How Can THIS Be Good For Business ??

[Apple Roof Cleaning 202]

Today, we did a search for roof cleaning Brandon Florida, just like a potential customer would probably do.

roof cleaning brandon florida - Google Search

Try it yourself, click the link ?

Of course, our web pages came up in the search, but scroll down about 4 to 5 spots ?

THEN LOOK ??

There is a thread from The Grime Scene that I started called "Roof Cleaners in Florida - Is it slow for you right now"

Any potential customer can click on this thread, and read it.

To make matters worse, someone asks me in this thread if he can go down to a swimming pool supply place and buy pool chlorine to use to clean a roof.

And, he asks if Pool Chlorine is the same as the recommended Sodium Hypochlorite.

Pretty soon, why is anyone going to need us anymore when we are teaching potential customers how to do it themselves ?

I wonder why this, and other forums can't be closed to the search engines, so we can continue to educate each other, without educating potential customers as well ?

Imagine Kentucky Fried Chicken getting on an Internet cooking forum, and spelling out exactly what the secret herbs and spices are, where to get them, and how to prepare the chicken too ?

Or, Microsoft putting the source code for Windows out in the public domain ?

[Apple Roof Cleaning 202]

The thing I don't like about the internet is when my customers educate themselves about painting and then won't leave me alone about stuff - oh, you can't paint in direct sun, you can't paint above 90 degrees, below 50 degrees, you can't stain damp wood - and on and on and on. Sometimes it makes me wonder who the painter is and who is the worker

When we quote prices Dan, and suspect "trouble" from a customer, here is what I do.

I tell them it is either gonna be 400, 500, or 600 dollars to clean their roof.

400 to clean the roof, 500 if they watch, or 600 if they watch, and tell me what to do.

Putting the respirator on gets rid of em, usually.

Not that I don't like customers either.

I got enough to worry about w/o a customer being down below in the line of fire.

[racechaser 64]

Chris

I've been preaching on my soapbox for a few months now. This is the typical problem of nobody pays attention to the preaching until it impacts their business. Then BAMM all of the sudden they are preaching also.

I think there should be closed forums where only contractors can post and read. There could be others that can be read by everyone so that contractors can still find it.

I have truly come to appreciate that "silly" signature rule. Bob has no such rule and you could be educating your biggest competitor about your marketing techniques.

I have not made a reply to anyone on this or other boards if they don't have a sig line lately.

I'm a big proponent for some closed areas in this forum. I don't see the harm in it. I was thrilled when the "site supporter only" section came, only to go several hours later after complaints from what I assume were "non site supporters".

I have no misconceptions about this being Beth and Rod's board. I wish them luck and continued success. But as for me, I'm leary to share anymore. I'm not worried about people near me. I will reach out and help anyone as long as they have ethical business practices. But educating lowballers and home owners. I'm out!!

Until there is a secure place to talk, I'm in pause mode.

Scott

[PRESSURE PACKED 14]

I Really Do Not Understand..we Were All Diy...until We Took That "leap"if Somebody Is Looking For A Contractor.i Find It Hard To Believe They Will Read A Little Bit Then Go Into Biz/

If You Are Choosing Not To Be Totally Upfront, Thats Ur Chioce But Diy Is Not A Threat, Or We Would All Be Considered A Threat And This Forum Would Not Exist...everyone On This Board (with The Exception Of Referrals) Found The Site Through A "search"

Understanding That All You Need Is The B Word And A 12 V. Is Not "the Biz" And Anyone Who Thinks It Is...is Not My Competition Anyway Because There Is Much More Involved..tsp Borax And Soap J/k Lol

[Apple Roof Cleaning 202]

Chris

I've been preaching on my soapbox for a few months now. This is the typical problem of nobody pays attention to the preaching until it impacts their business. Then BAMM all of the sudden they are preaching also.

I think there should be closed forums where only contractors can post and read. There could be others that can be read by everyone so that contractors can still find it.

I have truly come to appreciate that "silly" signature rule. Bob has no such rule and you could be educating your biggest competitor about your marketing techniques.

I have not made a reply to anyone on this or other boards if they don't have a Sig line lately.

I'm a big proponent for some closed areas in this forum. I don't see the harm in it. I was thrilled when the "site supporter only" section came, only to go several hours later after complaints from what I assume were "non site supporters".

I have no misconceptions about this being Beth and Rod's board. I wish them luck and continued success. But as for me, I'm Leary to share anymore. I'm not worried about people near me. I will reach out and help anyone as long as they have ethical business practices. But educating lowballers and home owners. I'm out!!

Until there is a secure place to talk, I'm in pause mode.

Scott

Beth and Rod are good people, and mean well.

And, just like any other business owners, will change and adapt to marketing conditions.

My PERSONAL feeling is this, and I speak ONLY for myself.

I honestly believe that a closed forum for contractors only will ultimately be much more successful then one open to search engines.

People will seek a closed forum out, and once they find it, will not feel compromised to share like you feel here.

Alcoholics Anonymous does NOT advertise, people seek them out.

People make a living doing what we do, and I am sure by word of mouth, advertising in trade publications, etc, etc, etc, a closed forum, free of search engine "intervention", etc, etc, will make it.

All it takes to "close" a forum is a command in the search engine script to TELL the search engines to stay the heck out.

As a matter of fact, many forum scripts are set by DEFAULT this way.

Some actually make you pay extra for being open to search engines, or you have to enable it in the forum software.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Some of our forums are closed and off limits. To see which ones, simply log out and you will see they are marked as private.

Beth

[racechaser 64]

Some of our forums are closed and off limits. To see which ones, simply log out and you will see they are marked as private.

Beth

OK I just did and now am really more than a "little" hacked off. I am going to PM you about it instead of airing it all out here out of respect for ya'll. Watch your inbox.

Scott

[Don Phelps 85]

The obvious question would be why the "Wood Siding and Log Home Care" forum is "private" but the others aren't in that particular area? hmmmm

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

The obvious question would be why the "Wood Siding and Log Home Care" forum is "private" but the others aren't in that particular area? hmmmm

What's your point Don? Yeah we do log homes, but we also do decks, houses, etc....stuff that falls under all those wonderful OPEN areas.

Beth

[Don Phelps 85]

What's your point Don? Yeah we do log homes, but we also do decks, houses, etc....stuff that falls under all those wonderful OPEN areas.

Beth

My point was made in my post. Stop being so paranoid, it's not all about you.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Scott you talkin about preaching to the choir for some time yet you just now realize some sections are open and some not?

The funny thing about all the debate about diy is the amount of ownership some like to place on old/already existing ideas. This board is but a reflection of others that have had info shared for years and years already. The old delco board is an example. It is full of trades info...Besides that there surely are trade magazines, books, old timers, schools, people coming out of industry that constantly share and teach methods of completing tasks or what chemicals that could be used. There are also tv channels and websites based around diy. Honestly I am sure I'v forgotten more info flashed before my face by old timers or my own father (painter) then seen here. I am a bit disappointed in the talk of suppression and l liken it to repression. With that said I am also all for privacy found in the pm system, the member only sections, or the site supporter only sections. None of the three should be crawlable by the search engines or submitted to the index there of.

To be clear I got no anomosity and never had misunderstanding of what would or could likely end up being searched out.

BTW, The setting up of the websites indexing (a list of all pages used by the search engines) properly here on this forum has always been on my mind and tried to discuss it last year to not much fan fare.

One error I see some site have is that of allowing people into a private thread by way of getting there from the search engines. When they are done viewing thread they then must become member to view any other threads.(not saying that is happening here). Whats worse though with internet searching is searching something out and getting a supposed valid link to only find you can't go there. (teasing). This example would be what we got here if our private pages are ever submitted to search engines......NOW with that said I ask Beth and Rod the question again...Are the member only or site supporter sections (private?) kept out of the search engine indexes??..just a thought I would like confirmed is all. :)

[vlad 14]

About helping business, article from local paper.

lDEAR TIM: Roof cleaning needs to be done at my home. I have a newer asphalt shingle roof, but parts of it are getting covered with moss, lichens and algae. It is really distressing as it makes my house look like it is being neglected. Is a pressure washer a great tool for cleaning roof shingles? Will it remove all of this growth? A neighbor told me a pressure washer would ruin my shingles. Are there other cleaning alternatives? Once the roof is clean, how do I prevent the stuff from coming back?

—Tom B., Whittier, N.C.

DEAR TOM: Welcome to the world of organic chemistry. I'll bet the north-, northwest- and possibly west-facing sections of your roof are the ones that look bad, while the remaining parts of the roof look like new. What's more, my guess is that the parts of your roof that are the worst get shade from some large trees. I know this, because I have exactly the same problem as you do. Parts of my roof look like the Amazon rainforest.

Spores are broadcast by the wind, dropped from trees and delivered by birds to a roof surface. The abundant water you get from periodic rainfall fuels the growth of the moss, ichens and algae. Since the north, northwest and west sections of your roof stay in the shade during the early part of each day, the dew that develops on the roof at night does not evaporate quickly. This morning moisture quenches the thirst of the mini-vegetable garden up on your roof. The other sections of your roof dry too quickly and the moss, lichens and algae die of thirst.

Like you, I have also heard urban legends about pressure washers causing permanent damage to asphalt roof shingles. I know for a fact that pressure washers can damage concrete, so it would seem plausible that they would harm shingles. But I wanted to try it just to be sure.

Since I know how to replace one or more roof shingles quickly and easily, I decided to test my own roof. I figured it would be an especially good test subject since it is now 20 years old and at the end of its useful life. I also decided to test some new shingles to see if the pressure washer blasted away many or all of the colored granules.

The shingle-cleaning test started with a gasoline-powered pressure washer that develops 2,500 pounds per square inch of pressure while delivering 2.4 gallons of water per minute. I equipped the pressure washer spray wand with a 25-degree tip. This tip is used for general-purpose cleaning.

The results of the test were astonishing. I was able to remove all of the moss, lichens, algae and 20 years of dirt with the pressure washer. No damage whatsoever was done to the asphalt shingles.

I started with the spray wand tip about twelve inches from the surface of the shingles and aimed the wand down the roof. I didn't get any noticeable cleaning results at this distance. But once I slowly lowered the wand to within 6 inches of the shingles, the organic growth started to disappear. I recommend that you carefully clean just one shingle, and then stop working and inspect the shingle for damage.

Walk to another part of your roof where the shingles look great to see if the clean shingle looks just like the freshly cleaned shingle. Rest assured you will readily spot damage. If you see small or large patches of solid black or fiberglass mesh, you are ruining your roof.

You can use a regular garden hose and a scrub brush to clean your roof. It will be an enormous amount of work, to say the least. Always point the garden hose or pressure washer wand down the roof. Never point it up the roof, as water can be driven up under the shingles, creating massive leaks inside your home.

Once the roof is cleaned, you can keep it looking like new by installing strips of copper at the top of the roof. You need about two to three inches of copper exposed along the ridgeline. If your roofer had installed shingles that contained invisible copper-coated granules, you would not have to do any of this work. The slow release of copper on the roof surface prevents the growth of moss, lichens and algae.

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[racechaser 64]

Scott you talkin about preaching to the choir for some time yet you just now realize some sections are open and some not?

Well knew some were closed. I thought itwas the club house , job leads, marketing ideas (thank goodness)and a couple of others.

I thought all the "trade" forums were open. That was what I wasn't happy about mostly. I never realized, as Don pointed out, that anyone in the log home industry was protected. I was upset because I can't understand why they are special. (I have spoken to Beth and don't believe it is anything to do with their business of being involved in log homes)

That was the shocker( log homes being private). This is not an issue that I will sit and stew over. I always knew anything I wrote was going to be seen. The issue is not about keeping fellow contractors out. It is about the potential clients that read these posts, like happened to Chris a few weeks back.

Scott

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Scott you talkin about preaching to the choir for some time yet you just now realize some sections are open and some not?

The funny thing about all the debate about diy is the amount of ownership some like to place on old/already existing ideas. This board is but a reflection of others that have had info shared for years and years already. The old delco board is an example. It is full of trades info...Besides that there surely are trade magazines, books, old timers, schools, people coming out of industry that constantly share and teach methods of completing tasks or what chemicals that could be used. There are also tv channels and websites based around diy. Honestly I am sure I'v forgotten more info flashed before my face by old timers or my own father (painter) then seen here. I am a bit disappointed in the talk of suppression and l liken it to repression. With that said I am also all for privacy found in the pm system, the member only sections, or the site supporter only sections. None of the three should be crawlable by the search engines or submitted to the index there of.

To be clear I got no anomosity and never had misunderstanding of what would or could likely end up being searched out.

BTW, The setting up of the websites indexing (a list of all pages used by the search engines) properly here on this forum has always been on my mind and tried to discuss it last year to not much fan fare.

One error I see some site have is that of allowing people into a private thread by way of getting there from the search engines. When they are done viewing thread they then must become member to view any other threads.(not saying that is happening here). Whats worse though with internet searching is searching something out and getting a supposed valid link to only find you can't go there. (teasing). This example would be what we got here if our private pages are ever submitted to search engines......NOW with that said I ask Beth and Rod the question again...Are the member only or site supporter sections (private?) kept out of the search engine indexes??..just a thought I would like confirmed is all. :)

The private sections are not indexed by the engines. If old data before they were privatized has been, when the link is clicked by a non-member they will get an error. Only the open areas are indexed. There are other things a non-member can't see either. I think ( would have to log out and check) the gallery and the water cooler are private as well. I know the images can't be viewed neither can attached documents.

Beth

[itswillist 14]

chem tank, chemical, pump, hose, ladder, Gun, free time ......... DIYer, may find it's cheaper to hire it out ... it's the competition I'd worry about ...

[Russ Johnson 141]

"The results of the test were astonishing. I was able to remove all of the moss, lichens, algae and 20 years of dirt with the pressure washer. No damage whatsoever was done to the asphalt shingles"

See, you guys have been doing it wrong all along...lol

[Apple Roof Cleaning 202]

"The results of the test were astonishing. I was able to remove all of the moss, lichens, algae and 20 years of dirt with the pressure washer. No damage whatsoever was done to the asphalt shingles"

See, you guys have been doing it wrong all along...lol

I WONDERED what all those people here in Florida were doing with pressure washers in their trailers.

I just learned something Russ, I have been cleaning roofs the wrong way for 14 years.

I need to pressure wash them, and remove 20 years of dirt, and get the lichens too.

Then, I will bag the gutter downspouts, and re sell all the removed granules back to the roofing companies.

Someone told me I need to "recover" ?

NOW I know what they mean, LOL

[Russ Johnson 141]

For speed, I'd use a Turbo...

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Beth, thanx! that exactly the info I was after and it sounds satisfactory to me..:)

Vlad, That DIY advice is typical and scary. One second they mention no damage and the next warn that the cleaned sections damage would be readily spotted as if yes indeed you should check just in case. It's like they don't know what they talking about or what could be commited to for advice. The part about brushing the roof is plain bad advice...no agitation should be used on a asphalt roof beyond low pressure water flow. Why risk protective particle loss I would ask the adviser. If I not mistaken some or most of the copper methods don't work satisfactory neither...Anyways, I guess we're all loose canon...

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Hey Chris, I guess we now have the answer on "how can this be good for business?" lol

[Apple Roof Cleaning 202]

For speed, I'd use a Turbo...

I was looking at a Gas Powered surface cleaner Russ.

That way, if the weight of it makes it fall through the roof, you can simply tell the customer "your roof was bad", and charge him for a "roof inspection"

I am not a pressure washer Russ, but my friends clean concrete with those gas powered surface cleaners.

They say they make quick work of concrete ?

Thus, they should ruin a roof equally fast, no ?

[RPetry 564]

To all,

Wake up. The world of business has changed. As well as the world of information and egalitarian secrets. Face it, if someone wants to clean their roof or stain their deck, they will downright, no doubt about it, find some good info somewhere on the internet.

Thank god for that. We as contractors have all gained great ideas, whether marketing, selling, or performing our trade through this medium. Who cares if someone has the time and interest to read through this or any other board? They are not your first time customers.

They may very well be your next customer. If they are a lawyer, engineer, medical worker, plumber, whatever, you think they have the time and interest in doing it again?

If they do, they will never be a customer. Otherwise, they have found a local contractor that has some kudos and experience to do a quality job at a fair and honest price.

[Apple Roof Cleaning 202]

Respectfully disagree.

My brother is an A/C contractor.

They have protection from keeping consumers from going down and buying an A/C unit, and slapping it in.

We do not.

Unfortunately, the roof cleaning business basically consists of ONE secret, Sodium Hypochlorite.

Once someone knows what to use, and where to get it, we are finished.

10 - 2.5 gallon jugs of it and a simple pump up sprayer mixed with water, and any roof can be cleaned up to 2000 sq ft by spraying it on.

Us roof cleaners are MUCH more vulnerable then pressure washers, wood and deck people, and Greasers.

NO special equipment is needed beyond that.

See WHY we are concerned ?

I posted this to make a point.

BET I will edit it before the search engines get hold of it!

[RPetry 564]

Mr. Apple,

No, I still do not see your point. In Florida, or anywhere else, how many people are going to climb a ladder, spray bleach on the roof, and pressure wash off?

No doubt there are some. But they would not be first time customers in any stretch. Let 'em do it, let 'em know a few tips, and let 'em suffer.

Next time they call you or your professional competitor. Again, we do no roofs, only wood, but it cannot be that different.

[BigPete 14]

I do not know about your house, But when we built ours, it came with, among other things, a manual (printed in 1998) explaining the construction features and basic maintenance of our new home. Inside was a pretty good explanation of how to clean and maintain both tile and shingle roof systems. both recommended using sodium hypochlorite and water and low pressure rinse. I know they didn't just print this for me. Everybody that builds a new house or gets a new roof probably gets something like this, they might not read it, but they probably get it somewhere in the literature they receive.

When I buy pool chlorine, there are detailed instructions for shingle roof cleaning printed right on the label. They are written there for the average homeowner. This is the same liquid any consumer can buy even in the grocery store at 10% concentration.

I hope you don't think any of this information came from your posts leaking out to the internet revealing your secrets.

There are plenty of trade secrets, but few, if any, have to do with how we clean or what we use to clean with.

DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE!!!

GOOD NIGHT NOW!

[Mike Williamson 198]

I Really Do Not Understand..we Were All Diy...until We Took That "leap"if Somebody Is Looking For A Contractor.i Find It Hard To Believe They Will Read A Little Bit Then Go Into Biz/

If You Are Choosing Not To Be Totally Upfront, Thats Ur Chioce But Diy Is Not A Threat, Or We Would All Be Considered A Threat And This Forum Would Not Exist...everyone On This Board (with The Exception Of Referrals) Found The Site Through A "search"

Understanding That All You Need Is The B Word And A 12 V. Is Not "the Biz" And Anyone Who Thinks It Is...is Not My Competition Anyway Because There Is Much More Involved..tsp Borax And Soap J/k Lol

Yep! I'm a DIY'er...If I want to do something and not pay a contractor, I'll figure out how to do it myself...whether there's a forum or not. I only hire people to do things I either don't want to do, or things I feel I can't do safely myself. For example, I paid a company $1300.00 to take down a couple large, dying water oaks near the house...I wouldn't have tried to do that myself. However, I would never hire a plumber to come fix my plumbing, or an electrician to come re-wire my house. That stuff I know how to do and am not going to pay someone else a pile of money to do it. It doesn't matter if you share your secrets or not, I'm still not hiring you.

People like me typically won't hire you period. It's the customers who aren't DIY'ers who you are looking for, and there are plenty of them out there...people who make good money, and who don't have the time, aptitude, or desire to do it themselves.