WARNING....Has this happened to you too?

[Christopher 102]

Hello Everyone, I have a post that is difficult to type as it stirs a lot emotion and feelings and probably will with others also. This post is not intened to upset anyone but make you think about your future in your business. I will also post this to other boards that I visit. I was about to do a job the other day and the customer started asking a lot of questions about chemicals, where I get them, prices, and started naming names that sounded very familiar. She asked me to answer something but asked me to go inside her living room where she had a laptop opened to The Grime Scene. She started asking questions about my cleaning chemicals, roof cleaning chemicals and wood restoration chemicals and why am I charging here the prices I am charging. I just did not know what to say. I just stood there for a moment quiet and she mentioned that "Thanks to this bbs, I could go buy the machine, chemicals and do it all myself and save a lot of money and show my friends who visit all the time my new skills." This was very upsetting and I still did not know what to say. I mentioned that I do travel all over getting experience and training from professionals from around the country and you could buy a machine but you might not know exactly how to do it. I was trying very hard not to argue with her. She said " It is telling me right here how to do everything I need to know so why do I need you?" I mentioned that she could purchase or rent the machine but if you have no experience with chemicals, there could be a very serious reaction if you mix the wrong things or spill something. She said she read about the MSDS and in a lot of the letters people wrote there were a lot of answers on how to do it all. She said she just did a search on pressure washing and found things from this bbs and started reading and telling her friends. I said that I need to start work because I have another job to do after this one and I do not want to be late to that one. She said she needs to reconsider about the price. I told her we had a deal and she said it was a fair price. She said now she knows how to do it thanks to the site and will do her next projects herself. I asked her if she wanted me to do the job because if not, there is no reason for me to be there and I can be early to my next job. She said I could do it if I take off $100 dollars off the whole job. Since I am saving up for Disney World, I said ok but only this time. I really wanted to just walk away but the thought of seeing my son sad about the trip just broke my heart. I was not happy. How could this happen? I thought all the things we talk about here are private from regular people? Can anyone just start reading here? What about the other forums on other boards? I have discussed a lot of things here that I thought were private and not for my friends and neighbors to read. I am wondering how could this happen? I thought you had to register to read this stuff. Well The Grime Scene was right there on her laptop. I am wondering if this has happened to anyone else? If this is a trend, this will cost us a lot of money in the long run. I price my jobs very fair and reasonable. I am not out to rip anyone off or do anything unethical. I just do not understand how this can happen. Can someone explain how my neighbors and customers can read my posts without registering? OR can they register and read the posts? I really thought everything here was confidential and out of the public eye. I just do not know what to say. I was speechless when I saw her computer. Can someone explain to me about how this could happen? When I got home, I picked up a magazine to read and what do you know? There is an article on Wood Restoration in The Family Handyman on page 48 titled "Deck Rescue, Make your old, shabby deck look like new." They mention in the 3rd paragraph that the cost of rejuvenating an average sized deck is about $250.00. I read the article and they have good information and know what chemicals to use and some tips I thought only the pro's knew. I do not know where they got their info from but it sounded like they knew a pro and asked a lot of questions. I hope the Deck people do not lose any business. I am not trying to blame anyone on what happened to me but I am wondering how someone with very little knowledge on computers can access the board and forums when I thought you had to register to view them. I am hurt over losing the money and probably a customer but if more people start doing this, we all might start losing money and customers and I know a lot of you out there have a lot more invested in your companies than I do. I hate to ramble on and on but What do you do when a customer does that to you? I hope more people do not access the forums and learn how to do things that it took some of you many years and tens of thousands of dollars to learn along with blood, sweat and tears. This is people's jobs and careers we are talking about here and not just a fluke. This coud be a start of a trend most of us do not want to see. This was just a housewash, what if it were a Deck, Log Cabin, Concrete Restoration, Roof Cleaning or Arbor job? Just something to think about thats all.

[Christopher 102]

Wow! 37 lines and my fingers are tired after all that. I hope nobody gets the wrong impression of me but I am wondering if this had happened to anyone else.

[squirtgun 122]

It happens...there are internet savy HO's and they do research about services before they hire contractor.I've never come up against one,but if I do it won't become an avenue for them to beat me down on price.

I would prefer that BBS were register to read,but most are not.The vast majority of HO's that do research our industry online are only doing it so they know how to hire a legit contractor.

Chris if she didn't need you she wouldn't have called you.She used the BBS to beat you down on price and she should be ashamed of herself for doing it.

[Don Phelps 85]

I'm just wondering how much she's enjoying reading this right now......:lgwave:

[Christopher 102]

I do feel beat down, I am hurt, I just need a big hug.....Just kidding. Seriously though, I am pissed about it all. The last thing I would want my customers to see is me talking about things I am new at or do not know that much about. I thought that there was some privacy here.

[PressurePros 248]

Ever hear the term "see you next tuesday". The lady was a chump and treated you like one. Don't let it bother you.

I'll contribute $100 if others will jump in and we can give Chris the money he would have made on that job so he can go back and tell this lady to get bent (if this were a private forum I wouldn't be so PC with my choice of phrasing)

[squirtgun 122]

It happens...there are internet savy HO's and they do research about services before they hire contractor.I've never come up against one,but if I do it won't become an avenue for them to beat me down on price.

I would prefer that BBS were register to read,but most are not.The vast majority of HO's that do research our industry online are only doing it so they know how to hire a legit contractor.

Chris if she didn't need you she wouldn't have called you.She used the BBS to beat you down on price and she should be ashamed of herself for doing it.

Let me rephrase this.............I've had customers research the business to be better educated,but they haven't used the info in the manner in which Chris decribes.I still think it was done to beat you down on price.

Maybe she'll register and chime in with her point of view.

[bigchaz 157]

I would have told her if she was so interested in doing it herself to go ahead. Have her kill all her plants, burn her eyes, and probably destroy her roof.

If she wanted to actually do it herself she would have. The fact that she was willing to hire you with a 100 dollar discount proves she was only using the info to talk you down.

As for the article in the magazine about decks. If people are set on doing their own deck its going to happen. The people who use my services are ones who realize that A) its not worth their time B)they cant do the same quality of work

To be honest if someone confronted me with something they read on one of these forums, I would tell her the truth: That the site is designed for contractors to share methods and work out problems with other professionals. If she is interested in getting into the business she can look forward to competing with my company until she goes out of business

[John Orr 206]

I own a garage-full of tools and have read many books on car repair - but I still take my vehicles to a mechanic. I know how to trim a tree, build a house, have a baby (!?), an operation - I've seen it many times on TV - but I am not likely to do these things myself.

I would have politely stood firm on my price, say I would be disappointed if she decided to do it herself, but for liability reasons I would not offer any advice.

There is no "magic" in what we do. Knowledge is one thing, and I always try to educate my customers, but experience (and insurance) is what adds value to our services - whatever we do.

[Jeff 232]

You screwed up, you should of never let this lady beat you down. I've had people try to tell me what they will pay and I say call me if you need me as I'm walking off their property

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Most everything in online forums are viewable to public via actual membership or as a guest user. Exception would be pm system and subforums passworded due to things like rated content, forum management use, sponsor use, good ol'e boy clubs, etc...Why worry about it though. If we live online as we do in real life with integrity and character then it doesn't matter if people lurk and learn if they so desire. My personal opinion is I would never promote the idea of suppresion of knowledge as I feel it would eat my soul and affect my ability to gain or keep respect.

What this lady doesn't get is that such info to do things herself has always been available through some means or another. Trade magazines, trade schools, engineering/chemistry/mechanics classes are available. If she a DIYer then more power to her. If she wants to blow 3 times what the job would cost for ALL the equipment in order to do it right as well as throw away a weekend or more of her time in purchasing and researching things then good for her. She must have lots of time on her hand. But I would ask what kind of laziness has kept her on her butt til now or what kind of brain disfunction has infected her with the idea that people can't clean things on their own if they have skills and required equipment. Above all I would ask her where she gets off wasting your time if she wanted to do it herself in first place. Time is money....You were there to serve her as we are in a service business. If she is so nieve to think that the main purpose of business is something other then making money and showing growth oriented profit then she obviously should take some classes related to business first before attending the acredited school of penny pinching....

Can't blaim a person for interviewing you on what you bring to the table far as quality but putting you on the spot with this forum info and rates and then trying to shame you into sacrificing your well thought out convictions of pricing your company to suit your perticular market is simply low down. That's not to say it is low down for her trying to save money or by her comparing you to other businesses you might be in competition with in your area but it is low down to relate her worth to your worth as a bargaining chip while in the process of hiring a service. She should do that before hand before wasting hard working peoples time.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

If you want to know which forums are private and which are public here on TGS (we have both) then log out and look. We have many that are private.

This is exactly the reason why we try so hard to keep things professional here. (in other words no locker room, no romper room) People do surf and read. You can also get work this way, I know we have, and so have others.

Chin up!

Beth :cup:

[814jeffw 71]

There's one thing these boards do not teach. Reading how to do something is one thing,... having the EXPERIENCE to do it is another thing altogether. I've never been cornered in the way you mentioned, and probably never will be. I am steadfast on price because as soon as you start doing instant reductions you're cheapening yourself and your service. I price work on the "What is it worth for me to do it" method. I've had people tell me they had other estimates that beat mine, I say, then that's who I'd probably call because I'm not budging,......usually just a rouse to get you to bring your price down, otherwise they would just have called the other guy.

Jeff

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Just because someone has found this site and has all the information, they have not the experience in technique, forensics or methodology. They have book learning and without practice is just information.

I would not have let anyone bargain price just because they found this or any other site that has information. It makes no difference. Your experience has value and perspective as someone who has done it vs someone who has not yet applied it.

Many who visit here after reading all they can from this site still experience trial and error because what is described here is not structured learning. It is in fact hodge-podge because nothing is posted in a manner with which anyone can possibly avoid all the pitfalls associated with this field of work.

Picking up a pw'er and pulling the starter cord and aiming at the surface is easy. Spraying chemicals on is easy. Applying sealers is easy. But without the benefit of experience, developed technique, a trained eye and an understanding of what to look for or expect under a myriad of circumstances is going to result is novice results.

This and many other sites should come with a "Do not attempt this at home" statement.

I acknowledge that there is a bounty of information here and else where but it is with great caution that I inform anyone reading that this information in the hands of an inexperienced person(s) can result in serious personal harm, injury or death in addition to property damage that may not be reversible.

Read with care, proceed with a qualified and experienced contractor.

It has been our experience that others whom of which have read how to do things but in the end have made the condition worse resulting in even more expenses to correct or replace the condition they themselves were trying to save money on by doing it themselves and ultimately it cost them much more.

Rod!~

[814jeffw 71]

I can change my own oil and brakes etc... but I get my mechanic to do it,...for a couple of reasons:

Less hassle on my part

He has to eat to, I'm happy people patronize my business, so I try to do the same for other business',...after all that's what makes the World go 'round. And I believe there are a lot of people with the same outlook, so I wouldn't let this bother you at all. She just sounded like a knothead!!

Jeff

[Mike Williamson 198]

Wow! 37 lines and my fingers are tired after all that. I hope nobody gets the wrong impression of me but I am wondering if this had happened to anyone else.

I agree with everyone else here...This lady suckered you into giving her a discount. If it were me, I'd have simply told her fine, if you want to do it yourself, have at it...my price is my price. The amount I needed to make the job profitable didn't change simply because she learned how to do it herself.

Many of my customers know how to do what I'm doing...it isn't rocket science. If they don't know, the information is readily available all over the net. The thing is, most don't WANT to do it themselves... It's the same reason they hire a lawn crew to do their yard even though they have the equipment and knowledge to do it themselves. It's why I get calls from people who started pressurewashing their house or driveway and gave up because they realized it is more work then it looks like, especially without the right equipment and EXPERIENCE.

There are always going to be DIY people out there. It isn't a trend. It's just a fact of life. I don't worry about those folks...heck, I'm one myself. I'd much rather save the money and do something myself. If it is something I don't like doing, or don't have the time, I hire someone.

Don't sweat it...If you lost a customer because she chose to do it herself, you never really had a customer to begin with...you had a one-time job.

[PressurePros 248]

good post, Mike

[Celeste 341]

Don't sweat it...If you lost a customer because she chose to do it herself, you never really had a customer to begin with...you had a one-time job.

Truer words have never been spoken.

[Deck Guy 14]

There are always going to be DIY people out there. It isn't a trend. It's just a fact of life. I don't worry about those folks...heck, I'm one myself. I'd much rather save the money and do something myself. If it is something I don't like doing, or don't have the time, I hire someone.

I'm like Mike!

Honestly, how many decks have you done for someone with a pressure washer??

Like Steven Rowlett said before, having a hammer doesn't make you a carpenter either. Many of these people don't realize that even with the knowledge, they won't get the results we get because they lack the experience to apply the chems and finishes properly. It's insulting that they think they can do as good a job as I can after 100+ decks. Hell, you should have told her to do it herself and asked if you could come by with a camera afterwards to take a few pics for your book. You know, to show other homeowners how a job can go wrong! Gouged wood, lap marks, streaks, drip on concrete (although I should keep my mouth shut on that one).

[racechaser 64]

You have licenses, insurance, equipment cost and chemical costs. Not to mention gas to do the job, advertisements, and all related costs like phone, truck, gas to get to jobs,time involved in giving estimates, and accounting costs and taxes.

You know what you're expenses are and she doesn't. You have traveled all over the country training and learning. That's not even counting all the hours surfing these BBS's to learn new tricks. I have a workshop with over $3000.00 worth of chems in it, as I'm sure you do to. You need not feel ashamed at your prices.

Remember PROFIT is not a dirty word.

Scott

[racechaser 64]

I do feel for you. I've had concerns with the same thing for a while now.

http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/club-house/10311-organizations-bulletin-boards.html

I stated those same concerns in post #11 and on.

You just got beat up on price, which would have been defensible had you ever realized ALL of this is public. Just register as ABC Pressure washing and wait for your password to come.

Imagine if you had looked at a job, and then came here for advice from others. The client sees your post and now you have ZERO credibility with them because you had to ask for help because you had never encountered that before.

I tried to have this conversation with Rick Petry in the above thread and I don't think he ever grasped what I was saying. I see you now do unfortunately.

Just try and imagine EVERY possible scenario you would ever encounter on a job. I bet if it happened again tomorrow you'd have a better answer for the client.

And just remember Jason and "the jerk" from Bob's. There was a person who had all the equipment but no experience and he laughed when Jason said he could clean it.

You never really said what the job was for, but you can justify yourself like I said before. My only advice would be be prepared next time. So you knocked a hundred bucks off, big deal. If she had a friend recomend someone else who was $100.00 cheaper and asked you to match it you would have I'm sure.

Go get them next time!!!

Scott

[Don EMS 14]

To make it easier for her, you should have offered to sell her your business. Then buy it back in 6 months for a 1/4 of the price.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Don,

:lol: I like that one!

Rod!~

[smokey51 14]

After she did the job herself, who would she call to straighten out her mess?

Would her homeowner's insurance pay for all the damage she did?

Does she have insurance to pay her when she got hurt and couldn't work? (sorry AFLAC)

What she going to do with all the "tools of the trade" when she is finished? She can't rent everything.

Can she pay if she breaks some kind of local environmental law?

etc.

Terry

[One Tough Pressure 580]

I would have left.

[Integrity Curb Appeal 64]

Ditto the other guys.

If she wants to do this herself, more power to her. I would have kept my price. If you had an agreement, then she was unethical. Next time, don't let them off like that. Tell her you are fine cancelling the call, and give her a bill for your minimum service charge for making a contracted trip.