of plywood much less buy one AT ANY PRICE. $2000 (20 sheets) sucks, but realistically it is a small price to pay to protect/secure your belongings. And to get it delivered to your doorstep in the middle of a disaster area?

Have any of us loaded up our tanks with potable water and headed for New Orleans? Offered to deliver 55 gallons of bleach to sanitize drinking water? Fired up the burners so people can take hot clean showers? Loaded up our reclamation systems and set up a make shift water purification plant? Nope. We are sitting at home making $60-100/hr and criticizing those who have gone to help AND make a buck.

Which is more honorable?

Go, make a profit, and provide help.

<or>

Sit home, watch TV, do nothing, and sleep well knowing you made a buck off someone with a roof.

One last comment:

Has anyone here ever ridden in an ambulance? gone to the ER? They make their whole business off profiting from those in desperate need. And have you ever looked the bill? Thousands and Thousands of dollars for a 20min ride. Never heard anyone kicking them about being profiteers. I have, however heard more than one person frantically awaiting their arrival and elated when they did arrive.

It's all a matter perspective. If you want something delivered *now*, from a long way away, under terrible conditions, and with high risk of injury or death. It's going to cost you big time.

[Celeste 341]

Wow Philip,

Thanks for the reality perspective (and I'm not being sarcastic either).

Celeste

[jason c. 14]

Jason,

The area you bolded in my post,was told to me by an immigrant of this particular nationality.He currently owns 3 hotels and 6 convienence stores so I figured he knew what he was talking about.

this is a cool website....BEWARE, you may spend hours on this website and not realize it!!! www.snopes.com/business/taxes/immigrants.asp

[PLD 14]

Thanks. I'm not trying to be insensitive to those who are suffering. But the reality is that a capitalist society is driven by "greed". We have more than anyone else on the planet because because people recognize a need, see an opportunity to make a profit, and attempt to capitalize on that need.

I'm not saying that capitalism is perfect. And from a spiritual perspective it may not even be honorable. But when it comes to building a vibrant society, it's the best means. Just look back at history to judge the alternatives. Price freezes, rationing, government ownership, socialisism, communism. They have been tried in a hundred locations all over the planet. And they have all failed time and time again.

[PressurePros 249]

:usa: Three cheers for the red, white and blue. Long live capitalism!

[squirtgun 122]

Jason,

Thanks for the link,it's refreshing to know what I was lead to believe isn't true.

Phillip.

It has been that long ago we donate our time and equipment in our town to those who's homes were flooded when the remnants of Denise came through.Late last year we filled our tank and headed to a local town that was without water for over 2 weeks(1 trip a day until their water was restored.).Numerous mystery house washes we do for the elderly,whom have no idea who did the work.We knew there were needs and stepped up to meet them.

NOT one penny profit was made,not one job has come of doing any of it, and I could careless .We did it because we wanted to help our fellow man.

We have made our donation to help with what is happening in the gulf states.We are asking our customers to help with a donation in exchange we give them a discount.

Hey Ken the new logo looks great.

[Celeste 341]

Scott, you are one of the unspoken heroes in times like these :)

Celeste

[jason c. 14]

hats off to you...thats big time good heartedness

[JeffW 14]

My friend owns a service station and said when he buys gas it is cash first before any is pumped in.$15,000-$20,000.He has no choice but to put the price up now or he will not be able to buy enough gas from his supplier the next time when the price is alot more.I do feel bad for people who were barely making it anyhow,they did'nt need this.There are also alot of those complainers though that will complain about high gas prices but then buy three packs of ciggaretes and a case of soda and then stop at the beer distributor for a case of beer and then go out to eat that night in their gas guzzlin' SUV.

[squirtgun 122]

You will never hear me complain about my SUV,with 5 children between my wife and I,it's a must,not a luxury.

We don't drink beer,so that is extra money for smokeless tobacco and Diet Moutain Dews.As a general rule we don't make wasted trips when we are out we try to handle as many tasks as we can.

We rarely do the dinner out thing.The bill for 7 people will make you pass out.....lol.

I understand the station owners point of view to a degree.However,double or triple the normal profit under current circumstances is ^&%^$# up.

[JeffW 14]

I definitely agree with the safety aspect,only more reason for those who have suv's to cut back on other unneccesary things so they can pay for gas and provide a safe ride for their family.I have an astro van and it gets around 20 MPG, not great, but I also like the security of a regular sized vehicle.Gas stations don't make alot of profit on gas,in fact my friend said he would quit selling it but that is how he makes other sales, including service appointments.Gas is what people stop for and then they spend money on other things,which is where the profit comes from.

[CCPC 26]

I pull with a V6 Ranger and I would gander my gas bill is far less than most in this business. Of course I don't have quite as big a trailer is most on hear and I don't carry near the weight that most do. I specificly bought a mid size truck for the purposes of saving a bit on fuel. I also make efforts to keep my business as close to home as possible. I live within walking distance from the Orange Park/Jacksonville border, but yet 90% of my work is in Orange Park, and within 5 to 10 miles from my house. Jacksonville is the largest city in the U.S. in land mass, and I don't plan to spend 45 minutes to an hour traveling from one side of the city to the other (unless its a bigger, more profitable job). I realize that some can't support their business without having to cover a much larger area, but it works for me and I'm happy with it at this stage of the game.

[PLD 14]

hillip.

It has been that long ago we donate our time and equipment in our town to those who's homes were flooded when the remnants of Denise came through.Late last year we filled our tank and headed to a local town that was without water for over 2 weeks(1 trip a day until their water was restored.).Numerous mystery house washes we do for the elderly,whom have no idea who did the work.We knew there were needs and stepped up to meet them.

NOT one penny profit was made,not one job has come of doing any of it, and I could careless .We did it because we wanted to help our fellow man.

We have made our donation to help with what is happening in the gulf states.We are asking our customers to help with a donation in exchange we give them a discount.

I am humbled. You are a true American and a gentleman. You did what SHOULD be done in an event like this.

I do still stand on my position that constraining supply is the wrong thing to do in hard times. Giving of yourself so there is no need/room for "gougers" is the honorable/right thing to do, and you are doing just that. And you will receive your reward for for your selflessness.

[Jon 533]

Guys lets each pool $1000 and buy stock in the gas business, as soon as it hits say $3.75 to $4.00 SELL and make a profit.

Diesel today was $3.39 here, Alan has it CHEAP!

[One Tough Pressure 580]

http://www.ktvu.com/news/4907801/detail.html

[Russ Johnson 141]

I'm doing the happy dance. Yesterday, the station up the street was $3.09. Went out this morning, and it's $2.89. If anyone ever told me $2.89 for gas was a bargain, I'd have laughed at them.......Not funny now.

[Mike Williamson 198]

What really gets me is that yesterday, some of our local stores were changing prices every couple of hours.....I'm SORRY....but this IS price gouging. That is the SAME gas in their tank at 5pm that was there at 3pm.....which they have already paid for, or at least been invoiced for. The distributor is NOT going to call them up and say....."hey, ya know that gas we brought you last night, well you owe us $xxx MORE for it today!"....i mean c'mon.....the prices should DEFINITELY NOT change no more frequently than they get a gas delivery.....

Yes, it is the same gas, but the cost to replace it IS going to cost him more. How much of that increase was just an effort to make more profit, and how much was an effort to keep up with the amount it was going to cost him to refill his tanks, I can't say.

Here's an example of why it has to work as it does. Say the guy has a 10,000 gallon tank at his station, and it cost him $2.50/gallon including all taxes, to fill that tank last Tuesday. He prices the gas at $2.75/gallon, meaning it cost him $25,000.00 to fill his tank, and he's going to sell the gas for $27,500.00. Then on Wednesday, he checks prices with his supplier and finds that the next delivery of gas is going to cost him $3.00/gallon because of the effects of the hurricane. That means that if he keeps his prices the same, as you suggest he should, he will not only have to use up the entire $2,500.00 in profit he made from gas for that tank, he's also going to have to take another $2,500.00 out of his own pocket. If prices continue to rise every week, he'd wind up going out of business because he's consistently selling gas for less than it is going to cost him to replace it.

As far as someone charging more because there's a need, that should be up to them. If a hotel wants to jack the prices up 2x, 3x, etc, that should be their right. Would I do it? No. But hell, it's their hotel...why should the government be allowed to force a hotel owner to charge a certain rate simply because there's a need? Should the government come into YOUR private property and tell you that you're going to be housing a couple refugee families? I don't think so.

If you don't like the fact that some stations are raising prices way above where they need to in order to remain profitable, let them know, don't shop there, etc etc, but stop expecting government to force people to be charitable or decent or sharing or whatever you want to call it.

And on that note....last week a gallon of milk at my local grocery store was $2.99....yesterday, it was $3.59!!! 60 cents in a week!!! Yes, I know....it's because of the higher gas prices.....geesh.

Yes, the gas prices. It costs a lot more to transport that milk from the dairy to the distributor and from the distributor to the grocery store distribution center, and from the grocery store distribution center to the local store. Rising gas prices are going to affect a lot of other things.