Gas prices

[Jeff 232]

Hear we go again gas prices are going up & up. What a PITA, call or email your elected officials and tell them youu want lower prices, if enough people complain to our elected officials, the prices usually come down. Tell them you'll vote this upcoming election.

Its all a game.

I just saw that the head of Exxon is retiring this month or year and his retirment package is $ 450,000,000 Thats right 450 Million and he made $52 million last year.

Tell me they arent taking advantage of us. capitalism is fine but this is ridiculous. Call your congressman & reps and tell them their jobs are on the line

www.senate.gov or www.house.gov you can find your reps & congressmen and email or call them

JL

[PRESSURE PACKED 14]

Havent Read All Post, But We Use Gas And I Dont See How You Cant Agree That The Price Is B.s. I Have Large Machines That Consume Good Amounts Of Gas Not To Mention Trucks,

[Jeff 232]

Don't get so excited. This thread self moderated about 2 pages ago....

As for labels, you can't have a political discussion of any depth without labels. Labels serve to identify your own position and that of others without pages and pages of repeated rhetoric. I am a libertarian, Mike is a conservative, Jeff is an ultra liberal with fascist tendancies. That says a tremendous amount in just a few words.

As for name calling, I don't think it got out of line at all. One person hung a label on me that was colorful, descriptive, and probably justified. If the caller and the call-ee both agree that the name/label is appropriate, where in lies the problem? For another example, you guys up there might not take to kindly to being called a redneck, but there are a good number of people down here who wear it as a badge of honor...

Its funny how you say ultra liberal, if you knew my thoughts on Immigration, gay marriage, TV programming, Hollywood and the bums that want everything for free from the goverment, you might not say ultra liberal, liberal yes ultra? I'm no Barbara Streisand . I am liberal and yes I think the goverment can help its own middle class people more than it does presently. But ultra liberal to me is following the party line blindly. That I do not do. Hell the Democrats dont even have a party line or message worth anything now. but who does?

Phil you having any nightmares. I just read were the Congress might be having hearings on gas prices LOL Just funning with you.

Lets see if prices go down a little after the hearings. I dont think they will , between Venezuela & Iran we are going to have these prices for ever. I think we should just bomb the bastards:bullistic

[Mike Williamson 198]

I agree about Condi. Jeb's a no-go because of the Florida election issues.

Oh, I wasn't serious about Jeb...I just say that in discussions like this to get the Bush haters/lefties hyperventilating.

Oh, and BTW...I AM a libertarian, with conservative leanings. I think the only two things I disagree with the Lib. party is the abortion issue and the idea of interfering in other nations' business (as with Iraq).

[Mike Williamson 198]

Havent Read All Post, But We Use Gas And I Dont See How You Cant Agree That The Price Is B.s. I Have Large Machines That Consume Good Amounts Of Gas Not To Mention Trucks,

What Does The Size Of Your Machines And The Amount Of Fuel Your Trucks Use Have Anything To Do With What The Price Of Fuel Should Be??

Unless You Can Explain To Me Exactly How The Price Of Gasoline Comes To Be (Ie What Factors Determine Price), Then You Can't Really Say That The Price Is B.s.. A Simple Bad Feeling When You Pump Gas Or Anger Towards The Gas Companies Doesn't Qualify As An Informed Position.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

As for labels, you can't have a political discussion of any depth without labels. Labels serve to identify your own position and that of others without pages and pages of repeated rhetoric.

While I can appreciate what you are conveying, the heart of the matter is their are rules in place to help each other conduct themselves with respect and courtesy towards each other and keep the conversations productive.

Each may label themselves as they like as you have demonstrated and that is fine. To all: It is crossing the line to label someone else who hasn't established that parameter for themselves.

In my opinion, the labels only help to create boundaries and sides in which battles are defined. Take FOX for an example. Point made in one sentence. It is wholly unproductive as we can see in our own political system with so many taking sides and none agreeing on anything except how to make more money at the expense of the voters. Politics are at the root of our nations governmental failure and our citizens dividedness.

We are a community of people discussing the items of relevance to our trade here. This is networking, educational discussion, experience, opinions and place to find answers. Politics does not give answers by any stretch but misleads or puts off by unscrupulous contrivances in order to manipulate others. Period.

That is not what TGS is about.

Heres my .02 on the topic: Gas Prices

Gas prices are going up and I notice the trend that each spring they shoot up predictably day by day. .01-.02 here and more in others but in a weeks time we have gone from 2.89 to 3.11. Why? Is there a shortage? Does the price change for oil companies like clockwork? Gee, it must be nice to be an oil field owner to dictate the costs of oil in sync with a seasonal thermometer. Or...is it the fact that people start to travel more, outdoor machines, construction equipment become more widely used and

construction business becomes more active. Fuel consumption rates go up during these times so they raise the prices and make the most out of the peak demand. Electric companies do the same thing. In the fall they begin to decline. Why? because the season of higher fuel consumption is ending and they have made the money they want. Now they can play nice and lower the price of oil for heating purposes and make it look like its a humanitarian effort and raise them again the next spring and justify it accordingly. It's all a power play. And since we are all dependent on fuel for our transportation and to power our equipment we are forced to pay whatever the oil companies dictate.

How else can we power our equipment? Unfortunately we rely on the oil companies to give us that too. Ethanol, sugar gas, bio fuel, propane are all under subsidies of the major oil companies and they dictate the prices as well. Due to environmental and hazardous natures, we are forbidden to produce it ourselves. Needless to say we are all trapped because of the infrastructure and technology we have allowed ourselves to be dependent upon. Politicians and legislators are powerless to do anything about it because these oil companies support special interests and fund the government in ways I will not discuss publicly and therefore I productively pose the question to all here...how do you contend with the anticipated peak of the prices you will be paying?

Rod!~

ps-no labels were used here in the process of making a post. ;)

btw, Iraq was just the beggining of the petroleum wars. It's going to get a lot worse folks. Time to start rethinking things.

[Jeff 232]

I dont know for sure but there was a mild winter in a lot of the country so the oil companies didnt make as much as they thought, so now they are upping the price a little more than usual

There are things going on in Venezuela & Iran that are also raising the prices, but a barrel of oil has gone up say 13% but the price of gas has gone up say 31%. My percentages are just a guess but I still believe other than just reason of supply & demand and world situations that the prices are going up for larger profits which is fine within reason.

I dont like it but its life, but I also have a right to complain and I thinks its a duty of Americans to complain or protest their feelings www.senate.gov www.house.gov If you want to tell your reps what you feel try these web sites

[Jeff 232]

I had a long reply and lost it. BUSH 43 is the worst President!

I agree & I think in time & history it may well be true also. We'll just have to wait & see

I actually hope I'm wrong!!!

I'd love to see the Middle east democratized & people see things with a positive out look and no more terrorism and fighting among Jews, muslims & christians

I'd like to see the tax cuts that have gone to the wealthy & large corps turn into more jobs & benifits for the majority of the average Americans. That would be great

Id like to see the borders safer & protected

Id like to see the moral standards of people in general to get better. Id like to not worry about what my children will grow up and see

I want my goverment to protect us from evil and not create evil

I really hope this wonderful country of ours only keeps getting better for all

Time will tell

[PLD 14]

Its funny how you say ultra liberal, if you knew my thoughts on Immigration, gay marriage, TV programming, Hollywood and the bums that want everything for free from the goverment, you might not say ultra liberal, liberal yes ultra? I'm no Barbara Streisand . I am liberal and yes I think the goverment can help its own middle class people more than it does presently. But ultra liberal to me is following the party line blindly. That I do not do. Hell the Democrats dont even have a party line or message worth anything now. but who does?

Actually, I stole ultra liberal from you rather than risk using a non-approved label.

Wow. You want government intervention in personal issues AND economic issues. If I am reading you correctly [label removed] or a [label removed] but you are definitely not a [label removed]... I would suggest that you do some research, as none of the major perties fits yous demographic.

Personally, I am a libertarian [note:label self imposed]. I am one of those bums who wants govt OUT of our socio-economic lives.

[Mountain View 14]

Bill Richardson vs. John McCain for Prez.

I think this would be a good, respectful race (if the respective party extremists could be kept out of it.)

Political instability around the world, Iraq, and market speculators are the primary reasons for oil prices at the moment. Just think where much of our imports are coming from.

Saudi Arabia (terrorists are trying to blow up oil infrastructure).

Chad (look under political instability and corruption in the dictionary).

Mexico (running out of reserves).

Russia (still a crap shoot).

Venezuela (that clown has spouted off about cutting off the US, however unlikely).

Canada (better beer than us!!)

Not to mention China and India sucking the oil teat hard.

Add that on to our own insatiable appetite and it's no big surprise.

As far as labeling someone a fascist, while the users definition is partially correct it is a very inflammatory term that, in my opinion, is used in poor judgment.

Taken from Merriam-Webster DictionaryM

Main Entry: fas·cism

Pronunciation: 'fa-"shi-z&m also 'fa-"si-

Function: noun

Etymology: Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces

1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

[Jeff 232]

Actually, I stole ultra liberal from you rather than risk using a non-approved label.

Wow. You want government intervention in personal issues AND economic issues. If I am reading you correctly [label removed] or a [label removed] but you are definitely not a [label removed]... I would suggest that you do some research, as none of the major perties fits yous demographic.

Of course none of the major parties fits my demographics, do any of the major or lesser parties fit anyones demographics to a tee, Probably not! And thats OK. Do you believe in everything your chosen party & candidates say , probably not. Get my point??

As for doing research, school & reading books unfortunately that isnt me, you may being a smart guy can tell that of me. I was never a great student or reader, I like a fool throughout my younger life was getting high or just trying to do everything people told me not to do. I'll leave the research & reading to you and thats how I now learn, from others

As for wanting goverment intervention in personal & economic issues, its always been that way and is that way now and I'm almost 100% sure will always be that way. So all I do is try to work within a system that is always going to be that way. I have no problem bucking or fighting the system, but Im a realist at times, because as of now your not going to beat the system often. Ive fought the court systems more than once when I was wrongly prosecuted, Ive fought big corperations personally and with the help of my elected officials, Ive fought state goverment and you know sometimes I have won, many times. Ive also lost and had to call it a draw. I may not read & do research, but Ive been through a lot in my life, more than many and I have learned from life. This is why I feel for less fortunate in this country, because I very well could be one of them.

I would love a 3rd & 4th political party as strong as the top 2 and I think someday we might have a viable 3rd & 4th party, I dont know about that being in my life time but I think it will happen

Thats why I say labels dont work for the most part. My views and many peoples views can change often as I get older and raise my children run my home & business things and views are always changing.

I also agree with some of the stuff you have said, Imagine that

JL:USA:

[PLD 14]

no labels were used here in the process of making a post.

True. But you spoke in only very vauge generalities. Your whole post said only:

- Devisiveness is bad. Fox is devisive.

- Gas prices rise and fall with supply and demand. Oil companies suspected of taking part.

- Our equipment runs on oil and I see no viable alternative.

Now, if you start being specific about who is responsible, what they did, who should fix it, how to should fix it and you will start using labels. Lots of 'em. Democrats, Republicans, lobbyists, executives, labor, consumers, environmentalists. All labels.

Labels serve a purpose. John is a [label removed], I am a libertarian. You are a Northerner, I am a Southerner. In just a few words I have saved volumes of typing and established a baseline for further conversation. For example, John is *probably* fond of Clinton, I am not. You drink unsweetened tea, I find it a horrible waste of good tea. I wash roofs/decks in December and January, you do not.

Life without labels is just another facet of this disgusting attempt to be politically correct and water down life so that no one is offended anywhere, at any time. Sometimes you NEED to remove your head from the sand and take sides.

conduct themselves with respect and courtesy towards each other and keep the conversations productive.

As much as you (or any mod) might like it to be that way, courtesy and productivity are not always compatible. Particularly in politics and business. When people are discussing ideas where one's actions/voice/vote directly affects my life/family/wallet they become quite empassioned. Or at least they should. And it takes place everywhere from the living room to the boardroom. As an example, I would site our own congress. More than one round of fisticuffs has taken place on the house floor. In recent years, Senator John Glenn decked a constituent on the street. I'm certainly not suggesting that we settle this out back at the next PWNA convention. However, you cannot want people to be empassioned about important issues and then be surprised when they are.

We are a community of people discussing the items of relevance to our trade here.

[...]

Politics does not give answers by any stretch but misleads or puts off by unscrupulous contrivances in order to manipulate others.

[...]

That is not what TGS is about.

Ummm... I though this thread was in "The Clubhouse". As in, "Kick back and hang out at The Club House. Tell tall tales, share your stories, run your mouth" Sounds like the perfect place to discuss politics. If that's not the case, please say so and I'll not involve myself in future discussions of politics.

How else can we power our equipment?

You are being terribly (and intentionally, I believe) obtuse. Your total monthy fuel bill INCLUDES your office, your home, and other things that DO NOT consume petrofuels. If that total is say $2000/mo and you cut those bills to $1000 a month via alternative fuel methods, you have significantly affected your fuel bill. You have significantly reduced the impact rising fuel prices have on you. AND, you have reduced demand (remember supply & demand?).

Due to environmental and hazardous natures, we are forbidden to produce it ourselves.

Untrue. You are *not* prohibited from manufacturing alternative fuels or employing alternative fuel technology. It is not only legal, but the big producers are required by law to buy any excesses you produce from you at retail prices.

I productively pose the question to all here...how do you contend with the anticipated peak of the prices you will be paying?

First, by inserting productively you have insinuated that all non-traditional methods are unproductive to discuss. That is simply not the case. However, if that is the frame of reference you choose to bind yourself into, then you are right, you have no options, you are just screwed.

oil companies support special interests and fund the government in ways I will not discuss publicly

Are you serious?!? Either you have a special inside connection that makes you privvy to highly confidential information (which I do not believe for a second), or you believe that posting here will somehow cause the black helicopter guys to come looking for you (which I find laughable).

Yes, oil companies support ANYONE (lobbyists and SIG's included) who will help increase their profits. It's what businesses do. And yes, politicians take "perks" to make stuff happen, it's what politicians do. But the oil companies, the builderburgers, and the tri-lateral commission are not sitting around trying to find a way to screw the world's gas users.

[Jeff 232]

Personally, I am a libertarian [note:label self imposed]. I am one of those bums who wants govt OUT of our socio-economic lives.

I dont blame you for wanting Gov out, I just dont see it happening anytime soon. As for Libertarian I know very little about the party. Not to be offensive wasnt there some guy some years ago that was kind of nutty or extreme that was in the lib party, Lydon Larosse (sp)or something like that I remember seeing stuff about him years ago, dont remember much. You know who I'm talking about or was he in a different party.

As for libertarian party I'm sure some think thats Ultra something

socio-economic. I learn something every day. Ive heard it and know what it means but now I know how to spell it THANKS!

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Philip...

If Rod and I are being vague, it is because we don't want to get involved in this discussion any more than either of us has.

Our stand in this thread, is to clearly communicate the requirement of not calling names, bashing, flaming or the like. Other than that, you are right when you say we are only willing to discuss but so much here.

Enjoy the thread. :)

Beth

[PLD 14]

As far as labeling someone a fascist, while the users definition is partially correct it is a very inflammatory term that, in my opinion, is used in poor judgment.

That's your opinion, I disagree. If you will look back I was very clear that the context in which it was being used (and the thread as a whole) was economic. And government control (but not ownership) of the means of production is a premise of a fascist government. Even in the websters entry you posted (1 of 4 under fascism), you find the following.

- severe economic regimentation

- centralized autocratic government

- exalts nation above the individual

And suspending private property rights and taking control of a businesses profits for the benefit of the masses fits perfectly.

Furthermore, socialism has a generic term to describe it. So, if I had used the term Nazi or Stalinista describe a socialist position, that would be inflamatory and unneccessary. Fascism, however, is the generic term. It's been used MUCH to frequently as a derisive term for those on the political right (quite opposite Jeff's politics I might add), but that does not make the term itself a negative.

That is, unless one is a member of the politically correct crowd who believes that we should avoid all references that may possibly offend someone. For those people, I retract my statement. Jeff's polotical position is not a [label removed] one. Jeff is just "an adherent of the economic philosophy that government in intervention in the managenement of private commerical enterprises is not only a legitimate purpose of government but should be encouraged whenever those enterprises are not being sensitive to the needs of Americans lying in the lower middle bands of the socio economic spectrum".

I'll search and replace those previous posts right away... NOT!

[Jeff 232]

See Philip, you post responding to Rods is offensive, you do put people down whether you know it or not. I just thought it was me because of my views

I know your a smart man, but just to let you know you can be very rude, offensive and just a know it all and Ive found in my life that smart people are like that and they dont even know it. You may know it already I dont know?

Do you use alternitive sources of energy in everything in your life and what are they or are you just telling us who complain about gas prices our options?

[PLD 14]

I dont blame you for wanting Gov out, I just dont see it happening anytime soon. As for Libertarian I know very little about the party. Not to be offensive wasnt there some guy some years ago that was kind of nutty or extreme that was in the lib party, Lydon Larosse (sp)or something like that I remember seeing stuff about him years ago, dont remember much. You know who I'm talking about or was he in a different party.

As for libertarian party I'm sure some think thats Ultra something

socio-economic. I learn something every day. Ive heard it and know what it means but now I know how to spell it THANKS!

Ultra laze faire! And sadly, the Libertarians are haunted by nuts/wackos/loosers who want to hang onto our more essoteric positions like drug legalization. That's why they have not yet been a viable 3rd party (albiet the biggest)

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Anyone seen any good movies lately?

Beth

[Mike Williamson 198]

Anyone seen any good movies lately?

Beth

Narnia!!!! Wow what a movie, especially watching it from a Christian perspective.

Saw Kong last night...It was excellent in the effects area, though the acting kinda sucked. It was a bit too long, and of course, we all know the story so there weren't any real surprises. Definitely worth watching for the CGI tho.

[Mountain View 14]

Saw "God of War" on DVD. One of the better ones I've seen lately.

[Jeff 232]

Anyone seen any good movies lately?

Beth

The Wild with my son Joshua, wife & mother it was cute, saw it last weekend

And let me tell you about popcorn prices LOL

But I got them good I had them put butter(oil) on the popcorn at every inch interval, Love that oil, is that an alternative energy ?

But I sneaked in my own candy

JL

[Jeff 232]

Ultra laze faire! And sadly, the Libertarians are haunted by nuts/wackos/loosers who want to hang onto our more essoteric positions like drug legalization. That's why they have not yet been a viable 3rd party (albiet the biggest)

Dont label your self, your not a loser!!!!

As for fascist now that I see the definitions Yup thats me defiinitly LOL

JL

[Mike Williamson 198]

This is why I feel for less fortunate in this country, because I very well could be one of them.

Define "less fortunate". Are you referring to those who make less money, have less things, etc? If so, those aren't "less fortunate". They are, for the most part, simply living the way they wish to live. They continue to do the things that make them poor, so they remain poor.

[Mountain View 14]

Furthermore, socialism has a generic term to describe it. So, if I had used the term Nazi or Stalinista describe a socialist position, that would be inflamatory and unneccessary.

Nazi's were a fascist party if my memory serves me correctly.

[Mike Williamson 198]

Saw "God of War" on DVD. One of the better ones I've seen lately.

I didn't care for it. A bit too left leaning, anti-gun for me.

[Mountain View 14]

Has anyone checked into small bio-diesel units? I saw one that looked like it could fit into the corner of your garage. I wonder how much they can make, what the cost is, what kind of waste is left over, etc. I smell a project coming on.....or, maybe that's just bio-diesel fumes.