Armstrong-Clark maintenance

[RPetry 564]

I have had the good fortune to be mentored over the past several years by a semi-retired, 35 yr. + in the business, exterior wood contractor. Located in the Southwest, we have never met, but correspond and talk on the phone periodically.

For his own reasons, he prefers to remain anonymous. I have never seen him post anything on internet BBS's. But for the 2nd season now, he has been testing and using a lot of A-C stain. The following are 2 emails and pictures from him. Posted with permission.

_______________________________________________________________

Rick:

Redwood deck after 15 months in the Arizona sun at 5800 feet. The deck was coated with Armstrong Clark Cedar Semi. Deck sits on the southwest end of the house and can get 14 hours of sun daily. I do not think it really needed a recoat, however, we did it to test the ease (or difficulty) of cleaning and recoating A/C.

The deck was cleaned with TSP and Dawn liquid.

We were going to recoat the deck with an A/C toner, but with the severe exposure we decided to recoat with Cedar Semi again.

Next email will have the after recoating photos.

[nick_nite 14]

We washed the deck, color was like a tudor brown and we used A/C............

[Greg R 82]

This is a deck we do every year on the ocean (bay) close to a coal fired power plant as well. The HO wants it done by by brush and roll her way or the hwy...... she stays right there while we do the job and supplies all material and tools-- absolutely no spraying in this area ( she pays very well) All she has used is A/C and it does hold up well but she recently added on alot of new deck boards and fencing and although the stain took well it faded very very quick....We also do a small log cabin for her as well, close to the ocean a with A/C our thoughts on the product eh....... We have to get the ladders up before high tide , she does not like us leaning over the rails......saftey issue......lol.. [ATTACH=CONFIG]14868[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]14867[/ATTACH]

I say this out of nothing more than to perhaps help you in the long run but I wouldn't let my guys stain the deck if it looked like that after the prep. Honestly to me it looks like your staining right over the weathered surface and the resulting color where it's already been applied is showing that. The prep work is 90% of the final appearance you get with any semi trans finish. Again I mean no disrespect - just wondering if there's something your perhaps not doing to get the results we see. Could you explain your process perhaps?

Edited March 4, 2010 by Greg R

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I say this out of nothing more than to perhaps help you in the long run but I wouldn't let my guys stain the deck if it looked like that after the prep. Honestly to me it looks like your staining right over the weathered surface and the resulting color where it's already been applied is showing that. The prep work is 90% of the final appearance you get with any semi trans finish. Again I mean no disrespect - just wondering if there's something your perhaps not doing to get the results we see. Could you explain your process perhaps?

+1

Beth

[nick_nite 14]

If your looking for a newbie to pick on, Im not your guy. I've been in business since the late 70's so kind have a handle on what prep work is. In my post I stated the customer wanted things done her way with her tool selection and specs and she paid well. The only reason I posted is we use the A/C on this deck every other year as that is her favorite product and the question was about maintaince I belive so I was just giving my 2 cts.

I mean no disrespect but I can see this forum is not for me, I like Ken from PP and that is how I got here but I will bow out. If you look at our gallery of decks on my website you can see we know what prep is. If your ever down Ma or RI way please feel free to look me up my contact info is on my website and my phone number.

[Greg R 82]

Hey buddy - I wasn't trying to pick on you or start anything. We can all learn things from one another and to me thats what the forums are all about. Perhaps it was just that picture for that matter. We've had decks that were not not prepped to par and had to go back and reprep..... it happens. Especially when your business is growing and you don't have a hand in everything that happens daily. Stick around - Im sure you can learn some things as well as teach us alot in return.

My comment on the deck prep wasn't to call you out... it was to offer help but perhaps that job was something a little different. Ken's a great guy that also knows his stuff and you seem to have some trust built with him so ask his opinion on the deck prep.

On a positive note - great looking website and I like the business name. Stick around........ I'll shut my trap :)

[acegot 14]

Has anyone seen any of their last years or year before Armstrong jobs this spring?

[James 624]

Are you having problems ? I'm starting to get nervous !

[Celeste 341]

We've seen ours - can't say we're thrilled :(

[acegot 14]

No problems, I saw one the other day that was what I would consider average for 11 months exposure. We didnt load this one up with as much material as we usually do cause it will be an annual clean & recoat.

[James 624]

So now I don't understand your question then ? Maybe your last name should be Gottstahtalk ? LOL......... On a side note , I have had a few people call me about mold problems they have been having. The people are not my customers .They are woodies who live in areas that had severe rain and moisture problems.

Edited April 5, 2010 by James

[RPetry 564]

Just stripped my own ipe' / PT pine deck of A-C rustic brown applied in September of 2008. Of course, there was little left on the exposed ipe' but that is normal for any oil and ipe'. The PT looked just fine at the 18 month mark, mostly vertical wood and lattice, but it held its color very well. Full sun exposure so mold is not a problem. BTW, A-C strips out very easily.

Stopped by last fall to look at a A-C cedar job we did in May of 2008. Both the deck floor as well as the T&G vertical fascia again were fine. Held its color very well, and no mold or mildew, even in shaded areas where the T&G cedar fascia is literally embedded into the ground.

[weathershield 14]

We are into the third year of using A/C and are setting up the maintenance schedule for this year. The photograph below is of a cedar fence cleaned, neutralized and coated with 2 coats of A/C Cedar Tone 2 1/2 years ago at 5000' elevation.. Obviously, it does not require maintenance. The fence photograph shows the South and West facing sides. We will be posting photographs of A/C maintenance jobs as they are completed.

[ShineBrite LLC 14]

This is a close-up shot of a dock we resurfaced with new lumber last year - early spring. We had 8 months of wet weather. It literally never dried out! Most of us in the south east can relate...Any way, everything here molded.

I went back to look at this dock a month or so ago. I originally sealed it as part of the package deal on the new wood, etc. I had a post on that earlier.

This dock, like everything else around here, was fairly moldy. Some might say it turned black, and it actually brought back my Pennofin nightmares for a minute. Used a water wet rag and it seemed to wipe off, leaving the cedar tone/super cedar mix applied earlier showing.

That was a month or so back and I finally got out there to do a total clean-up on Thursday of last week. Wet rag test still did fine. Mold wiped off the finish. Cleaned the dock with a very light mix of bleach, NP-9 surfactant and water. Bleach was 1 quart to 4 gals water. Water still beaded some after cleaning. Probably dented the finish a little, but not too bad. Over all, it'll go to next spring and then get a light cleaning and recoat.

[acegot 14]

So now I don't understand your question then ?

I was just seeing how anyone thought the A-C was holding up so far. By what I've seen, its obvious the semi-trans look better than than the toners.

[ShineBrite LLC 14]

10-4 - Toners have less pigment than semi trans. Semi trans has less pigment than semi solid.... Other ingredients are the same.

I won't even offer a toner unless it's a completely covered, no-sun at all situation. AC doesn't skimp on the pigment in the semis.

[RPetry 564]

Stopped by an A-C job we did in April 2008. The wood is western red cedar, with 2 apps. of A-C Rustic Brown on the horizontals and a single application on the vertical wood. The portion of the deck in this picture gets full sun most of the day.

Color has held up very well. The wood is dirty, but it has not been cleaned in two years. My guess is that a light bleach/soap cleaning is all that is required, with more oil applied to the floor next year. The vertical wood is probably fine for another 2 years before service is needed.

No evidence of any mold or mildew problem. In a fully shaded area, where the T&G cedar fascia is embedded in the ground, the stain has held up just fine. Overall, the performance of A-C Rustic Brown has been exceptional.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Rick,

You don't see the mildew in that shot? I bet if you go wipe it with a rag you get black off of it and have color under it.

Last year we did our own deck with AC Super Cedar (mostly to the floor - our rails still had old Wood Tux), it was a horribly wet year. Got mildew growth. Rod washed it last week so we could strip the old Wood Tux off of the rails, and color remains even on the floor.

I agree the deck should clean up well, and will pop with a nice refresher coat.

Beth :cup:

[RPetry 564]

Beth,

That is exactly the point. In the picture, there is more mildew growth on that little pot than on the horizontal or vertical wood. Here is a shot of part of the deck floor, underneath a grill, in a mostly shaded area.

Sure there is mold/mildew on the surface. After two wet years, this is completely normal. No stain is going to prevent this. This wiped off with a little Simple Green and a rag. What is critical is that the mold/mildew is not in the stain, or worst yet, into the wood. Remember the Behr's debacle and lawsuit many years ago?

You know I'm not a fan of linseed oil exterior stains. But there is every indication that A-C contains more than enough quality mildewcide/fungicide to overcome one of the shortcomings of linseed oil, especially in light of the past two wet seasons.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Exactly.....

My simple rule of thumb ( I'm sure woodie will correct me if needed)

1. under coating = prep error - shame on you

2. in coating = product failure

3. on coating = mother nature

the line between 2 and 3 is slim if you don't clean it off, eventually 3 will become 2, but that happens with time and degradation. Clean the deck people, clean the deck!

Beth

p.s. I am going to go work on my deck now...later dudes!!!! :seeya:

[plainpainter 217]

My little deck/porch out front that I did last autumn with AC semi cedar still looks brand new. A Mahogany deck I did with AC semisolid custom mix, 2 coats wet on wet that I did last summer, still

looks brand new as of a few days ago.

[RPetry 564]

... p.s. I am going to go work on my deck now...later dudes!!!! :seeya:

Slow poke, ... slacker! Got mine done nearly 2 weeks ago! Hah!, that felt good...

[Tonyg 14]

No evidence of any mold or mildew problem. In a fully shaded area, where the T&G cedar fascia is embedded in the ground, the stain has held up just fine. Overall, the performance of A-C Rustic Brown has been exceptional.

Boy, the way this thread started I was getting very worried but this quote coming from the upper echelon of wood care, a contractor that primarily uses another product at that, I feel much better.

[RPetry 564]

Tony,

My experience with A-C is very limited. 2 customer jobs and my own ipe' deck. But with the last two years of wet weather, A-C has held well above most stains as far as pigment retention and prevention of mold/mildew problems. Compared with most commercial exterior wood stains, in my limited experience, it is superior to any previous products with linseed oil.

[RandyVWC 14]

Just recieved a call regarding his Brazilian Walnut deck (1100 sq ft). He had it treated with A/C last year and has notice some algae growing and some fading. He would like it cleaned and restained. We don't do many decks, not to mention Brazilian Walnut decks. Can you folks offer some help regarding how to proceed.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Welcome Randy,

Please go to SETTINGS and fill in your signature.

The Mildew and algae are typical after a wet year like last year.

You would give the deck a light cleaning with a percarbonate or a very mild ( VERY) bleach solution and then wash lightly and neutralize, then rinse. Apply a fresh coat of AC when the deck is dry in the color of his choice.

Beth