Call-backs from 1 year ago

[Jarrod 22]

Today, I recieved a call from a cust. from last June. We stripped, brightened & stained her deck with TWP (2 coats on all horiz.) She claims that there is "premature" ware in some areas on the steps and other parts of the deck. This deck gets all day sun and they do have a 10lb. dog. I'll tell you all what I told her, but first, I wanna hear what you would say/do in this situation.

Thanx!

[Jarrod 22]

No offence taken Rick. I was just typing my conscience.

ALL - I used to think that everything was my fault in the beginning. The thing is, sometimes people (customers) are taking full advantage of my kindness, or they are just ignorant. Some people call us at the first sign of wear. The fact is, the stain will GRADUALLY wear - and not evenly. Does that mean when a wear spot occurs, we have to go and touch it up? IMO - certainly not! Otherwise we will have to "come to the rescue" every time a "spot" appears. Break pads gradually wear out too. Does that mean that we should get them replaced every time a millionth of an inch wears off? I can just hear the mechanic now - "Sir, you better get out of here before one of my boots comes up missing!" It would be nice if the stain would last 24 months looking perfect the whole time, and then 1 day later, fail totally. It just doesn't work that way, and most of us know that. 1 thing I have learned over the years is this - Yes, it is important to keep customers happy - to an extent. Lines must be clearly drawn. If we spend all of our precious time running around making everyone "happy" we will end up broke and wearing a straight jacket!

I'll give you all a very good example - A fellow deck guy and friend of mine got a callback from a customer several months after he did her deck. She said that the deck looked great except for 1 section of railing that was really faded. When he got there, he noticed a bunch of towels draped over the railing. The cust. then removed the towels from the railing and said something like - "see, it's really faded here and I want you to fix this." Now, for the big question - Was my buddy responsible for this? (Jepordy music)

The answer is - ding, ding, ding, NO!

The "premature ware" came from people getting out of the pool, drying themselves off and hanging the towels (containing chlorine) in the railings.

Is the cust. really ALWAYS right? Certainly not!

[seymore 90]

Jarrod,why don't you leave your customer touch up stain since TWP blends in so easily

My bid states that all deck jobs carry a 12 month guarantee.

Woodsavers of Texas guaruntees workmanship and product performance for 24 months on rough sawn cedar and 12 months on pressure treated pine.

guaruntee covers sunlight graying,mildew and algae.Guaruntee is limited to replacement of wood sealer only.

[Joe Chadwick 14]

It would be nice if the stain would last 24 months looking perfect the whole time, and then 1 day later, fail totally. It just doesn't work that way, and most of us know that. Yes, it is important to keep customers happy - to an extent. Lines must be clearly drawn.

I agree with what every one has already said but I would like to add a comment. When my customers ask me how long the stain will last I mention all of the above comments made by you, I also tell them that the deck is not going to look this good next year and use an Example like if you park a new car in your driveway and don't even use it what will it look like in a year,not like it did new. I also ask them what is most important to them having the wood protected or aesthetics (the look) after staining their wood will be protected for 2 years but it will not look as good as it does now and they will determine their own maintenance schedule based on their answer. However I also will go an do a free wash & stain to a good customer if there is a problem I determine is not natures or my customers fault. Gotta keep some of em happy"

[Jarrod 22]

Shane - I have left touch up stain in the past, and guess what - the PITA people want me to come out anyway. They calim they lost it or there isn't enough. OR - my favorite line - what did I pay you for! Answer - "For doing what I already DID!"

[plainpainter 217]

The problem I am seeing, is the definition of failure, it seems to me everytime I make up a definition in a contract and leave the meaning vague - the customer will use that against me to the umpteenth degree. For example, I was painting this house - and everything was going wrong on the job, my profits went up in smoke but I persisted. When came time to collect the next check - since the contract said 2nd check will be collected when paint is half done. The customer looked at me and looked at the house and said - "I don't think the paint job is half done" and then went back inside. Well I was all done and packed my stuff and left.

I think with decks - there is so much abuse that can't be predicted. If a deck was used for a few weeks during summer and then left alone afterwards - it may last 24 months according to our definition. Or there could be pets, barbecues every other day, and kids splashing chlorinated water onto the deck boards. You get my point. I think offering warrantees is a big mistake.

Either people think you do a great job and ask you to come back to redo their decks - or they think you are an idiot, how is a warrantee to going persuade them otherwise?

-Dan

[Jarrod 22]

You have a point Dan

[PressurePros 249]

My warranty says PressurePros, Inc guarantees this workmanship for a period of two years. Normal wear and tear including, but not limited to, grease stains, paint, algae and heavy traffic wear does not apply.I have never had a callback and I have done this from day one. I explain upfront that fading occurs and I say to them, "obviously, if you have a dog and he scratches the surface or if people get rough with furniture the waranty wouldn't apply. People aren't stupid, they know what constitues poor workmanship versus negligence on their part. I will honor any warranty work if I ever have to perform it. I leave the door open but if I have one warranty job I have to do every three or four years, that is the cost of doing business.

[JFife 14]

I totally agree Dan, but I think Ken is right from his perspective. What has to be weighed is, "how many customers will actually try and make a claim based on a warranty issue vs. how many additional jobs will I sell by having this built-in reassurance clause for nervous homeowners". That consideration, would alter the amount of advertising you have to do, distance you must travel to work from home base, etc.

[seymore 90]

Shane - I have left touch up stain in the past, and guess what - the PITA people want me to come out anyway. They calim they lost it or there isn't enough. OR - my favorite line - what did I pay you for! Answer - "For doing what I already DID!"

Well there are times you are just not able to please everybody has hard as you might try.Now you can just fix this problem and make them happy and tell them their deck is SOOO rare and this never happens to your other customers.

Then you make a note in their file and just lose their number case closed.:D

[Jarrod 22]

Shane - LOL

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

how is a warrantee to going persuade them otherwise?

I think this is an excellent question.

There are many sides to this debate and the one that we address it from is the bad name contractors already have. Call it stigma. We wanted to offer a benefit to our service that shows dedication and longevity in the company.

A Warranty can instill confidence, trust and a positive image where otherwise there may not be one and it sets you apart from those who don't by saying that you stand behind your work.

Anyone else like to add to the debate?

Rod!~

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

For those customers that think a deck should look great the whole time of what the coating is supposed to last is obviously not very aware of the environmental activity going on right outside of their window.

Customers ask me what it will look like in 2 years and my reply is: ...That depends on what you do to help maintain it in the interim! If you just let it go and do nothing, then mother nature will be hard at work starting with mildew growth that you will notice as black streaks on the sides of the handrails, the bottom of the rails up to about 8-12 inches will start to turn grayish black from the spores and pollen that splash up on it and provide mildew with food to grow on, the horizontals color will begin to fade especially in the high traffic areas including any damage inflicted by pets and pests (squirrels, birds etc) and sun exposed areas. You will see the floors and handrails fade in color while the pickets stay pretty much the same and after some time if you have enough shaded areas algae will start to appear.

Now if you clean it regularly, you will still notice some fading and the pet and pest damage but the over all look will be much more clean and appreciable.

My next angle is to throw in a guilt line by saying: It's your money, if it were me, I would take care of it after spending this much money on it and make it last as long as possible. If you don't have the time, call us and we can help you with that too, but it's your property and the value of it decreases faster if you do nothing.

Overall Mr. or Mrs. Customer, the durability and longevity of the product is in your hands. Neglecting it is a sure way to see me sooner rather than later and the costs will be reflected in what you do or do not do between times.

We are in this business to help wood last longer on your structure and we can only do that with your help and a regular maintenance regimen.

Rod!~

[plainpainter 217]

Rod - after reading your post, it just makes me more convinced of all the variables that make a deck stain fail. So my question is what exactly would warranteeing workmanship mean? I just did a customer deck, it has full sun all day long, looking in the southernly direction up against a white house. And after 2 years - this deck was beat bad! Now if I warranteed for a period of 2 years - what would that mean. would I be re-doing their deck for free? It just is what it is. They didn't want to strip - so I cleaned, pressure washed, sanded some hand rails and some deck boards down - and re-applied stain. The upshot - is that I did sell them on a fall maintenance plan - whereby I will clean the deck, and put some clear finish like thompson's water seal - just to give it a wax protection for the winter snow.

[PressurePros 249]

The upshot - is that I did sell them on a fall maintenance plan - whereby I will clean the deck, and put some clear finish like thompson's water seal - just to give it a wax protection for the winter snow.

Dan, you know I love torturing you. Reading the above indicates to me why you cannot offer two year guarantees.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

You will be specifically dealing with the horizontals that obtain the most damage. You may do some touch ups on the verticals further down the road as time passes.

A Warranty is a pact to help with protection not carte blanche to abuse it.

Also, keep in mind that we are warranting only products that we recommend and install. Period. Not the consumer grade stuff from hd or lowes or sw or whatever.

Rod!~

[Jarrod 22]

Well, I went to the customer's home today, I was in the area anyway (did not have my camera - crap!) Yeah, I caved! I touched it up while I was there. I used a pad and a sample spray can. It only took me 5 min. I also left 2 spray cans on the deck. The cust was not home - thank God! I'll bet she calls tomorrow and still complains, I'll let yuo all know.

The wear spots were NOT my fault. One spot was under the rim of the IRON umbrella holder. Gee, I wonder how that got there? Anyone that has 2 brain

cells to rub together can figure that one out.

The other areas were on the edges of a few stairs where people scuffed it with their feet. It was a little lighter but not worn off. All in all, it looked really good. This deck gets all day sun too. It was funny how this cust. acted like her deck was ruined or something, when all it was, was a few worn spots. I really don't feel that I was responsible for this at all. Nor do I feel that I was supposed to touch it up, but Beth said that I was a nice guy and I didn't want to make a liar out of her. LOL

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

That is not premature failure but wear and tear.

Next!

Rod!~

[Jarrod 22]

Thanx Rod!!

[PLD 14]

Jarrod,

Some people are just oblivious about reasonable expectations or obvious causes. Others are jyst looking to take advantage of any perceived benefit, freebie, etc.

Just today I had two of these types. One in my online business that wanted a return auth for products purchased 6 months ago. No problem with the products, they just haven't used them and wanted a full refund. The other was a PW customer that had us out about 6mo ago. Some mildew has recurred and they feel it has recurred too soon. They feel that we didn't do it well enough the first time or it would not have grown back so fast and want us back to touch up for free...

[Jarrod 22]

Jarrod,

Some people are just oblivious about reasonable expectations or obvious causes. Others are jyst looking to take advantage of any perceived benefit, freebie, etc.

Phillip - you ain't kidding.

They feel that we didn't do it well enough the first time or it would not have grown back so fast and want us back to touch up for free...

That's the equivalent to getting a hair cut and coming back 6 months later and saying that if it was cut right the first time, it wouldn't have grown back. - So many people, soooo few straight jackets!

[RPetry 564]

Philip,

Funny you should mention mildew and customer problems. When I got back to the office yesterday, there was a message from one of my oldest, first year in business customers. Returned the call immediately. I know this deck intimately, having serviced it a few times, the last being a full strip and stain two years ago. This one of the few solid oil jobs that I have taken on, I just don't like solid stain jobs. Anyway, they have a portion of their deck that is fully shaded, and is subject to mold and mildew. The customer asked if I could schedule a date to clean it up. As I am currently working in that area, said sure, I'll stop by tomorrow and take care of it. I've got a spare hour or two today, and I'll be just around the corner.

The customer will try to pay me today, and I will not accept a dime. Why would any business do work for free? I'll try and explain.

First, my cost outlay is nil. A half gallon of 12% BLEECH!, a squirt of Dawn, and a few bucks in gas for the PW. The most cost is an an available hour or two of easy labor.

Next, these people are retired and the husband has not been in good health. I have explained how to get rid of mold and mildew to other customers and they have done the work themselves. These people can't.

Most important is the referrals I have gotten from this customer. He referred me to his best friend, and I have been Ready Sealing his huge deck every two years, as well as two of the neighbors. That friend referred me to a business associate...you get the drift.

In just doing a small bit of work tomorrow, I'll be the best, most valuable contractor they have ever used. They will never forget my company. He will tell his best friend, and I'll look like a hero. I'm sure you get the idea.

In residential contracting, referrals are priceless. You can advertise like crazy, send out brochures and postcards, and buy a big space in the Yellow pages. Nothing in my experience comes close to satisfied customers that mention your services to others.

Today will be the best marketing I have ever done.

[plainpainter 217]

Ken - I know you love rubbing it in. About the Thompson's water seal. I am just trying to think of a strategy to get a deck job to last longer. When I stain a deck - I use a sealant that contains tung oil resins along with linseed oil resins, fungicides, trans-oxide pigments, and wax. As we all know the wax component is the first to disappear on decks. So why not use a product whose sole ingredient is wax on a deck prior to the winter. Don't you think that after staining a deck in may - come November the water beading tendency has disappeared. It was my thought - heck why just splash a coating of Thompson's water seal prior to the winter coming in - as a way to resist the winter snow harming the finish. Any thoughts? You know - a quick pressure wash and rinse - and a coat of wax over a deck that was sealed 6 months prior - could protect the sealer better prior to the winter storms.

-Dan

[plainpainter 217]

Rick, I don't know if you have ever run into this phenomena. But I have a friend that had this account. He would paint their outside - do the insides, he charged well - but did great work. And he did stuff like you are doing - gave them work for free to value him as a customer. I remember he took a piece of furniture and stripped it, sanded it, applied stain - took him like 3 days - and did it for free! I mean he was getting plenty of work from these people, so he was getting paid for lots of stuff. But another time - he blueboarded one of those closets that run along the eaves of a house - the kind you can enter in one room and reappear in another room. So he paid me to veneer plaster it - a $2,000 job - and charged them like $500 - again a freebie because they gave him so much work. Come time to repaint his house several years later - the guy bitches every way from shanghai about price. A guy who formally paid my friend without questions - and a guy my friend did lots of free work - suddenly years later becomes stingy, and totally has forgotten all the work my friend gave him gratuitiously. I think customers have a tendency to forgot lots of stuff you do for them and renormalize in their minds. They become accustomed to the fact you are doing them favors and start forgetting they are indeed just that, favors.

-Dan

[PLD 14]

The customer will try to pay me today, and I will not accept a dime. Why would any business do work for free? I'll try and explain.

[...]

Next, these people are retired and the husband has not been in good health.

[...]

Most important is the referrals I have gotten from this customer. He referred me to his best friend, and I have been Ready Sealing his huge deck every two years, as well as two of the neighbors. That friend referred me to a business associate...you get the drift.

I have one of those. He gets his house, a small driveway, and gutters done for $100 every year. If he is not home, he drives to my house and pays me same day. A few referrals, but no matter. He'll get the $100 special as long as he keeps calling.

[StainlessDeal 16]

A few weeks back, I got a call from a guy that had received my spring mailer.

He wanted a housewash, said he had done it himself until this year, every year, but was not his usual self lately. He said he was in his mid-80's now and not as spry.

I was on a job, but still spent 45 minutes on the phone answering questions, and I began to realize that he didn't get to talk to many people anymore. We set an appointment, but he had to cancel because of a bad report from his doctor.

I was pretty certain that I wouldn't hear from him again, but he called me today: I'll just say that it seems as if his health has taken an unfortunate turn. He was worried that I had invested time in speaking with him at length, so he wanted to schedule a housewash without an estimate.

I'm pretty certain this will be an affordable housewash whenever he requires one.