Let's talk truck's

[Scott Stone 604]

I want a discussion on trucks. I don't necessarily want to discuss the particular merits on one brand over another, because we all know tha Ford's were best, until last weekend.

I want to know what you use as guidelines in purchasing a truck.

1. New, lightly used, or very used?

2. Why do you buy trucks that way?

3. How much do you think that it costs you to run the truck for expenses such as repairs and maintenance, and cost of the truck?

4. When you buy, do you prefer 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, 1 ton, or a medium duty truck?

5. Gas or Diesel? Why?

6. When you buy a truck, is it all bells and whistles, or a stripper? Maybe bells and whistles for you, and a stripper for the crew?

So what do you think?

My philosophy.

I bought my truck used, with 10,000 miles on it, because it was a good deal, and Scott is about making money. :) I recently bought a truck new for an employee, it is a stripper, but is also a Super Duty. Previously, I bought an optioned truck, but found employees don't appreciate it, and just abuse the truck. SO I saved some money this time.

When I buy a truck, especially if it is dedicated to towing a trailer, or is anticipated to towing a pressure washing trailer, I want a 3/4 ton. Sometimes, it is a dual use truck, and it still ends up being a 3/4 ton.

My truck is Diesel. I drive enough miles in it that I can justify the expense. I actualy do a spread sheet with anticipated costs before I make the final decision.

My employee truck does not see nearly as many miles, so I bought a gas motor. More than enough guts to get it and a trailer moving. He also only drives it about 400 miles a week. So no justification for a diesel motor.

My other employee truck also sees about 300 miles a week, but it never tows a pressure washing trailer, so I bought a Toyota for a specific service. It is excellent for what it does, although everyone prefers driving the larger trucks.

Since I know what kind of abuse some of my trucks go through, beyond driving from point to point, I buy an extended warranty from the manufacturer, to cover any potential problems.

So enough of my ramblings. What do you do about trucks?

Scott Stone

[Rick G 14]

Well it’s just me and sometimes a part timer. I bought a 02 Ram regular cab V8- 8 ft bed that was a demo. I never buy new, never. I think it’s a bad investment in this day of lease returns. Mine has a V8 and a tow pack. No power windows or locks but it is an automatic. It has soft plastic like seats and no carpet. Very easy to clean. Its all black inside so it still looks nice. I wanted a ford F250 but price was my 1st priority and no one could come close to Dodge. I understand why now. I have had a few problems with the truck already and two recalls. I have also found out they are VERY easy to steal. Mine was stolen before X-mass. It does toss my trailer around with ease though and has lots of room. If I could have whatever I wanted it would be a F250 Crew cab 8ft-bed diesel. Just some thoughts. Rick G

[RyanH 14]

Bought a '03 Dodge Ram because Dodge was desperate to get rid of their '03 Durangos. I made a deal to buy both at the same time, so they gave us her car for something like $8000 under sticker price and mine for invoice. They were hurting when we walked out of there. I like the ram OK, but it is horrendous on the fuel. My wife likes it because of that overly-hyped Hemi. As for other reasons on purchasing it, I guess opportunity was my reason. It had a 4x4 and towing package and the quad-cab feature, all of which were necessities to me. Price was not too bad (around $27500, fully loaded, leather and tint added, and all taxes and title fees included). It was slightly used (had something like 9k on it), so I let someone else eat the depreciation on it. I usually buy used vehicles for the same reason as Rick gives.....bad investment.

On the non-performance side, I have to say that the truck looks quite nice and I have had MANY positive comments on it from customers. I just keep it clean and for some reason the looks of that alone inspire confidence. Wait until I get my new PW setup!!! Business should start selling itself then.

Ryan H.

[Cleveland Mobile 14]

Bought my dodge new in 97...one ton with a 12 foot box..dual wheels but 2 wheel drive. Gas engine 360 gets about 13 to a gallon. Always bought used before and really havent noticed a difference in upkeep.....new one gets problems just like the old ones.

I looked into the Isuzu's but one of my customers Ryder, pointed out how expensive they were to fix.......

I think the demo's are the best to buy....low mileage good as a new one. I've had chevy's fords and dodges.....feel they are all the same. Best deal is always the best way in my book. As far as bells and whistles....ac is all I look for.

Andy

[Jon 533]

Scott explain your remarkbecause we all know tha Ford's were best, until last weekend.

That asked I I always buy new, sure I lose about 3 grand driving it off the dealers lot but I get no other person headaches.

I buy diesel because retail value, longer life, less maintance, there is no savings on cost of fuel like years gone by.

I also buy 3/4 ton and optioned if by that Scott means power windows, seats and other extra's but no leather seats.

Truck serves two purposes, personal vehicle and work vehicle.

Before this 2002 F250 I owned a Dodge 250 diesel, much better milage compared to Ford but brakes sucked, first 1000 miles warranty replaced all 4 completly, again around 5000, and a couple more times, they refused to admit they had problems yet they keep replacing total braking package.

Now if only you could take the older Dodge mechanical diesel and put it in the new Ford you would have a perfect package.

The new ford diesel and tranny are not proven, have heard of may problems with them.

Average milage:

2002 Ford towing or not 13.5 mpg.

1997 Dodge towing 17 to 19 mpg.

Not towing 22 mpg.

[One Tough Pressure 580]

I chose Ford due to their reputation of quality trucks, and the great looks of a superduty. I use it for personel and work use, so I have many options that are not needed for a work only, or employee vehicle.

Mine is a F-250, I chose the V-10 gas over diesel, because I dislike the noise that they make. I also do not drive enough to make disel worth my while.

In order for my truck and trailer to be parked in the driveway, while hoooked up, I chose the super cab short bed. I also bought slightly used with just over 10,000 miles on it, and it was a pretty good deal.

[Scott Stone 604]

Jon,

My wfes excursion ate her transmission this past weekend. It seems it was a 9 month long experiment, and I lost out. It was out of the Ford warranty, so I got the privilege to pay for the rebuild with the Ford update. I was really disappointed with how Ford treated us this past weekend, especially since I own 3 super duties. I will have to look harder at the other brands next time I buy a pick up, though I know that they all have their problems.

As for the new VS used argument, just to be Devils advocate, if you are buying a slightly used vehicle in my area from a dealer, they are quite often more expensive than a new truck. I can't justify that expense.

So, when you buy used, do you set aside extra money to take care of some of the problems that might come up, that you did not know about, or do you get them so that they are still under warranty? If you can, do you buy an extended warranty, or do you shoot the dice like the manufacturer does that the vehicle will last outside the warranty period?

Andy,

Since you looked at the Isuzu, did you look at the warranty, too, when you decided on the Dodge?

Scott

[One Tough Pressure 580]

I had time left on my factory warranty, but chose not to get the extended one. I will see how it goes. I have not had any major problems, so I hope it stays that way.

[One Call Power Wash 500]

I would never buy a Ford. Owned a 1996 and its was junk from day 1. We buy only Dodge now. Had some rear problems with the 2001 Dodge Ram 1500 but other than that, no problems. They are hard on gas. We have a 2003 Dodge 2500 and get between 12-13 mpg. What happened to those days when trucks got 17 ? I dont have a clue.

[Jon 533]

Scott if I were to ever buy a USED vehicle it would have to have low milage as yours did and full factory warranty with extended offered at the NEW price. By the way most extended warranties now cost a few thousand vs several hundred when I got mine.

Another thing I would make sure of is all recalls and updates are done before I drove the vehicle off the dealers lot, that way you hopefully have little worry later.

Sorry to hear about your wife's tranny, ops I mean her Ford Excursions tranny, I did not think she was that hard a driver!

One Call,

Are they gas or diesel? either way you need to have the dealer run a milage test on them, you should be getting much better milage then that. Unless you jack rabbit start every time.

I notice no one has Chevy diesels but then again they are not proven enough as a work truck the way most of us use them.

One thing about being treated nice or bad, Dodge and Ford are equal, customer service stinks.

I have been at it with Ford from day one with this truck, it is a SHORT bed and off the production line some idiot coded it LONG BED so the VIN is coded LONG BED. Pictures have been taken, District Manager has said Ford will correct the problem and it will take about 3 month, hmm, That was 2 years ago, I have talked with him a few times and reminded him about what he said.

So I can relate to your rude treatment, Ford is sloooooooowwwwwwwwww.

[Scott Stone 604]

That is the amazing thing about it. It has never towed a trailer, and she drives it like a middle aged mom with little kids. This truck is pampered. Now my truck on the other hand tows a trailer a minimum of 400 miles a week, and if it is not full of water I am doing something wrong. I have an account that I have to literally stop and start at least four times every mile, and put it in park every time, and my transmission is solid. Never a problem in 112,000 miles. Of course, I probably just jinxed myself.

One call,

It is interesting that you say Fords are junk, and that you will buy strictly Dodge. I have heard even more people say Dodges are junk, and they will only buy Fords. What I want to know is what the compelling reason to only buy Dodges is for you?

As for the Gas mileage, that does not seem that far out of line to me for a full size truck, unless you are talking a diesel pick up. Then it seems a bit on the low side for a Cummins.

Scott

[Dave Olson 23]

Hello Scott,

Specifications were the force behind my selection of a replacement chassis. Needed to stay under 26,000 GVWR so my technicians aren’t required to have a CDL. A heavy front axle so we can carry our water tanks in the front of our van bodies. And be able to maintain interstate speeds when fully loaded.

I first looked at International Harvester. They would not build me a chassis with an 11,000-pound front axle and keep the GVWR under 26,000! I kept checking around the other nametags and finally found a salesman that understood what I was looking for, he was a Kenworth, Freightliner, GMC salesman. I even had other GMC sales people say, “You can’t do that!” These chassis have 19,000 pound rear axles with 23,000 suspensions. 80,000 pound rated and reinforced frame rails. Both trucks carry 1000-gallon water tanks. The Red carries about 12,000 pounds in the 1st 4 feet of the box and the White carries a little over 8,000 pounds in the front of the box.

The gas engines 427 in the Red and 454 in the White both do a fine job for us. These are just basic trucks, but do have air conditioning and AM/FM. Bought the Red in the fall of ’97 and the White in the winter of ’99. Cost about $30,000 each including the Governor without van bodies.

Dave Olson

[Scott Stone 604]

David,

Why did you choose medium duty over a smaller load of water, or les equipment. Is it because it was what you had, or because you could not carry enough water in a one ton for some of the work you did?

I am always impressed by your trucks. I am thinking that it is about time for a new one for you. ;)

Scott

[beyoungsr 14]

I use a 2000 Ford Lariat PSD F-250 crew cab 4x4 . Purchased new with all the bells and whisltes.

It has plenty of room and mileage is 17.0-18.3 on the highway. City dirving is in the 13.0 mpg range. Towing around 11.0-13.0 depending on conditions.

I have to keep the truck for 100,000 miles to break even for the engine up charge and service. I plan on using this truck 7-10 years.

[Scott Stone 604]

It sounds like your truck is the same model as mine. I've got a few upgrades, but it is basically a lariat 4x4 Crew cab diesel. So how did you reach the decision to buy that truck?

Scott

[Jon 533]

ROFLMAO,

Really now a Chevy, ah that's right, down on the farm those horses were watching one with all 4 wheels turning that horse trailer around.

Funny thing is there were no horses inside the trailer!

I hear the Chevy diesel is not a worthy engine for long term power work as Ford and Dodge.

Ever seen a Chevy pulling a 5th wheel or travel trailer down the highway?

[Richard Hawes 14]

I bought new. The zero % financing cant be beat. I had a 2000 ford 3/4 ton Lariat 4x4 with diesel, the 7.3 . I loved this truck, but the noise did get to me at times.

I bought a new ford 1/2 ton ext.cab 4x4 lariat. 5.4 gas burner. I like this truck very well also. I also had 97 z71. the chevy would outrun my new ford, but the ford beats it on braking. Hauling water this is very important.

I have decided my next truck will go back to the ford 3/4 ton super cab 4x4 lariat. if the super duty body style doesnt change between now and then. probably buy again in 2006 or 7.

[Dave Olson 23]

Hello Scott,

We need the 1000 gallons on many of our jobs, but of course not all. We have to equip ourselves for the worst-case scenario! This means water as well as power. We do not use well water so we must bring our own.

Our customers understand because they have problems with their own equipment because of their water!

As far as needing a new truck, we only have about 85,000 miles on our Red. It’s good for many years yet.

As far as what I drive, I’ve had Suburban’s for the last 15 years or so. This is a picture of my current one. It is a ’95. I bought it used, $11,500 four years ago. By some it would be considered pretty plain, but it fits my needs real well. I can haul supplies or people, or some of both. It currently has 205,000 miles on it and still going good! Knock on wood!

Took this picture of it today. Yeah, it is dirty. That’s ice under it parked next to our shop! We hope to be able to clean some fleets tomorrow. It’s been 6 weeks since we have been able to go out and do fleets!

Dave Olson

[Ron Musgraves 240]

I buy old trucks, good used ones... I have put seven motors in one of them and practically replaced seats axels and mirrors over the last 20 years. my oldest is a 89 f350 gas guzzeller... My chevys do get better gas milelage. my fords really are tougher.

i have three diesels and i love them... i wish i could find a few more at auction. one ran almost 650,000 with out major repair.

i have a 97 250 that has 265,000 and i'm waiting fro the motor to go. it will get a new 5.4 leader motor. i just put new trany and other items.

My sales people get new trucks every 2 to three years, yes they abuse them but i trade them before they have too many miles. My fleet of service truck i dont think will ever be new unless my patience come to and end. kicking tires is not that fun, but its a nessasary evil.

[Ron Musgraves 240]

Scotty, great ???????

[Jon 533]

Hey Dave you can keep that Suburban, just mail the keys to the TOY to me and I will fly out and drive it back here!

Oh almost forgot to ask you to sign the title off to me please.

Jon

[One Tough Pressure 580]

Originally posted by Scott Stone

That is the amazing thing about it. It has never towed a trailer, and she drives it like a middle aged mom with little kids. This truck is pampered.

Scott

Scott,

That is the problem, being pampered.

[Scott Stone 604]

So Ron, since you buy used trucks, how much more cost effective are they? I know that you have to spend a lot on maintenance, so what is the monthly maintenance and repair costs per truck? Have you found one brand of truck to be more cost effective than another?

Jon,

Something tells me that you are either dreaming, or smoking the wacky tabaccy to relive your surfer days. Don't look for any keys soon...

Scott

[beyoungsr 14]

Scott,

We decided on the truck because my wife has M.S..

We expected to install a boom type lift in the rear for her wheel chair.

We latter found out about the platform lifts that are available. If I would have known about them at the time I would have purchased the PSD Excursion. My wife is currently in remission so the wheel chair has not been needed. Thank god.

The towwing capacity and the engine longevity were the biggest factors other than the wheel chair needs.

Also at the time of purchase only Ford had a crew cad in a 3/4 ton truck. We wanted the extra room.

It was not price. When I made the purchase these trucks were scarce and in high demand. Dealers did not discount them like today. The flip down video and all the other accessories made swallowing the high price a little easier. The only thing I added was a bed liner.

The truck has really given us good service since purchase.

It has only been to the shop twice. Once for the computer module and the other for a failed cam postioning sensor.

I am now eligible for Ford X- plan pricing through my full time employer. This will usually get you around $6000. off the sticker price on a new PSD.

Would I purchase another PSD? In a heart beat!

[Scott Stone 604]

The M.S. is a bummer. My heart goes out to her.

The PSD Excursion is a really nice cruising machine. Especially if you did not get one of the defective transmissions. :o My wife loves hers, as do the kids. Much more comfortable than some of the newer Suburbans, for our family.

Now I have another question, If you could change something about your truck, what would it be?

Scott Stone

[Jon 533]

Scott in answer to your remark about smokin wacky tabbco and surfer days, well all I can say is THOSE WERE THE DAYS MY FRIEND!.

Just having fun with another guy with a few grey hairs! Besides Dave has to ask his wife for permission to drive it anyway, it is her toy and a nice one too!

You guys mention Ford diesel as noisy, I find that to be wrong, Dodge is yes and from the inside too, my Ford is very quiet inside and not because of my hearing or lack of it either, I can tell the difference.

Doubt me ask Remy she can too!