weep holes troubles

[JBenson 14]

I recently washed a house with white vinyl siding, i used an X-jet. A couple days later i got a call about stains on the siding and i went to look and it was where water came out the weep holes in the bottom of the siding. It was mostly towards the top of the house so i imagine it has to do with the angle of the water as it hits the bottom of the siding and the lower your washing you hit the face of the siding head on. I spray with the seams and not into them so i know that is not where it gets in. This all came about after i left the homeowner happy. What did i do wrong and how do you prevent this. Thank you in advance. One more question, I can not get bug poop stains off the siding, i even scrubbed with a bristled brush and the homeowner swears they will come off but this has been on the siding for a long time, i think the stains penetrated the siding, what do you think.

[Barry M 73]

Agreed on chemical usage and not pressure. Do you ever wonder why many directions use the word "agitiate" when working with chemicals and cleaners. This means they need scrubbing. If you really think you can clean rust, acid rain, jet fuel, mold, mildew, algae, dirt, clay stains, egg residue, etc. without scrubbing and using ladders at times then I am disagreeing with you. Again, these are just my opinions..

I'm not going to argue my opinion with you anymore, besides you have a ton more experience than I do. Which, by the way, is what I meant by calling you old school. Okay it wasn't really, but it sounds good, I certainly didn't mean to call you old Everett.

I see your point and will definately be looking closer at the next two story house I do. Everett do you wear a safety harness while scrubbing from the ladder? I understand your method, except how do you rinse? Rinsing from a ladder seems extremely dangerous. If your not doing it from a ladder your still spraying water from the ground at the wrong angle which would still leave room for the weep hole problem.

[Jeff 232]

I wish i could get the prices you do up north, but i wouldnt get it down here. I do small one story homes for about $100+ this is 1100 - 1600 sq ft homes. I brush almost all gutters and apply ox as needed and quite often restore the vinyl shutters and I charge more for that if I see it needs to be done when I do the estimate. I run into into alot of siding this is oxidized and i try to get the homeowner to let me clean the siding properly and I tell them the price and they tell me no they just want the dirt, mold & mildew off. Some homes Ive told them i cant do them at all because the oxidation is so bad, People have told me why did you charge my neighbor this amount and you want to charge me over double. I just try to explain to them the problem with thier siding. Ive done only a few homes this year that they were willing to pay. Im lucky thou, Id say at least 85-90% of the homes i do are one story and are washed once a year. 2 guys working different homes we can get 5-8 homes a day plus some extras as gutters which many homes have very little gutters to clean, driveways etc. The higher end homes 2500sq ft & up I always get much better money. But alot of the homes are splash & dash with alittle extra care than my comptition.

Do people up north usually wash thier homes every year

[Everett Abrams 501]

Hey Barry, we aren't arguing. This is a good discussion. Forget experience too, We all learn from a good discussion like this how others perform there work. Please do not stop posting, I may learn something as well.

Safety harnesses are used when we need to go on a roof. I always use two man crews when ladder or height work are an issue. Rinsing from a ladder around 2000 psi isn't too bad, you should be very careful in reaching out is all. It is better to move the ladder as necessary. The ladder actually gets me above a 90 degree angle from the siding. It reduces the need for spraying more directly under the lip, seams, and weep holes. Harder with out pictures.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Hey Ev,

On that $100 per hr, if you are sending 2 guys out, is that per person per hour?

Beth

[Barry M 73]

Hey Jeff, I get a dollar a linear foot for one story and two bucks a foot for two story. I'm doing a small one story ranch this weekend for $210 it should take me under 2 hours.

Everett, I wasn't going anywhere, and your right this is a good discussion. I'm just having trouble coping with the idea of pulling the trigger of my gun standing on a ladder up against a house. It just seems dangerous, not to mention all the up and down and moving the ladder. But again I do see your point about getting at a 90 degree angle to the siding for rinsing. I just realized I may have experienced this weep hole problem myself this summer. I got called back the next day to take care of some steaks on the front of a house that looked good when I left. At the time I wasn't sure what had happened, but this thread has me thinking it was crap running out of the weep holes after I left. It was nasty crap, looked like shingle oil and dirt.

Your way may take longer than a splash and dash but so did having to drag all my equipment out again to go take care of some streaks. I'm assuming every house is different and that scrubbing may not always be the case. Every tool and technique has it's place and situation, so I will stay open minded on this one. Thanks for your input.

[JBenson 14]

Wow, i am glad i asked the question. Our soap wasnt doing what was needed so we brushed the entire house, now i dont feel so bad. This thread has given us alot of insight, i want to thank you all for the discussion. The only thing i will not do is spray from a ladder regardless of pressure, i would have to go with the extension wands.

[Jeff 232]

What are you guys washing off houses that you need so much brushing & direct pressure, is it pollution, dirt? Just wondering if its a north/south thing. Do must people you deal with up in your area clean yearly

I mostly deal with a little green mold and black mildew on trim and of course some dirt, dust, webs & some bugs and a lizard or 2. I have had to brush a couple homes in 5 years. Mostly everything washes right off with application of chems, brushing gutters & a real good rinsing & the homes sparkle

[squirtgun 122]

Weep holes will usually stop leaking before you are done with an entire house wash.We always to do a final walk around before we pack everything up.Most times the runs can be rinsed clean with garden hose pressure.The trick is to clean the siding without getting water behind it.As stated before and try rinse away from seams and try to avoid rinse at extreme angles.

We use the original xjet for most application and rinsing.Ladders and brushes are used where and when needed(windows,sills and frames).90% of the time we use the low pressure tip to put chems on a house,even if that means bringing out an 8' wand or a 24' extension.While I prefer rinsing with the xjet low pressure tip there are times that a 4010 or 8010 are used to rinse.It depends on the amount of dirt,algae and mold present.

I used to think the xjet was the end all,beat all solution for house washing.I now know it takes a combination of tools to give the customer a detailed final product.

[CCPC 26]

What are you guys washing off houses that you need so much brushing & direct pressure, is it pollution, dirt? Just wondering if its a north/south thing. Do must people you deal with up in your area clean yearly

I mostly deal with a little green mold and black mildew on trim and of course some dirt, dust, webs & some bugs and a lizard or 2. I have had to brush a couple homes in 5 years. Mostly everything washes right off with application of chems, brushing gutters & a real good rinsing & the homes sparkle

Took the words right out of my mouth. You guys up north most be fighting a lot more pollutants of some kind or another, because as Jeff stated, I rarely come across anything that my chems and a low pressure rinse dosen't take care of. I rarely rinse with more than 250-500psi. The only things on a house that I have to brush are gutters, and some times the facia. I use my M-5 on every house wash, but usually only for applying chems, most are done without the use of a ladder.

[Barry M 73]

I'm with you Jeff and Lance, I've never brushed a house except for the gutters. But I guess every area and every house is different. But the point Everett makes, about rinsing from a ladder on a two story at a 90 degree angle or more to the siding, is a good one. He was saying that too many people use their x-jets to rinse from the ground (me included), thus shooting water right into the weep holes on the bottom lip of the siding. This is probably what happened to the starter of this thread. After he left the job water, dirt and grime started seeping out of the weep holes thus creating streaks. Have you ever had this happen to you Jeff? That you know of anyway? I won't scrub an entire house unless I see something that is not coming off. But I will be very cautious now of the way, and the angle I rinse at. This is just one of those threads that allow us to see other successful peoples methods and to take what we want from it.

[Jeff 232]

I understand not getting under the siding, I almost always apply chems & rinse at an angle because yes in the past when i started PWing I had alot of the problem with weep holes, well not alot, but it did happen. So I figured it out. I apply at angle and rinsing I actually go from left to right or vise versa and its more like pushing the water across & down the siding, with alot less chance of anything getting behind siding or in holes. these 1 story homes with 15 -20 foot peaks, i cant justify doing them another way. Its clean, no problems with drips etc. Homes with brick & or wood siding is even easier. Homes with stucco/dryvit, sometimes I have homeowners request we dont do the fronts, but thats because of poor building and theres a ton of law suits and replaced dryvit around. As for being on ladder with wand I dont like that. I just do it the best way I know how and cost effectivly, with very good results and happy repeat customers. I am in no way putting down how Everitt & others do thier house washing, I just like the way I do it, with simular results. But I also am learning every day and from this thread!

[tropical wave 22]

Mike, have you ever run into a situation where even up close washing was not enough? I'm talking about where you have to break out the brush and actually break the dirt bond.

Ken, yes I have had to brush......I also brush gutters, so the brush is out anyway. I dont brush everything, no way, no how, but stubborn areas if needed.

and the quotes from the article are from a catalog, which is just someones opinions from a company, not right, not wrong, just something in print that is out there....

[Aplus 525]

Rinsing from a ladder around 2000 psi isn't too bad, you should be very careful in reaching out is all.

2000psi? On a ladder? Are you sure about that Everett?

I use a #9 or #10 tip, which for me equates to around 700-800 psi, and that's more than enough pressure for almost everything I encounter.

With an extension, the lower pressure is almost a necessity to be able to control it effectively.

The only time I use a ladder is in cases where I can't get a good angle at the siding, like an instance of attached garage on a two story. The ladders are always in the trailer ready for use, but I don't figure that I have to use them every time.

While I understand how a homeowners perceptions of value could maybe increase if they see you working harder, or longer, the bottom line to me is when they come out and check the finished product, and are pleased with the results.

[PressurePros 249]

If I had to use ladders to wash a house I would go exclusively to deck work. I hate ladders. I actually hate noodle wands even more. I have not had a problem with downstreaming chemical on, letting it emulsify the dirt and then rinsing. The 00300 nozle lets me stand back pretty far from the house so water is hitting it much more straight on than the X-Jet. The dirt up here isn't that much different but I do think housewashing is a newer phenomenon in my area (ie most houses have never been washed)

Mike..Delco

[tropical wave 22]

Mike..Delco

Ken..E-Spec

[PressurePros 249]

Thanks, I knew I remembered reading it somewhere.

[JeffW 14]

Ladders are as safe as the user.And just because it may look clean from the ground does'nt mean that it is clean."Cleaner than it was" is not acceptable for me.For you guys who spray and rinse,....when you're done with your next house get a ladder and go up and see how well you did especially the window area.Like I said earlier, if I used cleaner strong enough to clean without brushing I would be doing alot of aluminum trim painting.

[Jeff 232]

Ladders are as safe as the user.And just because it may look clean from the ground does'nt mean that it is clean."Cleaner than it was" is not acceptable for me.For you guys who spray and rinse,....when you're done with your next house get a ladder and go up and see how well you did especially the window area.Like I said earlier, if I used cleaner strong enough to clean without brushing I would be doing alot of aluminum trim painting.

Jeff, Ladders are safe, but not as safe when holding a wand, with water & pressure coming out of it. Ive used ladders all my life, as a steel painter in the painters union and I was on many many large projects. I have dealt with OSHA and have had many OSHA training classes, some years ago. I can tell you if you were on a large project and OSHA showed up and saw you on a ladder witha pressure wand working, the least they would do is tell your boss to get you down and not do it that way or at the most, close the job down. I know they would have you erect staging or get a man lift

Of course you wont see OSHA on any residential jobs so you can do it. But it isnt totally safe, no matter how experienced anyone is. Not to say I myself havent done washing off ladders and many other things off of ladders. But the way you talk of ladder use is against many common OSHA rules. As for clean enough we all have are own ways and My customers are happy with the job we do and so am I and I making a good living and have a great reputation in my area.

[Everett Abrams 501]

2000psi? On a ladder? Are you sure about that Everett?

Tony, you have seen my posts over the years about the least amount of pressure possible to do the job. I even mentioned it in this thread. What I am saying is 1500-2000psi is not that bad from a ladder. I did not say in every instance and all the time. So to answer your question, yes I am positive and I am sure others have and do the same thing.

I will also "guarantee" that you from the ground and me actually getting up close and personal seeing the actual results of my work that I am comfortable saying that I "know" that I am doing a better job. From the ground you can only assume that you are.

[JeffW 14]

I never said I rinse from a ladder.When you scrub a house you only need to rinse off the soap.You can spray the house with low pressure and let the water carry the soap and dirt off the siding.Water getting underneath the siding is minimal if any at all.I rinse from the ground with a long extension added to my wand.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Do you find this thread helpful? Please remember to help other users by rating the thread. Thank you.

Beth :cup:

[Jeff 232]

Beth & Rod, Id like to rate this BBS, Its great !! To bad it took me so long to get here. I like all the info & discussions and ofcourse all the other members what an informative and fun tool this is. Keep up the great work

What a great group of folks:club:

[wesley 15]

Everette, If you have two guys washing are you making around $50 an hour? Working harder for less money does not appeal to me. You also stated that you charge less so the customer will do the maintenance thing, I'm not putting down the way your guys do it, I know I could not compete in my area washing homes like that. I will also say that the only difference in my wash and yours is the window seal on two story houses if they leave the screens in, but I ask all my customers to remove screens prior to washing. After saying all that it may just boil down to your area versus mine. In my area detergents and low pressure do the trick, who knows if I were in your area I may have to wash the same way. Also you stated the largest home washing company in your area advertises hand scrubbing or washing, that might be another good reason you wash like that to compete with them.

-Please don't rip into me to bad!!!

Thanks, Wesley

[Everett Abrams 501]

This is really getting detailed now. You guys are getting hung up on pricing and how many people are being used. It really doesn't matter as far as pricing if I am making money. Let me try this approach, if the going rate is $500 for any service or job that one does. Then from that you start deducting your controllable and fixed expenses, whatever you have left is your profit. You will have to pay rent, electric, phone, insurance etc. some of which is a fixed expense and some, or a portion is controlled. Labor is a controllable expense. How I run my business may be different from you but it doesn't change the price of the job(there are variables in pricing but relatively the same). So let's take that $500 job and it takes you all day to do that job by yourself. You have reduced a lot of expenses and you walk away with a good portion of that. Now I come in and do two of those jobs a day with an employee that cost me $100/day. I take that $100 off the $1000 and I am left with $900 with a few dollars more in expenses related to having the employee but, at the end of the day who has more dollars in their pocket me or you?

Same is with the house washing. Taking someone's example of 3-4 hours to do a house washing by themselves they would gross $600 at the end of the day(if they do two houses). Me with my helper get three houses done I gross $900 and pay someone $100.00 for the day. In the end I have more dollars in the bank. With two people you are working safer and more productively for more money, not less.

Also in regards to pricing there is not one of us that does not give discounts for more frequent cleanings. This is how you bid jobs successfully and create more income with less work. Take flatwork for instance, I give a one time, or initial price, then I give pricing that is tiered for monthly, quarterly, bi-annually, etc. so that in the end they see a savings per cleaning if they do it more often. Going back more often is easier to clean and you can afford to pass on the savings that it will save you in time and effort. What I am saying here is many contractors who wash homes do not even use this approach. If you were to charge $300 for a house and they got it done every four years how much money will you charge or make in four years? Do you think they will even call you again? I tell the customer that it is $300 now and if you do it every year it will be $250.00 and your house will always look this way. If you wait two years it will be $275. If you wait after that I am sure there will be a price increase and you will probably pay more like $350. This creates a maintence plan for the customer, increased traffic for me, upsell potential on later work(driveway, deck, pool, fence, etc), and I put more dollars into my account, use these jobs to fill schedules, add value to my business, and when I go back I can clean less agressively and rely on other equipment like X-jets and such to do the cleaning.

FYI- In my area I am aware of my competition but I would like to think they are trying to keep up with me! I do not worry too much about them.

Now I am giving away too much for free! Send checks to ...

[JeffW 14]

I do one house a day, 3-4 days a week. The other days I do decks and roofs.I do not work on Sunday.If I would try and do two houses a day it would make the next day come to soon.I got into business to make life easier, not harder.I'm usually back in the driveway by noon.I use the rest of the day to look at work and/or get ready for the next job.And after that I may go fishing or just do nothing at all.