350 ft of Hose and Chemical Injector?

[Klean Spray 14]

I have a 5.5 GPM 24-horse machine on a trailer with about 10-ft of jumper hose to the rear connected ( quick Dis. ) to a general pump Fixed chemical injector ( 2.1, 3-5 GPM ) then connected to a hose reel. Orginally I had 250-ft of 3/8 hose and never had problems with chemical injectors "drawing". I added an additional 100-ft of hose to make a total of 350-ft. For some reason it will not draw the chemical? When I disconnect gun and open the ball valve no problem soap will draw? This is what I have tried to this point:

- Changed Fixed injector to ( 2.3 5-8 GPM ) NO Good

- Tried different gun ( 10-GPM ) No Good

- Tried Allision Super Suck Adjustable injector ( 3-5 GPM ) No Good

I really would like to keep the same set-up and keep the chemical tank and chemical injector on the trailer.

Any Thoughts??? Thanks

[Russ Spence 76]

With a standard injector (2.1 mm) the max you can draw chems thru is 300 feet of hose.

[Russ Johnson 141]

Either drop down 1 more size on the injector or install what you've got after the first 100' of hose.

[Rick2 42]

Either drop down 1 more size on the injector or install what you've got after the first 100' of hose.

That's the way to do it.

[810F250 14]

Either drop down 1 more size on the injector or install what you've got after the first 100' of hose.

Dropping down 1 more size means what Russ J?

Which would draw more, drop down one more size with his 300ft set up or current injector after 100ft?

[Russ Spence 76]

I am assuming he means a 1.8mm

[Christopher 102]

I have a 5.5 GPM 24-horse machine on a trailer with about 10-ft of jumper hose to the rear connected ( quick Dis. ) to a general pump Fixed chemical injector ( 2.1, 3-5 GPM ) then connected to a hose reel. Orginally I had 250-ft of 3/8 hose and never had problems with chemical injectors "drawing". I added an additional 100-ft of hose to make a total of 350-ft. For some reason it will not draw the chemical? When I disconnect gun and open the ball valve no problem soap will draw? This is what I have tried to this point:

- Changed Fixed injector to ( 2.3 5-8 GPM ) NO Good

- Tried different gun ( 10-GPM ) No Good

- Tried Allision Super Suck Adjustable injector ( 3-5 GPM ) No Good

I really would like to keep the same set-up and keep the chemical tank and chemical injector on the trailer.

Any Thoughts??? Thanks

I had a similar situation a while back and found out it was the guns. Did you get the guns from Northern Tool? I bought some of their guns and 2 different style guns would not let me downstream soap.

I disconnected the gun from the ball valve like you did, opened up the ball valve and it would pull soap. I tried a Suttner gun and it would pull soap.

I have heard of other people having the same problem with some guns out there, I would stick to a brand name gun.

[Christopher 102]

Either drop down 1 more size on the injector or install what you've got after the first 100' of hose.

This is something that I have wanted to try for a while now.

I am working on an apartment complex and you can't get too close to the buildings, they are good size and I have to use almost 600' of pressure hose on one building and a little bit more on another building. With 2 machines running, I have about 1225' of pressure hose in use with 2 guys washing.

I tried adding the downstream injector close to where I was working and I could not get it to work. I called Paul to talk to him about it since I bought it from him when he was at Espec a while back and he gave me some ideas to try out. This is the Super Suds Sucker. One of his suggestions was the answer to the problem, Thanks Paul!

I am running either 100' or 150' of pressure hose after the injector and things are working out good.

This is good advice, Thanks Russ!

Anyone that has to string out a lot of hose, do like what Russ suggested and keep the injector close to you, it does work good.

[Paul Kassander 26]

The less restriction you have on the line after the injector the better it will draw. Moving the injector closer to the gun will reduce that restriction or 'back pressure'. The type of gun can have a big impact on draw rates as the size of the ball in the gun can create restriction or back pressure. the larger the ball the better the flow and you will be able to achieve greater draw.

By reducing the nozzle size in the injector (with long hose lengths) you are reducing the overall flow. This creates less back pressure in the line and increasing the pressure differential in the injector creating a stronger draw in the venturi chamber of the injector. This is why you are able to draw with longer length hose.

[810F250 14]

I think it is possible that a lower grade trigger(or one that is operated at its upper capacity) in combination with standard lance my produce noticeable losses.

I remember the better guns were 13/32" check ball,.......is there any trigger guns with larger than this?

Is their a high pressure trigger gun that has extra large internals and a 3/8" outlet?

[Russ Johnson 141]

High volume guns are available, but they ain't cheap.

http://www.suttner.com/products/Details.cfm?PID=168&CID=5 $175.40

http://www.suttner.com/products/Details.cfm?PID=169&CID=5 $215.76

[RSuds 24]

We have done it all over the years. We do a lot of buildings that we use 300-600 feet of hose and we have used a small pump that you can put a line into the super suds sucker that will help ( turn the pump on-when you change to bigger nozzle it will go on and not work with a pressure nozzle) but it has some problems. The best way is to put the chemical thru the pump and you can turn a valve on and off. Only use cat pumps for this and you will need to change the seals every 3-6 months. It is not hard to change seals and will cost around 100-150 but the time it saves on everything is worth it. You can turn the valve off and wash down with bigger nozzles also.

[810F250 14]

High volume guns are available, but they ain't cheap.

http://www.suttner.com/products/Details.cfm?PID=168&CID=5 $175.40

http://www.suttner.com/products/Details.cfm?PID=169&CID=5 $215.76

Thanks Russ J, the 203600600 looks like the one to go with, its probably repairable ?

[810F250 14]

We have done it all over the years. We do a lot of buildings that we use 300-600 feet of hose and we have used a small pump that you can put a line into the super suds sucker that will help ( turn the pump on-when you change to bigger nozzle it will go on and not work with a pressure nozzle) but it has some problems. The best way is to put the chemical thru the pump and you can turn a valve on and off. Only use cat pumps for this and you will need to change the seals every 3-6 months. It is not hard to change seals and will cost around 100-150 but the time it saves on everything is worth it. You can turn the valve off and wash down with bigger nozzles also.

Sounds convenient, do you have it operating via remote?

[Cajun Cleanin 64]

If you move down to a smaler injector at what point do you start losing gpm?I just bought an 8 gpm machine and have a 5 to 8 injector inline at the pump.Does this reduce my flow?

[RSuds 24]

It is even harder when you go to the 8-10 gal. machines to get chemical.

[Jerry 24]

Downstream chemical injectors are super-sensitive to “flow-restriction”..

Rusty fittings, especially rusty hose-ends are really bad.

Lots of hose on a reel is flow restriction,

The reel swivel is a flow restrictor too.

At the inlet of the hose reel is my recommendation too, BUT..

Do it on a quick coupler, so you can remove it when you don’t need it.

Or, use the ST61 injector..

it’s the one -size- fits –all (from 2 to about 8gpm),

It is adjustable for system-flow, and you can open up the venturi

to NOT restrict flow when you don’t need chemical.

They are very easy to adjust, and you can leave it on, if you like.

Call for details

[big mike 14]

Here's what we do to increase draw rates: 1- NEVER RUN THROUGH A HOSE REEL (too much restriction). 2- always use one less size than your machine calls for. 3-250' max length on the line. Although this may create problems for some, we've found that most times we only are using 250 feet of hose or less, and if you don't use the reel, you can hook up an injector on less hose if you have it in sections on the reel (we run 3-100 sections with QC's on our reels)".

If you are having troubles with long pressure lines and chemical draw rates, look at adding a Shurflo pump to the injector for an "induction" system. If you are unfamiliar with this, check the search function for "induction".

[Jerry 24]

Mike,

the addition of the SureFlo is brilliant.

..add that to the Variable-Venturi ST-61 Injector, and you have the best of all.

[Klean Spray 14]

Thanks all for your help! This will give me some options.

[Jerry 24]

..another note on running a chem injector before a hose reel..

the smaller the swivel, the worse the flow-restriction, but..

the crimped-on-ends of a older hose can be rusted almost shut

"when you're not looking"..

So,

if your hose is more than a year old, ream out the rust from the ends once in a while,

or have the ends replaced,

..so you can enjoy the workspeed you are already paying for in Horsepower & fuel.

[810F250 14]

..another note on running a chem injector before a hose reel..

the smaller the swivel, the worse the flow-restriction, but..

the crimped-on-ends of a older hose can be rusted almost shut

"when you're not looking"..

So,

if your hose is more than a year old, ream out the rust from the ends once in a while,

or have the ends replaced,

..so you can enjoy the workspeed you are already paying for in Horsepower & fuel.

So true!!