Correct Knowledge

[John T 744]

KEN FENNER-- Don't take this personal because I don't see anyone hear saying that you can't teach. You may very well be a great teacher. I guess when the day comes that you do this if your not doing it already only your students will know how good you are and with that your reputation will grow.

You know the type guys that Tony is talking about. The ones that come on the net and tell everyone how they get 25 cents a sq ft for the tons of commerical work they have and they preach about this to all and get newbies excited about this then puff that big mouth is gone and the poor newbies find out there lucky if they can get 4cents per sq and then boom there out of business. Nobody is pointing fingers at you.

Scott Stone is another one that could be a very good teacher in this field if his heart went that direction. I read some of his articles in the past and I would feel comfortable to take a class that he would teach.

Besides possibly being an excellent teacher at everything or just a great talker I would have a problem taking this type of guys class if I knew he was not successful in this business. I would also have a problem taking any class from anyone who's only intention was to push there products no matter how successful they are.

Still it doesnt mean that a company like Cabots can't bring in a guy that never ever did any field work and happens to be a great teacher. Because this company is successful I could attend that class.

You want reputable and credible people teaching classes thats all. If a Ken Fenner is a reputable and credible guy and he wants to be a teacher then you want him to teach. If Joe shmo who has no crediblity and is advertising on the Net how you can make $100,000's of thousands Powerwashing in your first year and take my class for $500 to learn this..well that guy is the one that kills it for the newbies. I should know. I bought that book yrs ago called "The Lazy man's way to make a Million" yrs for $10 and read the 60 page book cover to cover and then read a few yrs later how the author ended up in Jail because of all these con artist books he wrote..Lesson besides me being a dumb ass at the time..You want a REPUTABLE/CREDIBLE Teacher. In NY teachers need so many yrs to get there master degree's or there gone..I like that! I want my kids taught by people with higher education and considering the fact that teachers make over a $100,000 here they standards should be raised.

[Barry M 73]

It depends on what it is your wanting to learn. I feel like the tech stuff like how to use an xjet, how to downstream, what unit should I buy, where can I get gutter cleaner, what pump do I use for roof cleaning, and etc can easily be learned on the boards if you weed thru the BS and get to know a few guys and even meet them at RT's or talk to them on the phone and take notes. That's the easy stuff. Guys used to learn this crap on their own before the internet existed.

As far as marketing, advertising, sales, and business management, you let me know when someone can even hold a candle next to Ken F. This stuff isn't taught for free or in college. You have to invest time in yourself to learn this stuff. You have to read, attend seminars, research, and network. I have mentors here locally that are successful business owners, and I pick their brains all the time. What I've found is guys that have been around for years don't realize that what worked yesterday doesn't work today. Times have changed and so has traditional marketing techniques. Ken practices and openly discusses the aggressive marketing techniques I am interested in learning. Now others may teach this but the problem is they are trying to cash in on it by charging $2,000 for a seminar, when that kind of money is involved, then I would be asking myself who is this guy and is he qualified to teach me what I want/need to learn to be successful? Is he up to date on his methods? You see it doesn't matter if I'm certified to restore a deck or have a fancy logo on my letterhead if the damn phone ain't ringing.

As far as products, it's a no brainer, ask a rep at the company that manufactures or distrubutes the products or go to a seminar. Those folks would be qualified to teach because they only know that particular product.

IMO taught classes for certifications are a waste of money because the people teaching the classes only care about their own interests. It's politics and it's all about money. Just like the government, it's a joke. A newcomer can learn a ton more hands on training by practicing labor for learning with an established, successful company. It's a win win for both parties involved. If I had my choice to: (1) take an expensive certification course to learn log home restoration or (2) go work for free with an established company that does this stuff everyday. My choice is 2! Not just because it's cheaper but I would learn way more because folks that get out there and actually do this stuff and make a living are more qualified teachers in my book.

If folks are here wanting to learn and are intelligent enough to have started a biz then they are smart enough to weed thru the little bit of crap on the boards, and pick and choose whom they want to learn from. No they shouldn't believe everything they read. I'll tell them now: HEY NEWCOMER READING THIS, DON'T BELIEVE EVERY SINGLE THING YOU READ ON THE BOARDS, BE CAREFUL WHOM YOU CHOOSE TO LEARN FROM. There that wasn't hard. I don't think it's fair that some newcomers get sucked into an expensive cert class thinking that's going to make them rich. They should be able to aquire enough FREE information so they can make a more informed and intelligent decision. That's what the boards do and have done for me. What I've learned is I will decide who I think is qualifed to teach me what I want to learn, I will not let an individual or an organization tell me who they think is qualified. Just my .02 cents of course.

[Celeste 341]

Oh but Barry, if we are on here weeding through, we must not be busy!!! Maybe we need to learn from those guys that are soo busy they're doing their wood work IN THE DARK!!!! lol

[tony szabo 14]

Celeste,

I prefer some times not to post as much because of what is Now happening here. Things are now geting out of text and things are now being said to form negative opinions about people. I'm not in need of the attention or drama that is what this post has become.

This is very easy

How can I find good quality education to better my business. I'm sorry, but there are to many out there with not egough experience that are trying to guide this industry. Thats all!

[Barry M 73]

Oh but Barry, if we are on here weeding through, we must not be busy!!! Maybe we need to learn from those guys that are soo busy they're doing their wood work IN THE DARK!!!! lol

Yeah, I've heard that one lately too. "If someone is sooooo successful and busy then why are they on the boards all the time?" It's like they think if your posting all the time you must not have much hands on experience and all your knowledge is book knowledge. Sure whatever!

I guess it could be blammed on the holidays or many guys are dealing with cold weather right now but I truely believe no matter how busy I get, frequenting the boards is part of my work day. It's something a lot of people overlook as being a part of running a successful business. It's called NETWORKING and I recommend to anyone if you want to succeed you better be doing it.

[Celeste 341]

Tony, don't you get it though? If there are those out there with the knowledge and expertise that you are looking for.....where do you think you're going to find them - the yellow pages? And for you to only drift in and speak out once a year or so, how does that go toward your veteran experience helping to guide anyone? As far as forming negative opinions about people, you might want to check yourself since you started this thread disparging a fellow contractor for wanting to help his industry.

Celeste

[tony szabo 14]

With the efforts of 55 post and 912 views and a ton of opinions, there could have be several classes started by now. I'm not trying to guide at all, Just stating That there are to many trying to guide with very little experience.

This is great traffic for Beth.

[Barry M 73]

Celeste,

I prefer some times not to post as much because of what is Now happening here. Things are now geting out of text and things are now being said to form negative opinions about people. I'm not in need of the attention or drama that is what this post has become.

This is very easy

How can I find good quality education to better my business. I'm sorry, but there are to many out there with not egough experience that are trying to guide this industry. Thats all!

Look, I'm not trying to form any negativity about anyone. I have an opinion just like you. I agreed that you make a good point about some folks not being qualified in your eyes. I'm not trying to start anything, I think we can discuss this in an open, civil manner. Like I told you on the phone, I've missed your insight the last couple of years. IMO the reason why this issue will never be resolved is because, who is qualified? I mean everybody is going to have different opinions on who is qualified in their eyes. Is it someone in biz for 20 years, is it someone with a certification, someone with a title, someone associated with an organization, or someone who charges an arm and a leg for a seminar. I know your saying some that have no business and or experience are trying to teach and coach others and shouldn't be but...... All I want to know is what does QUALIFIED to teach others mean in your opinion Tony, pertaining to this industry?

[JFife 14]

check yourself

Celeste

Go girl!!LOL:)

[Celeste 341]

Well while everyone is deciding who is qualified to teach what and where to find these folks, those of us who don't feel the need to stagnate will continue to network via TGS, other bb's and Round Tables where I, for one, continue to learn something EVERYDAY about our industry, where it is going, who is helping or hindering, what I may or not need to do for MY business to achieve MY goals (which just for the record is not to make a million dollars and have many many employees). Each visit to me is a potential eye-opener, a new way to market, a quicker way to reach a goal, a motivational post or to welcome a new friend.

It is beyond my comprehension WHY certain people, supposedly so successful, are so visibly shaken and threatened by contractors willing to help each other. Contractors networking with no other ulterior motive other than to make the industry better for ALL of us has clearly gotten some BVD's all wadded up. Sorry. We won't be stopping any time soon.

Celeste

[Don M. 14]

Just stating That there are to many trying to guide with very little experience.

Me personally, I am not trying to "guide" anything.

Look, I personally got so fricking tired of reading post on "If your a downstreamer your an idiot" and "if you use an xjet your a retard". I dont care if you use your mamas bleach from the laundry room and fill up water ballons to rinse. I DONT CARE!

What I do care about is how to grow my business through marketing. This is what I felt like I needed the most help in. So call me selfish, but I grabbed the bull by the horns and I am hosting this roundtable.

Since I am hosting it and laying out the initial cost on everything, I feel like I get to call the shots on how its run, who speaks, the format, so forth and so on.

With that being said, my personal opinion is the speakers I have lined up I hold in high regards, and I give them the utmost respect.

Now through all of this, and this aggravates me, one speaker has decided he would rather find someone else talk about his topic. Thats fine, and I dont have a problem with that, but I feel like this B.S. has possibly instilled some fear in him and he's gun shy. But I respect his decision and I still consider him a good friend.

Listen, take this for what is worth to everyone, and if I come off sounding like a jerk, I aplogize. If you want to come to the STL roundtable and listen to some good guys about how they do their marketing for their business, then come. If you dont, then dont. I put together the list of people I want to hear because I want to learn.

BTW, I did a lot of research on Ken Fenner. I like Ken very much. I dont really know him, and he really doesnt know me. But I read in one of his old post that he did 5 figures in one month, and it was more than I made in a whole year. So someone like that "qualifies" him in my opinion.

[PressurePros 248]

Barry (and Don), I appreciate the kind words, I really do but I am not a guru, I am not an expert. I had to be taught just like everyone. I don't even like reading this kind of stuff though because jealousy rears its ugly head and then I hear "that Fenner guy thinks he is some kind of talent.. what gives him the right?"

When I give, I get in return. I make mistakes like all of you. I understand Tony's point and I agree, learn from those that have a bit more experience. What I don't agree with is thinking I am so smart that I have to go to the top of the food chain for advice. A guy with one year's experience has plenty to teach a guy that has one week's worth. You've been around, Tony. Many can learn from you but you choose to disparage what is a very successful exchange of information. What did you expect to hear in return?

You have to understand, when you come here spouting tidbits and opinion with no credibitlity to back you up (ie no posts and most don't know you from Adam), you become one of the people you warn against. You've made 20 posts in three years. Other than ego and self proclaimation, who are you to advise on this topic?

You say:

"I prefer some times not to post as much because of what is Now happening here. Things are now geting out of text and things are now being said to form negative opinions about people. I'm not in need of the attention or drama that is what this post has become."

Huh? What was the purpose of this thread then? You want to waltz in drop a comment and then expect everyone to say "Yeah that Tony, he nailed it. No need to rebutt his opinion" (??) C'mon man. I'm not trying to give you drama or however you phrased it, but do you think everyone here is such an idiot that they cannot figure out when they are getting bad info? That every business owner not part of some organization can't possibly figure things out on his or her own? That elitist BS is what gets certain crews into trouble. Don't believe the hype, brother.

[Celeste 341]

Thank you for speaking up Don......these are OUR Round Tables. We all own our own companies and until someone steps up and pays MY bills, don't start telling me how to grow my business, who to learn from and WHERE to spend my time.

There is NEVER going to be an organization that satisfies everyone....some folks need to just get past that and realize that not everyone fits with everyone. It doesn't mean we're unqualified or don't have enough experience to help each other.....or maybe we're just not LEMMINGS, blindly following the "leader" off the cliff!

Don, Barry, Ken.....I will help your function in anyway I can. I actually have quite a bit of literature that Nationally recognized companies and organizations have provided me. They will be getting table top displays that I will be more than happy to send your way with Bob. Far as I'm concerned, they can make the whole circuit of RT's. My contribution, my nickel.

Celeste

[tony szabo 14]

Berry,

That is a great question. This is where the industry is unsettled, Who's Qualified? Instead of people trying to drag me down because I have not been on the board for a year or so lets do this.

Time for everyone to go to work here, Instead of the drama lets ALL awnser Barry's Question and get something done here, its apperant that people are interested in this issue.

Who is Qualified to educate the Pressure Washing Profession?

1. Vendors of their products

2. Proven Marketing experts by there peers or industry.

3. Successful pressure washing companies of more than 10yrs by their peers or industry.

Now keep this list going and ad to it

[Jarrod 22]

Wow, this Midwest round table is getting a lota hype! I truely believe that all who attend will walk away very informed.

Newbies and vets, just think about how much time & money you will save just by coming to this event!

I'll put it this way - If I had gone to a round table event like this exact one 5 years ago, I would have been making waaaaaay more money than I am right now!

THINK ABOUT THAT!

If you just would attend this round table, you will bypass a TON of headaches, save a TON of money, & fast foward your business about 2-3 years! I dare you to come!

Tony, you are in the midwest. Why don't you attend? I would like to hear some of your tricks of the trade.

Celeste, I have always liked your views on things. I know what you are saying about certification. I know several contractors in my area that are certified in many areas of wood care. My company does 5 to 10 times the work that they do, makes 5 to 10 times the money that they do and we complete jobs twice as fast as them with 1 guy as opposed to 2 or 3 of theirs. All of those "certified experts" have been in business for 10+ years. Who would anyone rather learn from?

[JFife 14]

.....And remember, one doesn't have to have "experience" or "first-hand" to make a good teacher/instructor. Ask any History teacher. One can teach expertly merely from reference.

[Celeste 341]

Okay - back up. Why 10 years? I distinctly remember a thread on the now defunct PWNA bbs that didn't use years for qualifications. Why not decide first what a REAL qualifier would be.....is it years of experience, by one person or a cumulative total within a company....or should it be by the literal amount of square footage cared for?

Celeste

[squirtgun 122]

The first post of this thread had a certain stench to it.Kinda smelled like sour grapes or maybe poo.It was all uncalled for and I think there was an ORGanized agenda behind it.

:lgwave: HI my name is Scott Karvonen.You can find my contact numbers in my signature.

AND

Yes, I can be somewhat out spoken,but that is me all the time.I don't pretend to be something I'm not and never will.

[Celeste 341]

And let me throw out this last one.......since we're not calling any names anyway. PLEASE tell my why I should want to take a marketing course from a particular organization that HAS been around for more than your alloted decade that NO ONE knows who they are? Does the new "industry teacher" advertise? Where, pray tell. Not through the mail, not at any major cleaning tradeshows and evidently no longer in the industry cleaning magazine. Boy, that's gonna get their phone ringing.

Celeste

[Celeste 341]

And while I am ranting, Grass Roots Events IS NOT AN ORGANIZATION. It's purpose was never to do anything more than to promote education or networking. I'm willing to bet that more Round Table registrations have come through that lovely little FREE service that a CONTRACTOR unselfishly provided.....I know I've gotten over 30 emails for mine, don't know about Don's or Tom's but somehow I suspect combined we have more interest in small contractore organized events that are tailored to our interests than a big ole event.

Celeste

[JFife 14]

Berry,

That is a great question. This is where the industry is unsettled, Who's Qualified? Instead of people trying to drag me down because I have not been on the board for a year or so lets do this.

Time for everyone to go to work here, Instead of the drama lets ALL awnser Barry's Question and get something done here, its apperant that people are interested in this issue.

Who is Qualified to educate the Pressure Washing Profession?

1. Vendors of their products

2. Proven Marketing experts by there peers or industry.

3. Successful pressure washing companies of more than 10yrs by their peers or industry.

How about "None of the Above"??? How about, "Anyone that can teach successfully and educate their students correctly". If that's Tony Szabo or Tony Soprano.....who cares??? As a "student", all I care about is what I learn that's applicable. A successful PW Co. does not equate to a good instructor of coursework, or even the ability to create good coursework. I'd even go so far as to say that you (you, personally) would probably have a lot to offer in the realm of business that might not be that valuable to many in other markets (I'm assuming this from the fact you appear to be located in farm country, where marketing, positioning, etc. would be different than it would be for someone in Ft. Lauderdale. Again--assumption--but the point would remain either way).

[newlook 265]

Hello Tony,

I don't know you personally but have heard nothing but good things about you. All of us on this thread (including you) are very passionate in what we believe in and have a keen interest in the future of our industry.

There are more "things" going on in our industry today than ever before and for the 1st time we are seeing efforts being made by individuals and independent groups to harness their knowledge, life experience and credentials to better serve those that are in this industry.

I would suspect that over the last several years all of us on this thread has looked at the PWNA at one point or another for the necessary guidance and direction one would expect from a national organization. For whatever the reason(s) are or were, the PWNA unfortunately has yet to fill that void that individuals were or are looking for.

What I am observing in our industry today is that folks got tired of waiting around for the fireworks and decided to start their own i.e. ~ new websites, marketing programs, round tables and etc.

In years past we have seen valiant efforts from one or two groups to "change things" but for whatever the reason(s) were those groups never really got the agenda off the ground and the org. that was representing the industry was still the common denominator in industry discussions. I do not see that being the case these days.

I truly believe that folks are taking matters into their own hands and running with creative ideas as to how to further our industry presence. Whether it be a roundtable, a private discussion, a new thread on the BBS, a new website, a new marketing clase and etc.. Now granted, some of these ideas and/or initiatives may fall by the wayside but I have all the respect for folks like Cujo, Ken F. and even the Grassroots.org ~ at least they are trying something they did not get elswhere in this industry. If they fail ~ so be it ~ as fellow powerwashers we will be there to help them get back on their feet!

So, what does my post have to do with this particular thread...nothing directly but hopefully it sheds some light on the mood of things out there! To be honest I think people are tired of being tired! Just my .02

[squirtgun 122]

Celeste,

Just remember three letters.

PWM

[Celeste 341]

Yippee Carlos! Nice points!

Celeste

[Celeste 341]

Ohhhhhh Scott....noooooooo LOL

Celeste