2 party system

[Jeff 232]

OK this should get some of you going. Election time is coming and hopefully the Dems will take control of Congress. So get out there and vote.

You all know Im no fan of our Prez, but I'm even less of a fan of congress. This country needs to have Dem control to help with the checks & balances in our goverment. There has been total Republican control for to long and the Republican, yes and Dems too only care about getting reelected

Bush can say and do anything he wants and has hurt us and alienated pretty much in the whole world except Britian. All his evel doers like Iran & Korea are doing what ever they want and are laughing at us, because they know we really can't do that much because we are bogged down in Iraq a war that was only going to cost us 10 million dollars (oops bad #'s)

I've read where some even some in the military say we are doing good,. Over 1/2 the Iraqee people want to see us dead. We have our military on extened tours.

The Republicians are out of control. Like Bush said he wants to get to the bottom of the CIA leak, its bulls--t it was his own people, but he sidestepped that by playing word games. Rumsfeld shouldnt still be there, he didnt have a plan past a few months, DUHHHHH.

Aberrooff is a crook and so arent a bunch of the Republican he gave money to. We have a Republican thats a peodophile who just resigned.

Allen Mr. Macacca who said he just made up the word, I knew that word since I was a little boy, He says he's never talked racial slurs. NEVER!!!!!! Who's he kidding, just be honest. Then he hides and lies that he's part Jew, get over it.

I dont want the Dems in to make things misrable for all, just to have a check & balance system again. One party in control of everything is not good for our country

So what do you all think.

JL

[Deck Guy 14]

Al Sharpton...Pres!

Howard Stern (as Buttman)...Vice Pres!

Now there's a team we can all get behind!

[Chappy 138]

"What's sad is the republicans are seeing what it takes to get votes from our increasingly apathetic society so they are pandering to it. They won't build fences on the border because they want the hispanic vote just like the democrats. I couldn't care less about the homosexual or abortion issue...my focus is on economics and freedom."

thats the main thing that ticks me off right now, the republicans are pandering. Thats one of the reasons they wont take serious mesures to stop illegal immigration. They want those hispanic votes. As for the homosexual and abortion issue, those are basic morality issues that define the base of the republican party. Back in the 50s and prior they defined the democrat party. The dems used to be for almost the same the republicans are for now-free trade, low taxes, etc... funny how they switched over time. I am absolutely against killing an unborn child for any reason, and dont tell me that republicans dont care what happens after the child is born. they give heavily to adoption agencies, crisis pregnancy centers, and even to charities that help single women. I dont care what homosexuals do, my next door neigbors are gay and some of the nicest guys in the world. puts me to shame that they are driving off to church today and Im skipping! But the activist in their community and in the Dem party want to teach my kids that its morally ok and encourage them to explore their sexuality even at a young age, whether hetero or homo. I want to controll what is taught to my kids.

Recent study came out, and Ill try to look it up later for those that wantt o check it out them selves. Married people vote overwhelmingly republican, single people people vote overwhelmingly Dem. (Of course their are exeptions) Is that because married people want to keep security, morals and low taxes a priority in their life? Is it that singles believe thier personal freedom is the most important thing to them. Look at the platforms, that is what the parties stand for.

Lastly, I dont want A bunch of uninformed people voting, If only 50% of the country bothers to know what the issues are, then only 50% of the people should vote. I was real fortunate that I wasnt yet old enough to vote in 1976, because if I was, I would have voted for Carter! I wasnt informed enough to know better.

[Chappy 138]

as for republicans favoring the wealthy, how do you explain these people,

Bill Gates-Dem

Warren Buffett- Dem

Peter lewis (CEO Progressive ins.)-dem

George Soros- whacco liberal dem

Hell even the pres. of fox news, Rupert murdoch, gives to democratic causes.

As for Congress? Heres the top twelve. notice how ten of them are dems.

Senate millionairesJohn Kerry, D-Massachusetts: $163,626,399

Herb Kohl, D-Wisconsin: $111,015,016

John Rockefeller, D -West Virginia: $81,648,018

Jon Corzine, D-New Jersey: $71,035,025

Dianne Feinstein, D-California: $26,377,109

Peter Fitzgerald, R-Illinois: $26,132,013

Frank Lautenberg, D-New Jersey $17,789,018

Bill Frist, R-Tennessee: $15,108,042

John Edwards, D-North Carolina: $12,844,029

Edward Kennedy, D-Massachusetts: $9,905,009

Jeff Bingaman, D-New Mexico: $7,981,015

Bob Graham, D-Florida: $7,691,052

So when Bush gave tax cuts to the wealthy, was he giving it to these people. Oh yeah, most of them voted for the cuts. then they accused bush of cutting taxes only for the wealthy.

[timbertramp 14]

Whats new. Our system was created by the elite and rich of our country at the time. What's changed. Every one of them is on the take in one way or another. You will have a hard time telling me that a person will spend millions to get a job that pays just a few hundres thousand dollers every four or two years, depending where they are at. Thats the way its been from day one. (Taxation without Representation) One reason for the big fight. Now we are taxed with representation and we are still not happy. (Electoral College) Started because communication was tough back then. Sure was but what a better way for the elite to control things. Notice we still have it today. I think communication is better. Sure things are not as good as we want. Hell I voted for Bush not because I thought he was the best but he was the lesser of the two problems. Was I correct, I don't know. I do know that I would not want to live anywhere else in the world. Been to a few other places and I like what I have. I have never been pro Dem or Rep. I vote a split ticket. I would really like to see some heavy By-partisan political work come out of the congress. To hell with political lines and lets work together to fix this great country. Write to your congressmen and women and let them know what you want, then write your views on posts like this but remember, your congressmen and women put these people in office. Blame them. Kem

[Chappy 138]

heres an interesting study I found, from right after the last pres elections. (Emphasis is mine)

New Study Reveals Link Between Voting Patterns and States' Economic Policies

WASHINGTON, D.C. –The sweeping Republican victories in the recent presidential election had many analysts concluding that moral issues explained voting patterns. But perhaps a better explanation is that the red states adhere to a different economic philosophy, one rooted in free enterprise and consumer choice.

A new study by the Pacific Research Institute, the U.S. Economic Freedom Index: 2004 Report, provides a ranking of economic freedom in the 50 states. Published in association with Forbes, the Index ranks states based on more than 100 variables, including regulatory and fiscal obstacles imposed on residents.

Some might find the Index rankings surprising. States such as New York, California, and Pennsylvania rank low in terms of economic freedom. States such as Kansas, Idaho, Colorado, and Utah rank high. The Index also reveals that restrictions on economic freedom cost working Americans tens of thousands of dollars over their lifetime.

PRI will release the Index at two panel events in Washington, DC.

OK, Im done for a while.

[WEW 14]

Most important thing is to vote period. WEW may not like harleys but he makes a valid point about voting.

Right, people have given friends, family and their lives so we can vote. Least we otta do is give a bit of time to do it, to thank them for it.

By the way, I actually do like Harleys. I just think there lemming and

lookatme bikes. Boneshakers! Just my opinion. You haven't ridden till you do a thousand miles a day on a BMW. Go to a Harley rally and most of them arrive on the back of a truck. It ain't the destination, it's the journey!

ISYHTRAH

[Deck Guy 14]

heres an interesting study I found, from right after the last pres elections. (Emphasis is mine)

New Study Reveals Link Between Voting Patterns and States' Economic Policies

WASHINGTON, D.C. –The sweeping Republican victories in the recent presidential election had many analysts concluding that moral issues explained voting patterns. But perhaps a better explanation is that the red states adhere to a different economic philosophy, one rooted in free enterprise and consumer choice.

A new study by the Pacific Research Institute, the U.S. Economic Freedom Index: 2004 Report, provides a ranking of economic freedom in the 50 states. Published in association with Forbes, the Index ranks states based on more than 100 variables, including regulatory and fiscal obstacles imposed on residents.

Some might find the Index rankings surprising. States such as New York, California, and Pennsylvania rank low in terms of economic freedom. States such as Kansas, Idaho, Colorado, and Utah rank high. The Index also reveals that restrictions on economic freedom cost working Americans tens of thousands of dollars over their lifetime.

PRI will release the Index at two panel events in Washington, DC.

OK, Im done for a while.

I don't believe in hindering business in any way, but I do believe that workers deserve protection from unfair business practices on the part of employers. So yes, before we have to argue about it, I support a fair minimum wage.

It would be helpful to know more. What exactly is "economic freedom"? I've never heard the term before. And who is "The Pacific Research Institute?" Here's a quote from thier web-page.

"The mission of the Pacific Research Institute (PRI) is to champion freedom, opportunity, and personal responsibility for all individuals by advancing free-market policy solutions."

They don't even claim to be unbiased.

Also, it would be important to establish a connection between voting patterns and "economic freedom." Is there a cause/effect relationship between the two? I would guess that the blue states average more shoreline than the red states too. Is it that guys who like to fish vote differently? Maybe more sailboat enthusiasts? We could also find that one group of states averages more rainfall, days of fog, minority business owners, acres of parks, etc...But is there a cause/effect relationship between these statistics and voting preferences?

For example, I'm usually sleepy by the time Letterman is over, so could we assume that Letterman causes me to be sleepy? Or, we could of course consider that I've usually been up for 18 hours at that time...but which is it??

[Jeff 232]

maybe we should vote for the guys that knew the Foley was a pedophile and didnt do nothing about it , because they wanted to keep his republican seat in florida. I'm not saying Dems wouldnt have done that too maybe. But the fact that they did nothing and kept him the chairman of Missing & exploited children just to keep the seat. Is why politics is so wrong nowadays and why we at least should have dems in control of congress instead of letting these republicans run anyway they want

JL

[Chappy 138]

maybe we should vote for the guys that knew the Foley was a pedophile and didnt do nothing about it , because they wanted to keep his republican seat in florida. I'm not saying Dems wouldnt have done that too maybe. But the fact that they did nothing and kept him the chairman of Missing & exploited children just to keep the seat. Is why politics is so wrong nowadays and why we at least should have dems in control of congress instead of letting these republicans run anyway they want

JL

You are absolutely right on this, on both counts. Dems would have done the same and that is what is wrong with politics. People are sinners. Some may be saved by the grace of God, but the sin nature is still there. If paryt leaders knew, then damn them and kick them out of office for thier moral failures.

But dont tell me that republicans were only being political when they tried to impeach Clinton for a crime (lying under oath was the crime not the *** part,) and then tell me that its ok for the dems to keep Ted Kennedy (at best a philandering lout, at worst a murderer,) because they only do it for the good of the country.

Their are damn good democrats who are against abortion and cant get the party to even here them, Remember Bob Casey?

Conservatism is about letting the economy work, allowing people to make thier own way in the economy and getting government out of the way so everyone can have the American dream. the poor have just as much chance of making it in this country as the harvard grad. that is what compassionate conservitasm is about. The republican party champions that along with moral issues that allow families to thrive. A solid family environment gives men the stability to work hard and make a good living. So some people have moral failings. I wish I could say I dont. And I bet no one on the other side of this can say they dont.

The democratic party is for more taxes, letting government decide whats good for us. giving the poor handouts with our tax money, because I dont deserve to be rich; and personal freedom- even if it means the degradation of the family and murdering unborn babies. that is the basis of each parties philsophies.

thier are good and bad people in both parties, just like thier are good and bad people in business.

the 2 party system gives a platform for people to decide which philosophy they like best and vote that way. Hell you can vote libertarian, communist, constitutionalist, socialist, or other if you want. but what we have now works. when it doesnt, our system allows us to change it.

[Deck Guy 14]

The democratic party is for more taxes, letting government decide whats good for us. giving the poor handouts with our tax money, because I dont deserve to be rich; and personal freedom- even if it means the degradation of the family and murdering unborn babies.

Somehow I'm guessing that isn't exactly how their party platform reads!

Here's a simple question. I have voted for candidates on both sides of the abortion issue. After all, there are other things such as national defense, economic policy, and foreign affairs, all of which affect the direction of our country. Have you ever voted for a candidate who supported a womans right to chose, based on his overall platform? I look at any candidate as whole, do you?

On the subject of an educated electorate...we went through that during the civil rights movement, and the Supreme Court found that it was attempt to deny the rights of American citizens (wave flag here). A more common philosophy is that the uninformed voters will cancel each other out. For every uneducated welfare recipient in Chicago, there is an uneducated gun-toting xenophobe in Alabama.

Truly though, when I see that someone posts on this board (and believes) that there are more illegal immigrant births than to citizens in Texas, I wonder if there shouldn't be some sort of test as well.

[Jeff 232]

You are absolutely right on this, on both counts. Dems would have done the same and that is what is wrong with politics. People are sinners. Some may be saved by the grace of God, but the sin nature is still there. If paryt leaders knew, then damn them and kick them out of office for thier moral failures.

But dont tell me that republicans were only being political when they tried to impeach Clinton for a crime (lying under oath was the crime not the *** part,) and then tell me that its ok for the dems to keep Ted Kennedy (at best a philandering lout, at worst a murderer,) because they only do it for the good of the country.

Their are damn good democrats who are against abortion and cant get the party to even here them, Remember Bob Casey?

Conservatism is about letting the economy work, allowing people to make thier own way in the economy and getting government out of the way so everyone can have the American dream. the poor have just as much chance of making it in this country as the harvard grad. that is what compassionate conservitasm is about. The republican party champions that along with moral issues that allow families to thrive. A solid family environment gives men the stability to work hard and make a good living. So some people have moral failings. I wish I could say I dont. And I bet no one on the other side of this can say they dont.

The democratic party is for more taxes, letting government decide whats good for us. giving the poor handouts with our tax money, because I dont deserve to be rich; and personal freedom- even if it means the degradation of the family and murdering unborn babies. that is the basis of each parties philsophies.

thier are good and bad people in both parties, just like thier are good and bad people in business.

the 2 party system gives a platform for people to decide which philosophy they like best and vote that way. Hell you can vote libertarian, communist, constitutionalist, socialist, or other if you want. but what we have now works. when it doesnt, our system allows us to change it.

It was the top 2 of republican congress that knew a year ago and let the pedophile be. You going to blame that on the democrats , the sinning moralless democrats. These republicans wrap themselves in the flag and carry a bible its all just a tool for them to get you to vote for them, they are a bunch of hypocrites. Do you really know if the dems would of covered up a pedophile congressman? The fact is we know who covered this one up

What gives you the right to say that all democrats or most have no morals. Who the hell are you? The Pope?

What gives some male congress or court the right to take away abortion. Are you a women? Make it a law that men cant the snip to stop from having children. I dont like abortion, but who's going to pay for all those unwanted babies, Republican? That would be a goverment handout program.

The fact is 99% of the republicans knew Clinton would not be fully impeached. They did it for purely political reason, its a fact. They wasted our tax dollars on a big scam, believe what you want . But most republican congressmen are no more moral than a democratic congressman. They are using you.

Its Bonyay & Dennis Hastard ( Wrong Spelling) That let the pedophile Foley stay. Are the republicans going to throw there Speaker out

Dont let your party fool you, there no better than anyone else

[Jeff 232]

Conservatism is about letting the economy work, allowing people to make thier own way in the economy and getting government out of the way so everyone can have the American dream. the poor have just as much chance of making it in this country as the harvard grad. that is what compassionate conservitasm is about. The republican party champions that along with moral issues that allow families to thrive. A solid family environment gives men the stability to work hard and make a good living. So some people have moral failings. I wish I could say I dont. And I bet no one on the other side of this can say they dont.

Give me a break our republican Goverment is spending our money like crazy, when they put W and a republican congress in charge, It was like kids in a candy store spend spend spend

Compassionate Conservitive havent heard that much lately. There's Republicans that champion moral issues , but they arent your republican congressmen. They are saying what you want to hear. Bush has LIED to his base so many times. Does a true conservitive really like Bush?

Bush said he would never be a nation builder HUH Make me laugh

Just because someone totes a bible doesnt make them better than me or more moral than any other person.

Plenty of moral republicans have gotten or paid for a abortions, they just wouldnt admit it

I live in the bible belt and know & see many bible toters that are drunks, wife beater, pervs and more. But because they are republican & tote a bible they are right..BULL----. I dont trust half the bible toters I know around here

I live my life and teach & will teach my children right & wrong I don't need some republican congress to tell me how to be moral.

Hell if I want to get a porn movie and watch it with my wife I will, If I want to drink a little to much & not go to church I will, If before I was married and had *** out of wedlock oh well. I had VERY good God fearing parents who taught me right & wrong and you know what they had *** out of wedlock too, just like most people in this country Republican or Dem

Republicans are NO MORE MORAL than anyone one else in large

You think the 1st time george bush got laid it was with Laura Bush, think not. Go a head and tell me his daughters a virgins, Impeach Bush for lying he's done it several times

[Jeff 232]

I'm going to drop out of this conversation some, I'm getting to worked up and I apologize for getting to worked up , but not for what I've said

Most people are good !!!!!!!!!!!! Republican & Dems.

I'm not putting down anyone religeous beliefs either. I've come a long way in my life its been a strange trip. I'm no better than anyone else and no ones better than me, thats all I'm trying to say

I hope our goverment straightens out someday and is more for the people than themselves, it asnt this bad 20 - 30 years ago

Sorry for getting worked up but it was some fun

JL

Vote Dem in 2006

[RyanH 14]

Seems like your primary issues with the republican party is their touted sense of ubermorality and stance on moral issues. It's like this....our country was founded as an escape from the overwhelming oppression of the church state. Why would we want to try and become that which we escaped? If you are against abortion, you and your immediate community should have it banned in your city. Once your city has it's issues worked out, maybe other like minded citizens can work on the county. Then the state. Once you have figured out the problem in your state, get with other states to work on a federal level, but don't think a president can bring about change of this magnitude...thankfully the president doesn't have that power.

If you want homosexual marriage to be legal, fine, make it legal. But don't call it marriage...marriage is a sacred ritual in a church (atleast for some of us). Call it a legal union, because that's all legal marriage is anyway. I can marry my wife and we can enjoy a special tax bracket. Why should the tax benefit only heterosexual couples? If you are going to be for true equality it must be unbiased and applicable to ALL citizens.

Seriously, the only reason you should truly support democrats is if you are in favor of the Robin Hood practice....rob from the rich and give to the poor. If you are in favor of singling out groups and telling them they are oppressed and are deserving of special things, go ahead and vote democrat. If you are in favor of telling people that all that matters is that you try with no mention of the importance of success, vote democrat. Just know, hold out long enough and republicans will be hammering the same mantra. GA is a fantastic example. Sonny (our governor) loves to talk about how he has supported the HOPE scholarship. He won't tell you that GA is near the bottom of the list in standardized scoring. Some good he's doing....people are going to college more than ever before, but they can't compete in grades with the rest of the country. Grade inflation is the culprit, of course teacher unions don't want to do much to change that lest individual teachers be pointed out as being inadequate in their profession.

Libertarians have their own group of problems and are also human and are prone to frequent acts of stupidity, but atleast they don't have a concerted plan to ***** out votes and make a mockery of this country. So, I'll put my votes with them almost everytime.

[JFife 14]

Libertarians have their own group of problems and are also human and are prone to frequent acts of stupidity, but atleast they don't have a concerted plan to ***** out votes and make a mockery of this country. So, I'll put my votes with them almost everytime. QUOTE BY RYANH

....See, this is what keeps me awake. Someone like Jeff is a lost cause. Ryan, I'm sure this has been proposed to you by others, but I'd like to hear your response. You've mentioned the weaknesses of your Repub. Gov. Candidate, but I assume he has other strengths I'd expect of a Southern Republican. For kicks, let's assume his opposition is Carol McKinney (no idea who his actual compitition is). And finally, a Libertarian candidate that nobody has heard of until standing in front of the ballot box.

VOTING IS YOUR RIGHT, YOU CAN VOTE HOW YOU SEE FIT. But I can tell by what you have to say, you and I would come down at the same place on 90% of issues. Would you vote for the Libertarian candidate because he is closer to being your ideal candidate, even though he has no legit shot at winning?? Knowing that by casting your vote, it could be seen almost as a vote for Carol McKinney?? I think it was Sun Su ("The Art of War") that said something to the effect of "my enemy's enemy is my friend". As I said before, I respect Idealism, but I also hate Democrats:)

[Jeff 232]

Lost cause, ME? Hate Democrats, Hate Republicans were we always so against each other. Its to bad we are so far apart, maybe our political parties are just mirroring us

I really really, really wish we could find a leader that could bring this country together, dem or rep. We'll never have everyone agree, but just find a man that people want to follow and over all is a good & a great prez. I know wishful thinking

[RyanH 14]

I really really, really wish we could find a leader that could bring this country together, dem or rep. We'll never have everyone agree, but just find a man that people want to follow and over all is a good & a great prez. I know wishful thinking

Zell Miller (former democratic governor of GA) would be the ideal candidate. Bill Cosby might be a good choice.

Currently we have no good choices for governor in GA, just lesser of to idiots.

*************************************

Sonny - Republican: talks about "sticking it" to the "big oil" companies, then in his commercial he has a clip of a fat black guy with a smug smile on his face just after he says this. Apparently he thinks/knows the population is dumb enough to thing that it is a government's place to "stick it" to private industry.

When the hurricanes were raging last year, he started a crusade for people to call in with cases of "gas gouging." Now, personally, I don't believe gas gouging exists. Fuel is a necessity and I will pay for it up to the point where the value i get from fuel doesn't match the cost they're charging.

Since he has been in office, GA has not advanced in national scoring. He can talk all he wants about the HOPE scholarship, but schools aren't getting any better. Personally, I'd be happy if every kid could read by the 3rd grade. We have high school kids who can't read, but oh hell yes atleast the scholarship is still in existance. He didn't even bring it in...that was a Zell Miller initiative. He talks about getting more money for teachers, but never mentions the people he will rape for taxes in the process. What he really needs to do is get some balls and start telling parents that education starts at home, but I guess that isn't politically correct. If he wants to better the education system, push for school vouchers and let schools compete for the money instead of just granting it by virtue.

Wants to stop state income taxes on the retired. First, if you are retired you don't HAVE any income unless it is through the form of interest from investments, so this doesn't have any real effect on them. But I guess a benefit for the old folks sounds good, so it's a voting point. Again, deception. He says "you've paid long enough, you deserve a break." Know what? I've paid more in my 10 years of working life in taxes than some people will pay in the next 40 of theirs. Don't I deserve a break?

I think he may have made a few attempts to bring industry to GA but inevitably the tax structures deter people and they end up building up north.

*************************************

Mark Taylor - Democrat: His slogan "The Big Guy for the Little People." Sorry, I'm not for any politician who is supportive of a particular group. As a state governor, he should be in favor of benefiting ALL Georgians.

He also wants to give more money to schools (this must be a big voting point for stupid parents) but doesn't say how he will get it.

He wants to make sure that every child in the state has medical insurance. So guaranteed medical coverage is now a responsibility of the government. Forget the fact that governments fund schools to produce doctors, now we have to also pay for the care. The only way to fund a program is to take the funds from someone else. Again, no mention of how he will get the funds, but I'll bet it involves me paying for those kids whose parents can't. So not only will I be working everyday to pay for my family's insurance, a portion of my income will now go to pay for someone else, against my wishes.

That's pretty much all he has. No big plans to improve school grades, no big plans to invite private industries to improve the job market. Basically he just wants to move into a government position where he can sit for the next few years, get paid (notice I dont' say "earn an income") and leave without making much of a difference. Classy guy.

*****************************************

Cynthia McKinney (sp?) - Socialist under democratic guise - Pretty much a waste of space to type about her. Anyone who hits a cop--whose responsibility it is to serve and protect--should just be kicked off capitol hill with a cold boot. He tries to prevent someone-who refuses to identify herself--from entering into a secure facility and she hits him then claims he is being racist.....who would vote for that type of blatant stupidity. BTW, she was a congresswoman and won't lower herself to run for a measly governor position.

So, given the options who would I vote for? The socialist who claims to be a republican or the socialist who claims to be a democrat? Neither because a vote for either would still give me a socialist in the seat. I'll vote libertarian ---knowing full well they will lose---because I don't want my vote for either of the others to be considered as support for the candidate. I don't support either. I voted libertarian in the Bush/Gore election because I got tired of them telling the media during the debates that the other had good ideas. They parroted each other. Gore was really just an idiot and Bush didn't seem to be that effective. I voted for Bush last time simply because I was too damned scared of Kerry getting in, but I still didn't necessarily support hiim (although it has nothing to do with the war...I'm all for keeping the war out of our homeland and fighting it elsewhere before it ever gets here). Thus ends my discussion on the topic.

[Deck Guy 14]

Wants to stop state income taxes on the retired. First, if you are retired you don't HAVE any income unless it is through the form of interest from investments, so this doesn't have any real effect on them. But I guess a benefit for the old folks sounds good, so it's a voting point. Again, deception. He says "you've paid long enough, you deserve a break." Know what? I've paid more in my 10 years of working life in taxes than some people will pay in the next 40 of theirs. Don't I deserve a break?

What about ME??? It's always MARSHA, MARSHA, MARSHA!!!!

Sorry, I couldn't resist, and most of you won't get it anyway, but...

Ummm...many people have retirement plans that are not derived from investment income. Ever heard of the US military? Auto Workers and other unions? Federal, State and Municipal Workers? Most major corporations?? It's definitely shifting away from that in the privarte sector now, but many current retirees get benefits through traditional retirement plans. Many of these people earn $30,000 plus from traditional plans, and pay thousands a year more in taxes than you or I would on that same amount of income, since they have fewer deductions (no kids, no mortgage). They constructively end up in a higher tax bracket because of this. You must not know any retirees!

I don't live in your state, but in some states that I am aware of, the point of similar changes was that certain government retirees weren't taxed on their retirement, but all others were. The changes made were in the interst of fairness more than anything. My father (who has two retirement incomes besides investments and FICA) got thousands back after retireees there sued the state and won because his state exempted retired state workers and no-one else. You might check to see if that's the case there. In any event, I have no problem with my mom and dad getting a break on their taxes. At least someone I know is benefitting, and I will someday.

[RyanH 14]

I get your quote, although I don't understand the relevance of the Brady Bunch to tax system. Good point about alternative sources of retirement income..I didn't consider those. Yet another reason for the Fair Tax, though....eliminate special interest tax brackets. And do away with that damned death tax while you are at it!

[Deck Guy 14]

You said:

Don't I deserve a break?

It sounded like something Jan Brady would say just before...oh well.

I'm with you on the fair tax and inheritance taxes as well, although most people misunderstand how that tax is applied and would never be affected by it. The problem with a fair tax is that alot of lawyers and accountants make their livings from our complicated system, so they are sure to fight it.

[Deck Guy 14]

Is it just me who gets chills when they hear the word, "homeland."

Reminds me of something from 1930's Germany. Hitler often spoke of the Motherland.

Deutcheland uber alles!

[RyanH 14]

What scares me is when I walk through the airport and I hear the recorded voice over the intercom: "By order of the director of homeland security...."

By order of? Director? Does sound like something that would come from "the motherland" as in Mother Russia.

[kevinw 14]

Truly though, when I see that someone posts on this board (and believes) that there are more illegal immigrant births than to citizens in Texas, I wonder if there shouldn't be some sort of test as well.

I thought I'd respond as an uninformed electorate...please check the following links.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4209908.html

http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2006/09/24/1924636.htm

http://news.pajamasmedia.com/business/2006/09/24/11002247_Border_baby_boom.shtml

http://www.truthout.org/issues_06/071806HB.shtml

http://www.cis.org/articles/2005/back805.html

http://www.alipac.us/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=1420

http://archive.gao.gov/paprpdf1/158747.pdf

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=27182

Just a few you might want to take a look at...of course, being uneducated, I did have to have someone help me with the big words. Don't like any of these? There are plenty more.

On the other hand, you have to ask "How many is too many?" I'm not a hate-monger, but I'm not naieve enough to think that nobody is footing the bill for all these births...that would be the taxpayers.

Of course, we can't just give them free healthcare...we also have to educate them, so they can become productive members of society. Off to school, kiddos. Get on the buses (that are already overcrowded) and go to classes (that are already over crowded). But wait...we can't have that many kids on the buses or in class...it's too many to teach with just one teacher. So, let's buy more buses, build more classes, hire more bus drivers and teachers.

Oh...the schools can't afford that? No problem, we'll just raise taxes.

They don't speak English, you say? No problem...we'll hire another teacher and teach them English...or even better, let's buy books that are printed in Spanish and teach them in their native language.

Back to the original statement...which you didn't like...how did this happen? Let's see...which party says the government should provide for everyone? That would be the Democrats. Which party fosters the myth that the rich aren't paying taxes? That would be the Democrats. Which party consistently rolls out more and more programs to make sure that the folks that don't work won't ever have a reason to go to work? That would be the Democrats.

Need more money? No problem...just have another baby! That would be the Democrats.

Which party is responsible for "not torturing" hostages in interviews. You said John McCain was responsible...but you forgot to mention a couple of dozen Democrats that were standing beside him...and I like John McCain...still do!

Republicans are pedophiles and perverts...well, we know one that is and he resigned. Now let's look back at a previous president that DIDN'T resign...denied it even when it was undeniable....a Democrat. Yes...they did spend a ton of money on hearings...but old Bill and Hill made it easier by denying, losing documents, hiding witnesses. But, of course, that was the Republicans fault.

How 'bout old Barney Frank?...a Democrat. Jack Murtha, he's a great guy...former Marine and all. Oh yeah, he did escape being indicted for taking bribes by the skin of his teeth...went to the meeting and got himself video taped...but at least he was savvy enough to realize he was about to get caught and got cold feet. But he is the bastion of what America is all about, isn't he?..a Democrat.

Best of all, don't forget old Teddy K. Wanna take a Saturday night ride with him? Think he's going to start paying more taxes? How about Kerry? He's work a couple mil...think he's going to get behind paying more taxes? If it will get them elected, I guarantee they'll say they will.

They are all politicians. I look at what the party stands for...and which candidate most closely reflects my values, then I vote for him/her...and hope he does what he says he's going to do! If he doesn't, I don't re-elect him.

If you want to know what the Republican and Democratic parties stand for, your responsibility is to take a little longer look back...and peek under the covers to see past the politics. Look back 20 - 30 years...see which party tried to take us in what direction.

You state that Bill Clinton signed off to provide free healthcare to all vets...yes he did. He also vetoed the bill to fund that healthcare. Kinda sad that the immigrants get free healthcare easier than our vets.

If you want to vote Libertarian...acknowledge that it is a symbolic, and futile, effort. Your vote will count for nothing more than taking a vote away from a Republican or Democrat. You are, in essence, voting against the most popular candidate...period.

Why not get active? Make your voice heard. Make phone calls, write letters. We need a change and we need it now. Not change for change's sake, but real change.

My wife is a school teacher and she's completely frustrated that public education isn't about teaching...it's about complying with requirements to avoid losing funding. My son is in the military...going into harm's way soon...and it scares me to death to see people jumping to conclusions based on what they heard on the news or heard from their buddy because that kind of decision making process means more people get hurt.

Don't listen to what they say...dig in and see what they've done, how they voted. Their record tells you who they really are.

kevinw

[jnoden 15]

I never liked labels and while i was young I tried to be neither Democratic or Republican. As I grew older though I realized that I was Democratic like it or not. I am for the working man. I have also worked in the social services field for years and I know that social programs are needed. Republicans complain about welfare, have a get tough on crime attitude and really think that everyone has the same opportunities to suceed in life. My inlaws who I love dearly are conservative republicans. I try to stay open minded and they are intelligent people but they only know from their own experiences. They are racist and dont even realize it. They think that a bull dozer should knock down all the houses in the bad part of the city and rebuild nicer homes. They dont understand that the people that live in these ugly homes are the people that work for $8hr and help to produce everything that we buy as consumers. Thats why there is such thing as a $.99 menu at BK and it is how we can pay so little for the things that we buy at Walmart.

"Give felons more time in prison". Great Idea, than when they do get out they have learned in prison how to be a better criminal, have no place to live and no job skills. That is why the national recidivism rate is already over 70%. Prison doesnt work. I know what works but republicans would rather spend $25k a year for each inmate than look in to a more proactive indirect approach.

"Support Our Troops". Who was the genious republican that invented this bumper sticker. I support our troops 100%. I do not support the cause. We are spending billions to create more terrorists. period.

"Stem Cell research is amoral". Your religious beliefs are not a good reason to stop funding something that WILL BE THE BIGGEST MEDICAL BREAKTHROUGH EVER. Researchers need a new line of cells to work with. The outcome several years from now will be more than anyone could have ever imagined. Including myself.

Pleas raise minimum wage. Nobody can afford to work for $5.25per hour. You cant even live off $7/hr. When you raise it it will in effect raise the salaries of many jobs that curretnly pay $8-$10 hr. The wealthy will make a little less but our country will flourish. People will want to get off welfare and unemployment.

"Bush is a genius". Thats right, nobody has ever said that.

[RyanH 14]

Pleas raise minimum wage. Nobody can afford to work for $5.25per hour. You cant even live off $7/hr. When you raise it it will in effect raise the salaries of many jobs that curretnly pay $8-$10 hr. The wealthy will make a little less but our country will flourish. People will want to get off welfare and unemployment.

If you think the wealthy will make less think again. You run a business. Your workers come to you and ask for a 50% hike in pay. What are you going to do? Decrease your level of comfort in your lifestyle? Take a lower pay yourself? Not hardly. You are either going to decrease your staff and expect more work out of fewer to compensate for the increased pay, you are going to raise your prices on your customers, your are going to invest in a technology to do more work with less people, or you are going to shut down your business and put your efforts elsewhere. Remember when you could buy a candy bar for $0.30 each about 10 years back? And now it's roughly $0.59? When the minimum wage increased, it increases prices across the board. Hershey's needs to pay their bottom workers more. The companies from whom Hershey's buy increase their costs. The grocery store raises it's costs. Lots of embedded costs in getting that product to the store, and an increase in the cost to produce it will cause an increas in the cost to make it. I think that's one of the principles behind inflation. When I bagged groceries and the minimum wage was increased, co-workers cheered. We were running each checkout lane with 1 cashier and 2 baggers. 3 months later, in a company where turnover was rather high and folks were quitting at a rate of 1 per week and another was hired in his place, we were running at about 70% of the previous staff level. The store stopped hiring as often. They reduced hours. Just try to go in a grocery store around here now and find a bagger at every counter. Most cashiers are bagging and rining up the purchase. I can guarantee you most companies will adjust their prices to acheive the same profit margin.