What Brushes?

[jhutch 14]

I apologize if this has been discussed previously, but I searched the forum at length over the weekend and didn't find an answer.

What brushes seem to work the best for applying oil-based stains on 2x2 rails? My crews are complaining, since we're unable to get our old brushes at a wholesale price.

I'd like to be able to have them shipped in cases, if possible, or if you've found some hardware chain with good results that may work to.

Any other suggestions or "tricks of the trade" would be welcomed also.

[bigchaz 157]

Why are you using so many brushes? If you have to order by the case you should be spraying. Think of the cost savings

We use two inch white china bristle wooster brand for backbrushing spindles. Ive got maybe half a dozen brushes (2 inch to 6 inch) in a can. They will last for weeks if they don't dry out. Even if they do with Armstrong, just stretch it out a bit, dip it and they are good to go again. Brushes are expensive as crap I would hate to go through a ton of those

[James 625]

I use Wooster brushes. They last for a long time if you take care of them. If they get hard use brush cleaner. I use other brands but I can't think of them. Not cheap, about 20 bucks a pop.

[Aplus 525]

Harbor Freight - 2 inch white china bristle brushes. About 12.00 for a case of 36. Works every bit as good as the pricier ones. I know cuz I've been using them for about 14 years.

[RPetry 564]

If cleaned regularly and taken care of, a high quality brush will last for a few years. We usually spray stain, but back brush, so our brushes get a lot of use.

Purdy, Wooster, or other high quality china bristle brushes are what we use.

[PressurePros 249]

I buy approximately 300 brushes per season at $1 per. All are 4".

I agree with Tony that cheap brushes work just as well. We throw them out after a job or two. We backbrush hard and fast. They start looking like those things kids put at the top of a pencil after a day.

I recently had a brain flatulence and though about cleaning the brushes then I was reminded by a friend:

Brush: $1

Mineral spirits and time to clean a brush: More than $1

[RPetry 564]

I buy approximately 300 brushes per season at $1 per. All are 4".

I agree with Tony that cheap brushes work just as well. We throw them out after a job or two. We backbrush hard and fast. They start looking like those things kids put at the top of a pencil after a day.

I recently had a brain flatulence and though about cleaning the brushes then I was reminded by a friend:

Brush: $1

Mineral spirits and time to clean a brush: More than $1

Ken,

Never thought of it, but that makes sense. If you are using a curing oil, brushes have to be cleaned after each use. Labor and mineral spirits are not cheap.

We almost exclusively use parafin oil. The HLVP stain sprayer gets cleaned once a season, for winter storage. Same with the brushes, unless they are used for a solid oil or A-C.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

If cleaned regularly and taken care of, a high quality brush will last for a few years. We usually spray stain, but back brush, so our brushes get a lot of use.

Purdy, Wooster, or other high quality china bristle brushes are what we use.

+1.

Take care of a good brush, it will last a very long time.

Beth :cup:

[PressurePros 249]

Rick, even using a non-curing oil I would still go this route. I try to promote manic speed (but thorough) on backbrushing. I've tried even $25 brushes and they get hairy very quickly. I know we are just too rough on them but how do you guys prevent that from happening? just by being more cautious?

[Richard 17]

Cheap brushes. I buy them when they are on sale. I would prefer the good ones. It's just not cost effective.

[Adrian 155]

If cleaned regularly and taken care of, a high quality brush will last for a few years. We usually spray stain, but back brush, so our brushes get a lot of use.

Purdy, Wooster, or other high quality china bristle brushes are what we use.

I have a couple that are china from Kwall that I have been using for a couple of years now.

Unfortunately I do not have the tact that you have and I just wrap mine up in a rag and do not clean them at all. The RS oil seems to keep them soft in between uses. Or i'm just lazy. But the Kwall brushes hold up well for me.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

You have to care for them after each use. Don't let the product cure on the bristles. We have had some of our brushed for many years, and they still perform just fine.

Beth

[RPetry 564]

Rick, even using a non-curing oil I would still go this route. I try to promote manic speed (but thorough) on backbrushing. I've tried even $25 brushes and they get hairy very quickly. I know we are just too rough on them but how do you guys prevent that from happening? just by being more cautious?

Ken,

For cutting in close or real detailed work, we use the high quality 2 1/2" "cut" bristle brushes. These last near forever.

For heavy back brushing with the sprayer, we use the 6" straight bristle brushes, they run around $16 to $20. When, and they do often get "hairy" from hard use, a few swipes of a brush comb straighten out the bristles. Try to store them flat.

We actually wear down the bristles over about two years use and toss 'em.

I have a couple that are china from Kwall that I have been using for a couple of years now.

Unfortunately I do not have the tact that you have and I just wrap mine up in a rag and do not clean them at all. The RS oil seems to keep them soft in between uses. Or i'm just lazy. But the Kwall brushes hold up well for me.

Adrian,

When using Ready Seal, we never clean our brushes. Just maybe comb them and store them flat. Nothing lazy about it, parafin oil does not cure, and the brushes remain in great condition for the season. After all, baby oil is non drying!

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I like my big ginormous uber brushes!!!

Beth :banana:

[RPetry 564]

I like my big ginormous uber brushes!!!

Beth :banana:

Beth,

If I could get 8" or 10" natural bristle, high quality brushes, I'd buy 'em. After all, and as a certified wood minx, you gotta' know, bigger is better! Hah!

[bigchaz 157]

Ken can't you still backbrush fast without applying ridiculous pressure to the bristles. I dont want to wipe all the product off by brushing super hard I just want it to spread evenly over the surface. We just run the brush up and down on the spindles barely touching the wood

[PressurePros 249]

My biggest problems would be translating that "be cautious but don't be slow" mentality to employees. I Figure it is worth the $2 to let them slam the brushes into oblivion. I like oil worked well into the spindles. Actually we have started using the 18" floor brushes for backbrushing and that really kicks arse.

To be honest, when a person says "I don't backbrush" I used to gasp like some kind of wood snob. I'm not even convinced that backbrushing makes all that much difference with a good penetrating oil.

Some other Kenclusions:

I don't like transoxide pigments.

A good stain blends blemishes. Every square inch of wood does not have to be immaculate and perfect.

My goal is 40,000 s/f of wood per month during peak season. We fell short this season, but I have been out in the field very often this year. I really opened my eyes and looked at what it is we do. I've made some changes I think will help and that will allow my customers to get better service.

Alright I'm completely hijacking the thread. Just thinking out loud.

[RPetry 564]

... Some other Kenclusions:

I don't like transoxide pigments. ...

Ken,

Why would that be? Care to explain?

[PressurePros 249]

Rick, I don't like the way they finish. The finish is often dirty looking (unless you have completely sanded). Even under sanding, transoxides highlight blemishes and imperfections. Most people are looking for uniform finish. Clay or copper pigments give that. I just looked at a Baker's deck this afternoon that we did last year. I wish I had my camera with me. The spindles were actually the kind you would see inside, turned on a lathe. The grain running through them was awesome. The Baker's just dives in and picks up that grain while at the same time finishes with halfway decent hide but not quite as opaque as other stains. It of course has its own negatives like any finish. To me and for my customers, Armstrong (which has a mix of clay pigment and transoxide), Bakers or TWP are the finishes of choice.

[JFife 14]

I really opened my eyes and looked at what it is we do. I've made some changes I think will help and that will allow my customers to get better service.

.

Like?

[PressurePros 249]

you mean "such as".. I love doing that to you because your mother is an English teacher.

We'll catch up on our weekly call and I'll bounce some things off you. The first and foremost is I won't have to tell customers we are booked for 45 days before I can get to them. I have to maximize spring and that is where my changes have come. Unfortunately rain makes all of them moot.

[JFife 14]

Ken can't you still backbrush fast without applying ridiculous pressure to the bristles. I dont want to wipe all the product off by brushing super hard I just want it to spread evenly over the surface. We just run the brush up and down on the spindles barely touching the wood

Chucky---we vigorously backbrush. We buy our brushes at a place called MBS, owned by Omaha Tools. Our 4" brushes are around $1.15 each, and we go through about 300-400 a year. Waaaay cheaper to throw away than to clean. We backbrush vigorously enough that within 2-4hrs, the brush looks like it got stuck under a lawnmower.

[RPetry 564]

... We backbrush vigorously enough that within 2-4hrs, the brush looks like it got stuck under a lawnmower.

Jon,

That's cause you use crappy stain! Hah! Welcome back, good to see you here.

[bigchaz 157]

Chucky---we vigorously backbrush. We buy our brushes at a place called MBS, owned by Omaha Tools. Our 4" brushes are around $1.15 each, and we go through about 300-400 a year. Waaaay cheaper to throw away than to clean. We backbrush vigorously enough that within 2-4hrs, the brush looks like it got stuck under a lawnmower.

I dont undrestand the point of that. I want as much stain on the wood as possible so why try and brush it all off right away? I only backbrush to keep any drips from forming and spread out the occasional puddles...I want the stain to stay on the wood so it soaks in.

[JFife 14]

I dont undrestand the point of that. I want as much stain on the wood as possible so why try and brush it all off right away? I only backbrush to keep any drips from forming and spread out the occasional puddles...I want the stain to stay on the wood so it soaks in.

Chucky,

Prob depends on the stain. We spray on, let sit for 5min of so, then backbrush. The brushing evens out the coat so that the entire surface looks evenly wet.....which is what we want. At that point it will cure out evenly. When we backbrush, we don't "pull off" any stain. Just move it from the high spots to the low spots.

[RPetry 564]

Rick, I don't like the way they finish. The finish is often dirty looking (unless you have completely sanded). Even under sanding, transoxides highlight blemishes and imperfections. Most people are looking for uniform finish. Clay or copper pigments give that. ....

Ken,

I am going on 9 yrs. in this deck business. If you prep right, in 95% of the jobs, trans oxide stains are not a problem. The finished job is more than the customer paid for. We do not sand most jobs, its easy. Flood the wood with as much baby oil as possible. Easy.