Teachers with Guns?

[Ron Musgraves 240]

Teachers with guns? Lawmaker proposes - Crime & courts - MSNBC.com

Are we nuts, teachers carrying hand guns to protect students.

I hate to say it but what teacher will shoot the first student?

Couldnt we just use security or police to protect students in these problems Schools? Have we lost our minds?

What do you guys think about this one?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Aren't metal detectors and security at the doors enough? If a teacher carried a gun at our kid's school, I would be all over it.

Beth

[Rick2 42]

Well Ron, that’s a tough call. School violence seems to be at an all time high these days. I don’t think many of us are surprised anymore when we hear of another shooting in the public schools. Normally it is gang related or boyfriend/girlfriend conflicts. It is very easy for a student to bring a weapon of choice into the building. Metal detectors are not always operational and sometimes the walk-through types are only there for show. If a student wants to bypass the detectors they will leave the weapon hidden outside of the school and retrieve it when they go outside for lunch. Random locker searches are sometimes effective but they still are random.

Aside from my 15 (16?) years as a power washer I am also a math and science middle school teacher. In my 17 years as a teacher I have personally witnessed a large variety of weapons brought into my public middle school. Handguns, tons of knives, and even a shotgun two years ago. Last year I found a .38 in one of my student’s backpack. These are just the things I know about but I’m sure there’s much more that goes on that I’m not aware of. Needless to say this type of thing never makes the news. My brother is a K9 police officer in my city and is often at my school doing drug searches or arresting a student. We average one or two arrests each day in school.

The kids have no fear of the law and consider it a rite of passage if they have to do time in lockup. It literally gives them something to brag about. Law enforcement is thought of as a joke in my school. It’s nothing for a kid to say F.U. Mr. Morrow but they will even do that to the police stationed in my building. Our hands are tied when it comes to discipline in the schools. I’d like to thank the lawyers for that one! Some might argue that we can just suspend the student. Not really. Parents know how to play the game too. Just get the kid on an IEP (Individual Education Program). Reasons for this can be as simple as ADD. Once on an IEP the parents get a check from the government every month for 500 dollars or more and the student cannot be suspended for more than 10 days a year. When you have that kid for 180 days out of the year, 10 days is a complete joke.

It is also very hard to fail a failing student because of their “disability.” I’ll fail a kid for the year but the office will change it to a passing grade.

In short there’s nothing much to keep a student from coming into my class and putting a bullet in my head. I don’t know if allowing teachers permission to carry is the answer. I honestly don’t know what the answer is.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Parents know how to play the game too. Just get the kid on an IEP (Individual Education Program). Reasons for this can be as simple as ADD. Once on an IEP the parents get a check from the government every month for 500 dollars or more and the student cannot be suspended for more than 10 days a year. When you have that kid for 180 days out of the year, 10 days is a complete joke.

It is also very hard to fail a failing student because of their “disability.” I’ll fail a kid for the year but the office will change it to a passing grade.

WOW! You're a teacher? Parents know how to play the game? My son had an IEP. Our schools don't pay a dime. (and I never thought to ask quite frankly) But I'll tell you something, and I really do not care how it sounds. I guess you are one of the lucky ones who has perfect kids, no health issues, and have never had to sit in a Dr's office and get news that crushes your heart. I guess you have never had to worry about losing a job due to all the Dr's office visits, and the special tests not covered under most insurance - well they are not cheap either. And when your child gets bullied and beaten up - well I guess that's OK too, after all he's on an IEP and it's the parents fault - is sure isn't to benefit the kid! The parent's are making a buck?!?! Shame on you!

He graduated with Honors, and got a standing ovation from his peers at the awards ceremony at the end of High School. ADD itself is not a reason for a kid to carry a gun. I really do not like the stereotype, all kids deserve to be given an equal chance to shine regardless of their status, disability or not.

Beth :seeya:

Edited August 19, 2008 by Beth n Rod

[Rick2 42]

Shame on me? Beth, I’m just telling it the way I see it from first hand experience. I know my job and I know it well. Do you think I’m fabricating all this? I’m not attacking every child that has been issued an IEP. There are children that greatly benefit from an IEP. My problem is with the parents who work the system in order to receive undeserved money at their child’s expense. And yes, they do know how to play the game. I don’t know what kind of school your child went to but I work in the inner city area, I doubt it is similar to yours.

As for being a parent I have been blessed with a healthy boy that is now three years old. He will not attend public schools.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Yes, shame on you. Are you denying the stereotype you so blatantly laid out there in such broad and sweeping strokes? Give me a break. Your comments seem to lump them all together, in one basket, and damn the parents. I'm glad you don't teach around here.

I have two healthy kids, both extremely gifted and talented. I'm more proud of them than I can express. And fortunately, we have an excellent school system with wonderful, caring teachers here who embrace the personality of each child.

Beth

[Celeste 341]

What the hell is an IEP? We don't have that abc here, but we do have AIG and ESL. AIG students are above average intellectually so require a higher educated teacher. ESL kids here are the ones that screw up the system. The number of illegals that come to school and can't even speak or read english drag the rest of the school down but where to the school funds go? To those kids, not the ones who have the potential to run our country one day. Where do academic awards go? To the 4th grade ESL student who successfully learns to read See **** Run as opposed to the AIG 4th grader that has just scored through the roof on a 10th grade test.

What all of this has to do with security I don't know - maybe THAT is what needs to be blamed on parents.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

IEP = individualized education program Archived: Guide to the Individualized Education Program

[JMSC 14]

it seems to me that a bigger more powerful angry student could overtake a teacher and take the gun.

[JMSC 14]

Beth, you probably didnt get a dime because your income is too high. My mother and mother in law work with the school system. Some schools are better than others. The bad schools are worse than you can imagine.

Edited August 19, 2008 by JMSC

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Beth, you probably didnt get a dime because your income is too high. My mother and mother in law work with the school system. Some schools are better than others. The bad schools are worse than you can imagine.

You don't get it do you.... I never thought to ask. It's not who I am. And quite frankly, I don't think it even works that way around here. To have an IEP, around here involves a Dr's diagnosis and test results. You don't just walk into the school office with your hand out and get one. There is Dr testing, there is school testing, there is a panel that evaluates each child...it's a huge deal. Around here, the kids with IEP need them, and the parents and teachers work together for the benefit of the student. It's not a crutch, or a meal ticket. We live in a zero tolerance area. Any kid - any at all with any weapon is gone - out. No second chance. No bullying, no harassment, no drugs - zero tolerance. Girls can't even bring a Midol to school for their period. It's pretty extreme. But...it works.

Beth

[Celeste 341]

We have law enforcement in place in all of our schools - not the riot looking police that "bad schools" have, just nice Sheriff's Deputies that are called Resource Officers. As shameful as teachers' salaries already are, why on earth would we want to place them in a position of armed security? I'm pretty positive that putting a law enforcement professional on site would be a welcome assignment for a street cop anyday. Let them do what they are trained to do and let the teachers do what they are trained to do.

[Rick2 42]

Beth, you’re missing the focus of my post. I’m not trying to stereotype here, just stating the facts. Do you deny people abuse the system? If not, where do you think this abuse is more common, the inner city or the more affluent areas? I guess I’m not as much as an optimist as you are. I believe every child has the ability to achieve but I also know that every child will not achieve. Hopefully this will be the minority of the population.

As far as stereotype go, well many are true and some are not. I’m sure you’ll attack me for that statement too. Take for example CPW’s post on illegal immigrants. Do you think they all come here to find jobs and a better life? Some do but look at the population in American prisons and you may be surprised at the percentage of illegals from Mexico. I’ll bet they didn’t come here to study medicine. But I’ll say it again, it’s not all like that. My wife is an immigrant from Eastern Europe and in the 8 years she has been in the country she has worked her way up from being a dispatcher with Comcast to running the Comcast phone network between Massachusetts and Connecticut. If she can do it why can’t others. Simple, they lack the drive. You and Ron run a successful business. Did someone do all the work for you? I doubt it. You and most (if not all) others on this site had a dream of owning their own business and made it happen, we weren’t looking for handouts.

I can’t understand why you take it as a personal attack about my stand on IEPs. Your son had an IEP, so what. I sure there was a ligament reason for it. You keep stressing the fact that he’s very intelligent and made honors with a standing ovation. That’s great, really is, but I never said or even remotely implied anything different. To say I stereotype everyone with an IEP as a cheat and “damn the parents” is totally uncalled for.

[Rick2 42]

How come my typing got smaller at the end of that last post?

Getting back on topic most people I work with would not carry a weapon to work We had this discussion before. I have my gun permit but would never dream of taking it to work with me.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I have always been one to stand up for the proverbial underdog. That is who I am, and it's not going to change. Your post struck a nerve. Still does. And I still feel your post was a blatant stereotype. I'm a mom - if you don't get it, oh well.

Beth

[Rick2 42]

Any kid - any at all with any weapon is gone - out. No second chance. No bullying, no harassment, no drugs - zero tolerance. Girls can't even bring a Midol to school for their period. It's pretty extreme. But...it works.

Beth

Where do they go?

[Rick2 42]

I have always been one to stand up for the proverbial underdog. That is who I am, and it's not going to change. Your post struck a nerve. Still does. And I still feel your post was a blatant stereotype. I'm a mom - if you don't get it, oh well.

Beth

No, I don't get it but I can live with it.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Where do they go?

They get expelled as I understand it.

Beth

[Kory 14]

I could understand other methods I.E tazers or rubber bullets but guns are a bit excesive

[Rick2 42]

When they get expelled they have to be placed in another environment by law, let’s call that “School B.” The problem is School B become increasingly populated with the expelled students. Most children that become expelled don’t learn poor behavior on their own, they are exposed to it at home. Now School B is increasing in size not with just children that are expelled due to behavior issues but the parents that “brought” them there. You may think this is just another blanket statement but I can assure you that when I have to deal with a student that is normally out of control the chances are that mom and dad were never nominated for the Parent of the Year award.

When I lived in Japan they had the same system. Believe me, they have their share of problems too. Kids with behavior issues were removed from school and sent to “private” schools. It was more like warehousing them to keep their influences out of the public schools. Huge disgrace for most of the parents. Does it work? I guess it works to a point. We’ve all heard how much higher their test scores are compared to that of the USA. There’s another side to that too. When they compare test results Japan does not include those children in “private” school where we include all children.

[squirtgun 122]

Alternative schools are 1 stop short of juvy or prison around here.There are plenty of kids in our school system that receive what their parents refer to as a "crazy check" because they were taught from an early age if they misbehave in school momma and daddy if there is 1 get a check for them.

Beth I understand your sensitivity to the situation,but I don't think Rick was trying to offend you or anyone else who has a child with special circumstances.

[Rick2 42]

Alternative schools are 1 stop short of juvy or prison around here.There are plenty of kids in our school system that receive what their parents refer to as a "crazy check" because they were taught from an early age if they misbehave in school momma and daddy if there is 1 get a check for them.

Beth I understand your sensitivity to the situation,but I don't think Rick was trying to offend you or anyone else who has a child with special circumstances.

That's exactly what we call them here, a crazy check. BTW, I work in School B.

Edited August 19, 2008 by Rick2

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Alternative schools are 1 stop short of juvy or prison around here.There are plenty of kids in our school system that receive what their parents refer to as a "crazy check" because they were taught from an early age if they misbehave in school momma and daddy if there is 1 get a check for them.

Beth I understand your sensitivity to the situation,but I don't think Rick was trying to offend you or anyone else who has a child with special circumstances.

Maybe not... but I don't get why anyone capable of making a living does stuff like that. It doesn't seem right to me.

Beth

[squirtgun 122]

Maybe not... but I don't get why anyone capable of making a living does stuff like that. It doesn't seem right to me.

Beth

They do it because the government has allowed them for generations.They pass the info from one generation to the next keeping the whole family in the game.

[Rick2 42]

I think it’s called “learned dependency” or something like that.

Capable of making a living and willing to make a living are two different things. I have a niece that will sleep with anything that has a pulse and has numerous “*******” children. Okay with her because the government pays for them all. Never let her on you home property because she will “fall” and sue your homeowners insurance. On the other hand her brother works his butt off to get where he wants. Most people I know work two jobs especially if they work for the city. My brother whom is a policeman works as a welder for his second job. My other brother is a fireman and owns a landscaping company. We are all capable and willing to work. Not everyone is.

Edited August 19, 2008 by Rick2

[Celeste 341]

Not everyone is.[/quote]

And those are the ones that some ballsy government official needs to CUT OFF.

Celeste