Here comes the technology

[plainpainter 217]

Here is the latest technology from Muralo - it is a waterbourne alkyd deck stain. Muralo has always been proactive company in the coatings industry - and for a small company they have really worked hard to put EPA compliant coatings out ahead of the actual laws. While in some ways this has been annoying, because they have let their oil products over the years really become cheesy. This is in part because instead of overburdening an already small R&R department, they simply took ingredients out of the can as mandated, did not reformulate - but instead were buying their time while the chemists were working on vast departures from old technology.

The rewards of this have been fantastic - their interior paints are the very best in the industry - I routinely use their waterbourne interior products, especially their Ultra semigloss - and eveyrone thinks my trim work is oil. They have waterbased primers that kill knots, waterbourne polyurethanes that look like glass and more durable than oil based poly's, the most amazing exterior paints in the industry - now they even have self priming high coverage latex paints. And now this product - I will be trying it and seeing how well it works, but as the can says - it has less than 250ml/L - it is basically butyl/water/alkyd. And I believe the 'stainshield' technology is nano-technology. Here are some pics.

[Richard 17]

I'm curious to here what other people have to say.

I responded because I thought that they would have caught the spelling mistake

[bigchaz 157]

I dont want my deck to look like an oil, I want it to actually be an oil. And I think paint companies should stick to making paints and Ill buy my stain from a stain company.

Are you actually trying out all these new and great products? How do your customers feel about that? No history or proven results doesn't make the job as a deck staining salesman very easy

[Barry M 73]

Did they really misspell "waterborne" on the front of that can? OMG

Any who, I bet it will be fun to strip back off.

[PressurePros 248]

Did they really misspell "waterborne" on the front of that can? OMG

Any who, I bet it will be fun to strip back off.

:whoops:

I almost don't believe my eyes. To think of the levels of design, approval and printing that a label goes through and not have someone catch that blows my mind. Is this a new word in coatings of which we are not aware?

[Barry M 73]

At least they spelled it right on the back :lgjump:

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

:whoops:

I almost don't believe my eyes. To think of the levels of design, approval and printing that a label goes through and not have someone catch that blows my mind. Is this a new word in coatings of which we are not aware?

There are water BASED products and water BORNE products and they are not the same. They have been around a while.....

Beth :cup:

[PressurePros 248]

There are water BASED products and water BORNE products and they are not the same. They have been around a while.....

Beth :cup:

Did you look at the label? Under what category does Water ORNE fall under?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Ken,

I have read many labels. There has been lots of info on these newer technologies out there since 2005 when many of them were introduced.

Beth

ps DOH!!! I see what you mean...the B is gone....

[plainpainter 217]

Hey - don't mess with the Nortons. They're the ones that own that mansion in the movie 'The Godfather' - apparently the family is good friends with Francis Ford Coppola, and let them 'borrow' their home for the movie.

BTW - there is no such thing as 'painting' companies and 'stain' companies' these are coatings manufacturers - and this company has been around over a century - they know their business!

[bigchaz 157]

Enjoy the maintenance on that. Say hello the shinys for me

[plainpainter 217]

Why do you think the deck will be shiny Charlie?

[James 624]

Are you sure water based and water borne are different. They both mean water is the carrier of the solids instead of solvents?

[We Wash Concrete 64]

Is this the first kind of stain like this? Does anybody else offer an equal stain?

Not judging the product, but I find it humorous that the 'lumber jack' in the picture, the "protector of woods", is holding an axe. Many people don't associate a lumber jack with a "protector of woods". Or do they?

[bigchaz 157]

Unless you are stripping the deck during your maintenance service, my experiance with water products is that they don't take a refresh coat very well. Hence the shiny comment.

[PressurePros 248]

Is this the first kind of stain like this? Does anybody else offer an equal stain?

Not judging the product, but I find it humorous that the 'lumber jack' in the picture, the "protector of woods", is holding an axe. Many people don't associate a lumber jack with a "protector of woods". Or do they?

Behr is the leader in water borne/alkyd hybrids and they are usually a nightmare to strip. I'm with Chaz.. Have yet to meet a waterborne I didn't hate. Then again, this is Water Orne stain..

Good observation on the lumber jack. I don't equte them with preservation, no. On a side note.. Has anybody seen the new show on the History channel (on demand) called Axe Men? I like watching the reality shows made for guys to watch. I got hooked on Deadliest Catch. This show is the same premise only with 4 or 5 logging companies in the mountains of Oregon.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Are you sure water based and water borne are different. They both mean water is the carrier of the solids instead of solvents?

That's what I have heard...it does seem a little like splitting hairs.

Beth

[plainpainter 217]

A little history guys...in the beginning...when 'latex' formulations were first invented, they too were made with solvents - it actually took quite some time before chemists figured out how to suspend latex in a water base. But it has been like this so long - that most folks intuition link latex with water.

Again most oil/alkyd resins require a solvent from anything from turpentine to stoddard solvents {i.e. mineral spirits}. However if you go to chemical suppliers, for instance Rohm & Hass, they have a myriad of different alkyd resins for sale - and some of them have been engineered to accept water as it's solvent. I routinely use an alkyd trim paint that is waterbased - it is made by devoe. I suspect the cost of alkyd resins that have been modified to accept H2O as it's solvent, is quite a bit more exspensive than a more typical alkyd.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Why do you think the deck will be shiny Charlie?

That said...usual method of imparting protection by a water product is to instill some form of a synthetic resin/binder to the mix to both seal out moisture and trap in the pigments, biocides stuff. They don't have to have such but it is advantagous for product to last longer and pigments to not come out. The more resin there is the thicker it likely be hence making for possability of shinies in the solids sitting on top. Such products used like these they recommend only one coat which helps avoid the problem.

Charlie,

Perhaps this talk should not go without saying that just cause a product is a water product does not mean there is no oil in it. Oil can be, and is implied as being in them all the time with terms like 'penetrating oil formula'.They been making emulsions of oil and water for years....

Far as future maintenance goes...never can tell. If it a good penetrator with not too much solid there may not be much issues presented down the road to repair or recoat. Thing is, down the road may equal many many years which don't fit into many companies plan for reocurring customer base..

I would have to agree on the idea of focusing on there only being coating manufactures. Any good company perceived as only a paint or stain company has chemists that can make either and often times do make both. Difference between going from a stain to a paint is boosting the amount of pigment to go from transparent to opaque solid and then an increase to the resin/binder to lock it in. Generally speaking I believe many stain bases are made with the correct amount of binder to allow it to tie up from about 2-5% pigment and still keep it's penetration ability and it's per coat integrity. The 'per coat integrity' integrity is of course just a fancy way to descibe having enough binder to lock things in durably for use or further top coating.

[PressurePros 248]

Kevin ! Great post. You too, Dan.

You two truly understand far more than 99% of the stuff I have read on BBS's about coatings. What kills formulas for me is the acylics that are added into the coatings. (They are) not maintenance friendly. Dan, you are right about the resin formulas that end up in VOC compliant stains being expensive. One thing I have been schooled about is the intercoat adhesion capablility of a product..not only how well does the product bond with the wood but how does it bond with itself.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

That's what I have heard...it does seem a little like splitting hairs.

Beth

"The terms solvent-based or water-based are not, strictly speaking, accurate. The coating is not `based’ on water or solvent, but is either dissolved or suspended in it. The terms `water borne’ and `solvent borne’ are more accurate descriptions."

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

What about those product that use the water to dive in to the wood?

Beth

[bigchaz 157]

Ken i am soooo ready for axe men. How I got hooked on a bunch of boats Ill never know, but if axe men is anything like it Im already hooked and haven't even seen an episode.

As for the rest of this thread, ya'll are probably right. Im just so satisfied with woodtux I honestly dont care about any other products. Especially anything with the word water it in. Or acrylic. Rather cut my hand off than "stain" with those nightmares

[bigchaz 157]

Did I mention the ice road truckers show?

[plainpainter 217]

Beth, another little bit of history. The reason the term 'waterbornes' came into existance - was to distinguish certain lines of paint from just run of the ordinary 'latex' paints. Terms are numerous and confusing - originaly latex paints were made with latex resins, this hasn't been true for decades. And as well oil paints haven't been true oils for even longer. Manufacturers have introduced the term 'waterborne' as a way of classifying their new generation of paints that posess technology vastly different from traditionaly formulated 'latex' paints - but yet still have water as their 'solvent'. The urge is great to call a paint or any coating that contains water as a 'latex' - among painters even coatings with 100% acrylic binders are called 'latex'. And manufacturers are trying to get away from this.

[Adrian 155]

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