Oh Boy I need help Part 2

[Camelot 68]

Here are some pictures of the screens in question. They are 7 years old and the home owner told me he had a cat a while back and that sometimes it perched on the windowsill and leaned against the screens. He wants them replaced (5 or 6) as the home is on the market and he's sure the inspector will make him replace the screens. The torn screen is the worst...the rest have discolored spots with small tears in the center of the spots. There is no rhyme or reason as to which ones are facing the sun or not...very strange. Any advice? Thanks so much for any replies...

[Camelot 68]

couple more...

[Jeff 232]

They werent like this when you started? Some may be that you didnt rinse the 12% good enough, they were probably failing before you ever got there. How did you rinse, Xjet & fan nozzle. If you say they werent like this when you got there, your going to have to eat this one probably

Very strange to see them that bad

[Chappy 138]

their is absolutely no possible way the house wash mix could have done that. this home owner is trying to get you to replace already damaged screens. Those are cat claw holes, and are just plain degraded at the edges and the cat pushed them out. I would take your house wash mix with you, take a peice or new screen with you, get a him to cut out a piece of screen since hes going to replace them anyway, then dip them in the bucket of mix. if the old screen comes is damaged by your mix then do the piece of new screen. I guarantee you it will not be damaged. you should have somewhere in your contract that you are not responsible for things like that that are previously damaged or degraded. his fault not yours!!

[Jeff 232]

I didnt read the part about the cat at 1st, Looks like cat claws, walk away

[Camelot 68]

I don't know if the screens were like this or not...unfortunately I did not take pictures. I don't want to call the guy a liar...he IS a customer and he sincerely believes that I caused this issue. I wish I had some literature that I could show him proving that the house wash mixture would not be corrosive like this. I rinsed with an xjet (close range nozzle on first floor) and I simply can't believe that I would cause damage like this with it. I also didn't have any written contract (my fault), so I am sort of stuck. I'm not the handiest guy in the world, so I wouldn't even risk "rescreening" his frames myself...If I decide to replace them, any ideas as to where I could have them done?

[PressurePros 249]

That's a tough one. I agree, the screens had to pretty degraded but then again sodium hypochlorite is an oxidizer and will react with metal. The sodium metasilicate might have added to the problem. Thanks for sharing this because I am now going to make it a point to take pictures of any problem screens.

An X-Jet will cause problems with screens too..another reason I don't really like using mine anymore. What is the homeonwer looking for in terms of restitution? Do you have before pics of the house? I take pictures of every job now just in case they decide not to pay me. They would also come in handy in this type of circumstance.

PS: remove them and bring them to a hardware store. We were doing a screened in porch last month and my guy started the gun and the pressure spike went right through. It cost me $25 to replace the screen but this was a 3'x6' screen. Call around to your local hardware stores, they work with contractors and will get you in and out faster and give you a reduced rate.

[TNT Pressure Washing 14]

My Mom has a cat at this is what her screen door looks like. The one pic where it is just around the edges looks like something was trying to trim out the screen.

[Celeste 341]

Rescreening is really really easy, especially with those types - screening is pretty inexpensive, a spline tool is less than $2 and spline is cheap. I'd take them off, rescreen and color it experience. Plus you can later offer rescreening as un upcharge :)

Celeste

PS - Looks like cat damage to me too.

[Larry B 55]

My guess is the bleach is drying and deteriorating the exposed fibers in the screen. It is tighten and tearing the weak spots. They are rubber coated screens with cloth inside. Not really your fault but it wasn't quite like that before you washed the house either.

Like Celeste says it is pretty inexpensive to replace but just a PITA. Most of them you can leave the screen frames in to make it easier.

[Celeste 341]

Further lesson learned here......have the homeowners remove all of the screens prior to your arrival. If they need cleaned, add (or include) cleaning them with a mild soap while they are off of the house. Replace after drying. Makes getting to the windows to clean them ever so much easier as well :)

Celeste

[JFife 14]

not a housewasher here.....but like Celeste said, re-screening is super-easy. Matter-of-fact, sometimes with what I do, what you do, etc. it is easy to just get a description of a problem over the phone and say, "I'm sorry for the trouble, we've never heard of this before, it's a first for us, but I'll look at it" and just go fix it. I can tell you, for the time you've spent typing these posts, I could have replaced those screens. It's that fast/easy. Probably cost you $10 in material/tool at Lowes. I'd actually SUGGEST you go do this yourself, and not hire it, because this is a handy little skill to have. Imagine if a GOOD customer had five screens like that and was gone for the day, you have the products on truck, and spent 20 minutes and fixed them...bingo.

[Keth 15]

An X-Jet will cause problems with screens too..

Ken,

Can you tell me what the X-jet does that would cause a problem and what you do instead so I can avoid any mistakes with it?

Thanks,

Keth

[PressurePros 249]

I don't want to hijack the thread..in short an X-Jet operates with pressure. There is this little "beam" of water that is in the middle of the frothy spray that can sign aluuminum or vinyl sising and stretch or distort screens.

We downstream our chems for housewashes. We also remove the screens when a customer opts for our platinum level housewash.

[Keth 15]

Thanks Ken.

Back on topic. Just out of curiosity I checked my fiberglass screens on my screened in porch as they are about 7 years old as well. In the areas that are hit by the sun the most I see the degradation the worst with whitish patches throughout. I have a few holes that look like what you show in the area where my children play and I presume that is from the random toy being thrown into the screen.

The most interesting part I found was the same exact damage along the edges in one panel. It is a panel that contains the screen material looser than the others and it is on the side of the house that would get buffeted the most from the prevailing wind. It appears that it flapping in the breeze causes the edges to break down at the transition. This is just a theory but it may explain what you are seeing.

Then there is the big gaping hole in the metal screen on the door that was caused when my son decided to put a golf club to a use other than hitting a ball.......

:lgbonk:

[Kory 14]

Go half with the guy!

[Dave O 15]

Replace the screens. As stated it is cheap and at least for me easy. We replaced them all the time in the lumber yard for contractors. Just take the screen out and Tack it in place in all four coners with small nail to keep the screen square but not as high as to hit the screening. Then rip old out and put new in and the lift the screen out of the tacks and you are done and it should be square. Then hopefully all the screens are same size and the frames will fit perfect into the tacks again for the next one. This usually works best with a piece of plywood in the back of truck or a wood table at your shop

Remember your business is based on referalls.

[PressurePros 249]

Everybody has different skill levels. While replacing screens is not rocket science, by the time he goes to Lowes to buy the tools and the screening, removes all the screens, spends an hour on one making sure he does it right, pulling it apart because its too loose, having homeowner watching over him with a skeptical eye he could be out doing another housewash earning $300-$400. Not to mention that when the next storm comes an edge will come loose and he will get another callback.

I agree with Kory, split the cost and have someone do it.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

The screens are fiberglass and they will deteriorate with time and sun exposure. Most of what I was seeing looks like someone was pushing from the inside causing the fibers to break. Yes, I see the cat claw marks and the way the cat has made to screens bulge outwards.

I agree, it is unlikely that a house wash could have caused such a state in them to be this deteriorated. They are much older than the customer is telling you. Perhaps he is referring to a few he changed 7 years ago but that is not the case for the rest of them which are apparently quite older.

Fiberglass does not degrade with cleaners such as we use but with solvents such as acetone and formaldehydes and heat. They do not take stress very well as indicated by the pics showing the bulging. This is not necessarily your problem but here is a possible solution. Have the person buy the materials and you can re-screen them for him as a peaceful solution. Given the benefit of the doubt, it is a meet-em-half-way proposition.

The screens now come in vinyl, fiberglass or aluminum (black or grey) and the spline comes in different guage's. Make sure he buys the correct size spline or either of the following is possible: you will not be able to get it to stay in the channel or it will not fit inside the channel along with the screen. Buy a good quality screen roller tool and a cutting knife ($15.00 max). The screens will costs avg. $6.00/30' roll (enough to do several screens) and the spline will cost around $4.00-6.00 for 50-100' which is enough to handle several screens. Each screen should take about 10 minutes to change once you get the hang of it. Then, you can make this an add on service and charge $20.00-$35.00/screen to do it.

my .02

Rod!~

[Camelot 68]

OK...I received a call from a Grime Scene member this afternoon that clarified quite a bit for me, and may help others as well...He has decades of experience working with metal and offered some great insight! He explained that about 8-9 years ago, the window screen industry came out with a new screen that was essentially a nylon product that was "wrapped" in a steel covering. At the time, it was cutting edge for screens and became the norm for the industry for about 2-3 years before people realized the flaw it had...evidently, the steel covering would develop a layer of rust. Since 99% of people never touch their screens once they are installed, the screens looked seemingly fine from a distance. However, when the screen is "stressed" the rust comes off and exposes the nylon below which will absorb housewash, whiten, and possibly fray. This theory makes perfect sense to me. So while I didn't necessarily "cause" the issue, I certainly brought it to light when the housewash did it's job...clean. So I think I will do what Ken suggested and offer to have his screens repaired while offering him a "credit" of $50 or so to offset the cost. I think this may be a fair and equitable solution for both parties. I will propose this to him tomorrow and keep you posted. Thanks for all of your insights and help! You live and you learn.

- John

[JFife 14]

...This is one of those unpredictable things John----the reason that every job you do, the contracts seem to get longer and longer:) More things to disclaim each time you do a job.

[John Orr 206]

I added screen replacement as an option a few years ago. I either do them myself ($20 each) or take them to a local hardware store that does them for $15.

The screens in your pics appear to be installed backwards. The rubber gasket belongs on the inside - toward the window - so that the screen won't get pushed out from the frame. In your situation, I would offer to go halves with the customer.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

As I have always said...Don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger!

Rod!~

[jbruno 14]

go buy a screen, let it soak in house wash mix while you and the homeowner watch. after, rinse it with about 1200 psi. there won't be ANY rips in the screen. My helper (part-time helper, full-time knucklehead) has open up the wand with the x-jet on straight stream on a first floor window MORE than once and there was no damage. Actually his ears got damaged when I gave him a scream bath!

there is NO Way that house wash mix did that to the screens. those things were shot way before you showed up.

did you get paid yet?

[Washaway 64]

Tell him to eat his screens and that wish him lizard vomit in his shoes!!!

He is trying to take you for a ride and I wouldn't give in.

They look like that b/c they've been weathered and not b/c you washed the house.

(if you used absolutely no acid then you can call it a day and have a good nights rest)

I disagree completely with everyone here. Not only would I not replace the screens or go halfs on having them done but I would fire the client.

People like that are always looking for a free ride somewhere and further relations with them will only result in more headaches.

Let it be noted that I stand behind my work 101% and will take responsibility for my actions, however I will not be let anyone pull the wool over my head!

I hate people like that!!!!!

[Washaway is very angry right now]

[Tom DeFrancesco 23]

Definately CAT CLAWS. We have two of them and they each take there own window and have destroyed both screens almost identical to the pics you provided. Damn cats !!!