Gas prices

[Jeff 232]

Hear we go again gas prices are going up & up. What a PITA, call or email your elected officials and tell them youu want lower prices, if enough people complain to our elected officials, the prices usually come down. Tell them you'll vote this upcoming election.

Its all a game.

I just saw that the head of Exxon is retiring this month or year and his retirment package is $ 450,000,000 Thats right 450 Million and he made $52 million last year.

Tell me they arent taking advantage of us. capitalism is fine but this is ridiculous. Call your congressman & reps and tell them their jobs are on the line

www.senate.gov or www.house.gov you can find your reps & congressmen and email or call them

JL

[Jeff 232]

Jeff, my brother in arms, my friend, my Grime scene buddy, my lendor of great ideas, my ever so positive poster that all love on this forum. I have been biting my lip until your last statement.

My girlfriend's family have been politicians for over 30 years in Texas.

For the decade that I have known them and seen them in action I can honestly say that not all are crooked. They are very honest people and work very hard FOR THE PEOPLE. Even though they are in Texas, they deal with Washington on a regular basis to help the people, that includes you and me ( even though you are not in Texas) alot of what they do affects all of us.

Crooked......... not all. You are doing what you feel needs to be done by contacting your local and Natl. Gov't. Plus that is what they want us to do anyway. How else would they know what the people's concerns are.

I am with ya bro, except that all are crooked....... It's just not true.

I nominate Stephan Hawking as our next Pres. He'll get us out of this mess.

Dude it was a general comment thats all and it was meant for most of the national politicians and I know they arent all crooks. But I think we all know that things need some changing.

I love a good politician and even more a true honest politician. I held signs went to many rallies in my day and I did it not because I had nothing to do, I care about this country.

Hell I held signs in the freezing cold for Ross Perot until he started sounding a little to crazy for me.

Get your wifes family in the white house I'll vote for them for 2 reasons, you know their honest and 2nd I can say I sort of know them

Have a great one!!

JL

[Adrian 155]

plus we can get a job cleaning the White House. lol.

Ross perot........... I don't know if you are old enough to remember Carter

and the Americans in Iran hostages situation. ( no offense intended on your age I promise). But Carter didn't handle that one to well. Little does the public know that H. Ross perot had his own employees ( covert swat team) and his own money, and his own equipment, helicopters and arms to free the hostages who were held for almost 1 year ( not positive on the tenure).

Carter was a little too patient to suit me in that one. Perot came through for the country. As a President though, I think Perot would have been a little out of his element.

I know it was a general comment on your part & like I said earlier I try to stay away from the politics dept. because as long as I can remember, no one has ever agreed on anything and the debates are decades old.

I'm a rocker, not a knocker. The statement just was a little close minded and kinda hit close to home. I do not understand all the political issues, but I have spoken and listened many times to my future in-laws, and only see good from them. Plus I really appreciate that they are very partial to self employment and small business. Was not taking any shots at you in any form, just felt I had to raise my antlers on that one and say HEY.... hang on a sec.

as far as pulling the thread off of the forum, no way man, this is a great thread. You might have actually surpassed Shane's Bleeeeeech vs. per carb thread. No angst or anger at you at all bro. Your my hero and a great source of inspiration and positive business influence.

I still think Hawking should be the next Pres. or dare I say Nader.

Or maybe even Bill Nye the science guy. Or Cindy Crawford......sorry,jk.

fight the good fight man. We all love what you impart on this forum.

David Gilmour tonight on Leno show.

PEACE THROUGH SONIC DISTORTION

[Jeff 232]

plus we can get a job cleaning the White House. lol.

Ross perot........... I don't know if you are old enough to remember Carter

and the Americans in Iran hostages situation. ( no offense intended on your age I promise). But Carter didn't handle that one to well. Little does the public know that H. Ross perot had his own employees ( covert swat team) and his own money, and his own equipment, helicopters and arms to free the hostages who were held for almost 1 year ( not positive on the tenure).

Carter was a little too patient to suit me in that one. Perot came through for the country. As a President though, I think Perot would have been a little out of his element.

I know it was a general comment on your part & like I said earlier I try to stay away from the politics dept. because as long as I can remember, no one has ever agreed on anything and the debates are decades old.

I'm a rocker, not a knocker. The statement just was a little close minded and kinda hit close to home. I do not understand all the political issues, but I have spoken and listened many times to my future in-laws, and only see good from them. Plus I really appreciate that they are very partial to self employment and small business. Was not taking any shots at you in any form, just felt I had to raise my antlers on that one and say HEY.... hang on a sec.

as far as pulling the thread off of the forum, no way man, this is a great thread. You might have actually surpassed Shane's Bleeeeeech vs. per carb thread. No angst or anger at you at all bro. Your my hero and a great source of inspiration and positive business influence.

I still think Hawking should be the next Pres. or dare I say Nader.

Or maybe even Bill Nye the science guy. Or Cindy Crawford......sorry,jk.

fight the good fight man. We all love what you impart on this forum.

David Gilmour tonight on Leno show.

PEACE THROUGH SONIC DISTORTION

Carter was a good man just not a good president

I know the Perot story thats why I campaigned for him, I still have the video of me at a rally in Boston. The big sucking sound was one of his favorite comments, he used to make me laugh and I think he cared, but then he got a little off the wall

I used to love Cindy Crawford to old for me now, I like them younger

I dont know who Id want for prez now, no one really excites me. I hope its someone we dont hear of all the time a new face who we can trust in these crazy times would be nice

JL

Thanks for the compliments and do enjoy this board

[Chappy 138]

Carter may be a good man but he was a terrible president.

Jeff, your looking at this issue emotionally, not logically. Phillip, Mike and others have thought through the logic of this issue. What you read in the paper isnt necessarily true, its what the editor wanted you to read, and most papers lean very far to the left (usually meaning anti-capitalist, definitely anti-republican/conservative.) And you damn sure cant take anything on the networks as gospel, (including the so-called conservative station FOX News.)

There are many a crooked politition, but the vast majority are not. You only read about the crooked ones. Only the CEOs of the big companies get the millions, and the crooked ones will definitely show up in the news. Again the vast majority are honest, damn hard working folks, who take care of their business, their employees and stockholders.

As for congress, Im so ticked off at the republicans, I could spit. But, that being said, the pressure to be re-elected is immense and they, like us if we could put ourselves in their positions, follow the money. It doesnt mean their dishonest, just politicians.

as said above, Jeff, I respect and even envy some of the business success youve had. and you most definitely have a right to your opinion, but dont get angry because others are picking it apart. We feel passionately about this. and you know, I cant talk about this stuff with my wife, and better not let any customer know what I believe. This is the only place I can come to hear others viewpoints, and let mine be known. And since we're like minded in our profession, I love it.

Plus you started this thread. Good show.

[Mike Williamson 198]

Hey Beth & Rod I started this thread can you get rid of it for me. Its getting nasty and not informative at all.

Oh it is not, stop being so sensitive. So Phillip called you a fascist. Either ignore his posts altogether, or deal with the meat of his comments, but stop just focusing on the two or three things he said that you find a bit insensitive.

I'd rather the thread NOT be deleted...there is a LOT of great information here, and not any real nastiness...Just a few very direct and to the point comments. You may have started this thread, but there are several of us who have taken the time to post some fairly involved and time consuming posts!

Chill, dude!!

[Mike Williamson 198]

I know the Perot story thats why I campaigned for him, I still have the video of me at a rally in Boston. The big sucking sound was one of his favorite comments, he used to make me laugh and I think he cared, but then he got a little off the wall

You do know that Perot wanted to institute something like a $5.00/gallon national gas tax?

[Jeff 232]

You do know that Perot wanted to institute something like a $5.00/gallon national gas tax?

Mike, I'm a pretty smart guy, not always great at articulating my views as well a phil & maybe you. I try to keep up on current events and as current events go I really truely don't like a lot I see going on. As for GW I know you like and respect him, I dont and havent since he started running for Prez, there has always been something or things I just dont trust about him, I said it before he was elected and I say it now. Whether its a simple as his annoying laugh, his walk or as big as what I think about him & Iraq or how I think and is being proven that he has lied to us. That my opinion of him

As for Phil he did exaggerate many of my not so clear points and he did get insulting, Its not being sensistive as much as being mad and I was mad at some of phils comments and the way he said them to me. Not just the Be a man statement. I dont believe goverment should be involved as much as they are, but the plain truth of it is, that it is. We provide welfare for half the countries in the wrld why not our own

I would vote for a democrat, repubulican, a boogey man if I feel it would be best for the country, I have a lot of liberal "fascist" views but I voted for Reagan and I didnt like a lot of his views but many I did

I think you blindly supporting Bush is weird but I dont tell you your wrong or a jerk for doing it

Like i said I cant articulate as well as other have, but theres some things wrong nowadays and I think some of it has to do with our higher ups and the outsourcing that Corps are doing for profit reasons only. You can make great profits and try to help others I just dont see it happening like I would

Theres a reason many of my post are so long, I cant always get right to the point

I got to go time to read some Sesame Street to Josh he's tugging on my arm

JL

[squirtgun 122]

HOLY COW!!!!!

I can't believe this horse is still being beat.

[Mike Williamson 198]

I think you blindly supporting Bush is weird but I dont tell you your wrong or a jerk for doing it

I support some of what Bush does, other stuff I don't. I certainly don't "blindly support" him, or anyone else. My reasons for supporting him in the areas I do are not because I'm a Republican (I'm not) or because he's the President or any reason other than I agree with him in those areas.

However things have been said, no one here has intended anything to be offensive or hurtful.

[PLD 14]

As for Phil he [..] did get insulting

I did? I think the only personal attacks that have been lobbed here were when you called me an ahole. That's your opinion, and I can see why you might feel that way. No skin off my back.

As for fascist, that is a political label. And while you may like to consider yourself a liberal, the views you have posted here fit the textbook definition of fascism (economically, at least). If that handle bothers you, only you have the power to change it. I can neither change your views, or the definition.

As for the "be a man" statement; It was not intended as a challenge to your manhood. As you said earlier, I don't even know you outside this board. "be a man" was said in the context of "stand up take it like a man". If anyone had a right to be offended, it was Celeste, Pam, et.al. as is shows an obvious gender bias. If it bothered you, I can only offer that this thread has gotten way too far under your skin and hypersensitized you to otherwise innocuous comments.

We provide welfare for half the countries in the wrld why not our own

Because it is wrong. Two wrongs do not make a right. If someone elects to be chariable, good of them. Please do it with your own money and leave mine alone.

I would vote for a democrat, repubulican, a boogey man if I feel it would be best for the country

I sense that of you. But the views you have espoused are not good for the country. In the short term, they are good for the individual. In the long term, they are disasterous for the health of the country.

I have a lot of liberal "fascist" views but I voted for Reagan and I didnt like a lot of his views but many I did

Being a liberal does not make you a fascist. And I don't call liberals fascists as a way of denegrating their positions. Although liberals and I disagree on ideaology, there is nothing wrong with being a liberal. As someone stated earlier, balance is a good thing.

That said, government control of private companies is not a liberal idea, it's a fascist idea. And while conservative, liberal, and moderate are have their rightful places in the Amercian body politic, fascism, communism, etc do not. Fascism, communism, etc are contradictory with what makes America successful and great.

theres some things wrong nowadays and I think some of it has to do with our higher ups and the outsourcing that Corps are doing for profit reasons only.

Having been in the "inner circle" of three startup companies, I tend to agree. The corporations of today tend to see wider margins and lower operating costs as the only means of increasing revenue. Customer loyalty, and employee loyalty/productivity as a means of solid stable growth are far too intangible for the present crop of ADHD executives. Also, by going public too soon they have enslaved themselves to the quarterly earnings report. The end result is a company that pursues short term gains at any cost while completely ignoring long term corporate health. And much like a athelete living on steroids and speed, they swoop in, set amazing records, and burn out like a shooting star. It's definitely not a good thing for them or a capitalist economy.

BUT, it's also not the place for goverment to fix it with regulation.

[Jeff 232]

I got a real question for anybody

WHO would you like to see run for President in 2008 and why.

Also who do you think will run for president. Now lets all just have fun with this post

I sort of like

Joe Biden

John Mccain (sp)

I'm looking for someone not known that well now that comes out and impresses me

I hope we have good choices come 2008

Now who do I think is going to run

McCain, has a chance this time, good guy but I dont know if he'll go all the way

Biden - I like him sometimes he seems true, except for his tan

Hillary - everybodies favorate LOL If she wins primary, republicans will have the white house

Rudy - slight chance but republicans like him & hate him

Mitt Romney - Like what he's trying on health care

Jeb Bush, I think he has a chance if he runs. Name recognition

Nader - not a chance in hell, like to see what the heck would go on if he was elected

Kerry - not in this life time

I'll think of more it could be interesting 2007 & 08

Lets get ready to rumble

[Jeff 232]

I did? I think the only personal attacks that have been lobbed here were when you called me an ahole. That's your opinion, and I can see why you might feel that way. No skin off my back.

As for fascist, that is a political label. And while you may like to consider yourself a liberal, the views you have posted here fit the textbook definition of fascism (economically, at least). If that handle bothers you, only you have the power to change it. I can neither change your views, or the definition.

As for the "be a man" statement; It was not intended as a challenge to your manhood. As you said earlier, I don't even know you outside this board. "be a man" was said in the context of "stand up take it like a man". If anyone had a right to be offended, it was Celeste, Pam, et.al. as is shows an obvious gender bias. If it bothered you, I can only offer that this thread has gotten way too far under your skin and hypersensitized you to otherwise innocuous comments.

Because it is wrong. Two wrongs do not make a right. If someone elects to be chariable, good of them. Please do it with your own money and leave mine alone.

I sense that of you. But the views you have espoused are not good for the country. In the short term, they are good for the individual. In the long term, they are disasterous for the health of the country.

Being a liberal does not make you a fascist. And I don't call liberals fascists as a way of denegrating their positions. Although liberals and I disagree on ideaology, there is nothing wrong with being a liberal. As someone stated earlier, balance is a good thing.

That said, government control of private companies is not a liberal idea, it's a fascist idea. And while conservative, liberal, and moderate are have their rightful places in the Amercian body politic, fascism, communism, etc do not. Fascism, communism, etc are contradictory with what makes America successful and great.

Having been in the "inner circle" of three startup companies, I tend to agree. The corporations of today tend to see wider margins and lower operating costs as the only means of increasing revenue. Customer loyalty, and employee loyalty/productivity as a means of solid stable growth are far too intangible for the present crop of ADHD executives. Also, by going public too soon they have enslaved themselves to the quarterly earnings report. The end result is a company that pursues short term gains at any cost while completely ignoring long term corporate health. And much like a athelete living on steroids and speed, they swoop in, set amazing records, and burn out like a shooting star. It's definitely not a good thing for them or a capitalist economy.

BUT, it's also not the place for goverment to fix it with regulation.

OK

JL

[Jeff 232]

Philip, Your cool and you know your views well, but you really categorized me wrong. why I say the things I do about Corp & Politicians is because i just dont remember a time quite like these times the past 5 - 10+ years I just dont like the feel of things

I've always enjoyed you & your posts on TGS

Maybe I shouldnt have said Ahole.... but Butthole would of been more appropriate LOL

Hope all is good

JL

[PLD 14]

This may be of interest to everyone:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_election,_2008

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_election,_2008#Speculated_Candidates

Living or dead: Ronald Regan, followed by Ayn Rand.

Living only: Condeleeza Rice.

Please no: Hillary. She's a dead horse. The dems need to pull their head out of the ultra-liberal sandbox and find a candidate that can win. Only a democratic victory will offer the republicans some resistance and force them to stop gorging at the budgetary trough.

[PLD 14]

I've always enjoyed you & your posts on TGS

Maybe I shouldnt have said Ahole.... but Butthole would of been more appropriate LOL

Ditto for me. I aspire for my company to be a succesful as yours. I'm serious about that too, it's not just sweet and gooey make up talk.

As for what kind of sphincter I am, I'll leave that for you to decide. All I can say is, if the shoe fits... :)

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Ok....

We have been out working, missed this thread completely till we were tipped off that it was getting out of line.

Chill out guys. It is a heated subject, and these are opinions and personal feelings coming out. We don't want to shut the thread, but you all know how we feel about personal attacks and name calling.

Stop, chill, take a deep breath....

Beth

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

If everyone in the US put the same amount of passion and energy into bringing these kinds of issues to the politicians as is being exhibited here, the country would be a better place as a result of it.

Keep in mind as you post that all other posters should be addressed with respect and courtesy. No labeling or name calling. It just isn't acceptable by anyone.

Thank you.

Rod!~

[newlook 265]

Interesting topic as the price of gas continues to plague us out here in Calif.

Interesting thoughts and views from some of our TGS heavy hitters.

Certainly can see the passion in this dialogue and often times it is difficult to convey what you really want to say by typing it out. Politics are always a "hot" button in any arena and the TGS is no different.

I tend to treat these dialogues as I would treat a problem customer ~ listen to all what is said and try to be diplomatic as much as possible with my response.

[jgoral76 14]

i THINK WE ALL NEED TO AGREE TO DISAGREE ON THIS SUBJECT BECAUSE WE ALL HAVE OPINIONS ABOUT THIS.

[Crownroyal 14]

I'd really like to see a women run the White House my $.02.

Dan

Dagan

NN VA

[Mike Williamson 198]

I'd really like to see a women run the White House my $.02.

We had that for the last 8 years of the 90s! I wasn't impressed.

The only woman I can think of that I'd even be remotely comfortable with in the white house is Condi Rice, but I can't see her having a chance...she's to closely tied with Bush. Then again, being a black woman she might get a decent portion of the female and the black vote. Who knows...I doubt she'll run.

How about Jeb? :eek:

[Adrian 155]

Cindy Crawford for prez.

[PLD 14]

Don't get so excited. This thread self moderated about 2 pages ago....

As for labels, you can't have a political discussion of any depth without labels. Labels serve to identify your own position and that of others without pages and pages of repeated rhetoric. I am a libertarian, Mike is a conservative, Jeff is an ultra liberal with fascist tendancies. That says a tremendous amount in just a few words.

As for name calling, I don't think it got out of line at all. One person hung a label on me that was colorful, descriptive, and probably justified. If the caller and the call-ee both agree that the name/label is appropriate, where in lies the problem? For another example, you guys up there might not take to kindly to being called a redneck, but there are a good number of people down here who wear it as a badge of honor...

[PLD 14]

How about Jeb?

I agree about Condi. Jeb's a no-go because of the Florida election issues.

[StainlessDeal 16]

Having been in the "inner circle" of three startup companies, I tend to agree. The corporations of today tend to see wider margins and lower operating costs as the only means of increasing revenue. Customer loyalty, and employee loyalty/productivity as a means of solid stable growth are far too intangible for the present crop of ADHD executives. Also, by going public too soon they have enslaved themselves to the quarterly earnings report. The end result is a company that pursues short term gains at any cost while completely ignoring long term corporate health. And much like a athelete living on steroids and speed, they swoop in, set amazing records, and burn out like a shooting star. It's definitely not a good thing for them or a capitalist economy.

The paragraph posted above is one of the best-written and most insightful that I have seen on these boards since I first encountered this medium. This is a point I often don't try to even make, because from me it sounds a little dogmatic and even a bit nostalgic. Thanks, Philip.

Philip, we really should go bowling together sometime.;)

This thread is a gut-wrenching hell to read, but it winds up reaffirming my admiration for the principals posting: You never cease to amaze me with your humanity, TGS. I love this community, if this was a television show, people wouldn't believe that real people talk this way.

Where else would you catch a conservative and a liberal and an (bless me they still exist) Ayn Rand libertarian arguing semantics and election prospects as relates to gas prices, corporate profits and corporate officer compensation?

Only TGS.

PS. Adrian, how's the x-jet? 420 ;)