strange encounter with competition

[DustinC 64]

I was aproached by one of my competitors today from the other side of town. He started asking me specific questions such as how long have I been in business, where do I get my signs,shirts,chemicals.what do I use for roofs.how do I get oxidaton off.what do I charge,and more.I played dumb and he offered suppliers and advice.I politely cut the conversation short and He gave me his card with a picture of his rig on the back(nicer than mine)and said call me.I find this to be very strange. He was a partimer, I guess he likes it that way.I had to share.weird

[jbruno 14]

I find that NOT wierd. He basically was doing the same thing we do hear but in person. Don't look at it as something wierd, or read into it. He may have been lining you up for some jobs he couldn't handle, or big jobs he figured you could help him with.

I for one am trying to hook up with Tom Defrancesco from this board so I can help him start out his residential business nearby me. Sure it will be "competition" but as long as he isn't a Hack or a lowballer, It helps the industry and myself in the long run. And No Tom won't be a hack, because I'll learn him the right way! LOL

[mas3372 14]

I had a similar instance with my biggest competitor who has been doing it for 10 years and me just on my first year. He stopped by when he saw me doing a house. Sized up my rig and complimented my work. I keep all my chems in blank container as I do not want homeowners to try to order it and do it themselves. This made him ask what I use to get such great results and I was hones with him and told him I keep that to me and he was understanding. Long story short, I actually taught a 10 year vet on downstreaming and a few other timesavers I have learned.

3 months later, he has given me many referrals and in exchange I refer him to people for sealcoating since he does this as well and it works out great.

[DustinC 64]

I guess you could look at it that way.I owe almost everything to the old pros on these boards.However I recently went full time this year and like I said this guy is part time.When I was a employee there was a guy there who pressure washed on the side for ridiculously low prices. When I asked him why he did this his reply was "I have a job".and "They always come back"This is the kind of lowballer that will never go out of business because he "has a job". He made me so mad I did'nt even bother telling him how much I made that weekend.back on topic. I would hate to be kicking myself down the road when I find out my competition underbid me,because this is his part time gig.(I'm not trying to generalize or bash part timers)It also didn't help that this all went down in the parking lot of a new commercial customer of mine.I consider myself to still be in the start up phase trying to grow my biz and support my family.Sharing info with my local competition does not seem like a good idea to me.or like you said maybe he just wants help with a huge job.lol

[John Doherty 126]

I'm with James and Mike on this one. Of course there are some things you keep quiet about like prices. Otherwise what do you really have to worry about? You have much more to gain than lose, you said he was already offering advice, isn't that good?

I always used to talk to my competition, and used most of them as subs, worked out real well for all of us. I guess you really need to ask yourself if you have some really big secret your afraid you'll give away, if not I'd call him.

At 3:00 on a Sunday afternoon you blow a hose and don't have a spare, who you gonna call? We all need to try and stick together, there's enough money out there.

JD

[Integrity Curb Appeal 64]

I must agree with these guys. I am new and a part timer. I have spoken with a seasoned cleaner locally and he is a member of this board as well. I got a call once when I was outta town about a big house from a realtor friend of mine and immedietly called him. The thing is, I read a post on here about if people consider this a true industry or profession. Well I know it is. Why? Were making money. But that statement came from the publics view, which tells me it is an industry that is in its infancy. As we all work together and create consumer awareness we will create a field that every homeowner/business owner/ property manager believes is a necessity. Together we create synergy for this industry. People used to think that they had to cut their own grass, change their own oil, and cook their own dinner. Take a look now. Those are quite easy on the physical work and time to do spectrums. What we do is not simple and fast without having both the expertise and equipment. What person will spend that much time and money to do it correctly specially if someone just wants to maintain their own home.

That relationship could likely create opportunities for the both of you.

just my .02

Scott

[jbruno 14]

I know you're not bashing Part-timers, and I am a PTimer. But yes in the BEGINNING, I had noone teaching me about pricing. So I used to think "if I make $300 today on 2 small house washes, I'll be happy" At the time it worked because I had no truck payment, and my equipment only cost me 2K. But the more I read boards like this and the bigger my expenses became, the higher my price went. Not ridiculous high, but defenitely miles ahead of the lowballers. But the other thing is that the market isn't saturated by tons of guy doing powerwashing.

Anybody that starts out around here (NY) and wants to learn the right way will get my help. I will tell them what chems to use, how to clean stuff, stain and I'll even let them know what my price ranges are, because I want them to realize that they can do a good job, with good materials, and get paid REALLY WELL, thus eliminating a lowballer. If they take the lowball route than I'll blow them out of the water with past performance, and salesmanship, as well as the fact that i won't take the shortcuts!

[DustinC 64]

Thanks for the feedback.I like helping people and my first instinct was to tell him everything I know.Which has taken me months to learn from others who learned over decades.This makes me feel kind of like a hypocrite and I'm probably underqualified in giving my opinion.After our short talk and his 20 questions I know I could have helped him tons .I'm new to the world of business ownership but I fail to see how helping someone,clean faster and cut their costs etc. who is after the same market as me and in the same neighborhoods as a good business practice.I'm all for raising the bar for our industry I just want to be around for it.maybe if I was already a success I would feel differently.In my opinion quality work comes down to the individual. It's more about pride than money for some. Plenty of lowballers do quality work.am I alone in this? does everyone in the pw biz jump at the chance to help local competitors?eventually ,most likely already my local comp will discover the power of the internet that will lead them to this site and post CONGRATULATIONS! its a great resource full of great people.

[Ron Musgraves 240]

I know you're not bashing Part-timers, and I am a PTimer. But yes in the BEGINNING, I had noone teaching me about pricing. So I used to think "if I make $300 today on 2 small house washes, I'll be happy" At the time it worked because I had no truck payment, and my equipment only cost me 2K. But the more I read boards like this and the bigger my expenses became, the higher my price went. Not ridiculous high, but defenitely miles ahead of the lowballers. But the other thing is that the market isn't saturated by tons of guy doing powerwashing.

Anybody that starts out around here (NY) and wants to learn the right way will get my help. I will tell them what chems to use, how to clean stuff, stain and I'll even let them know what my price ranges are, because I want them to realize that they can do a good job, with good materials, and get paid REALLY WELL, thus eliminating a lowballer. If they take the lowball route than I'll blow them out of the water with past performance, and salesmanship, as well as the fact that i won't take the shortcuts!

Bruno, thats the best post i have ever seen, hats off

[DustinC 64]

An old pro has spoken. I stand corrected.

[DustinC 64]

I've been thinking some more.Why wait until someone wants to learn the right way. Lots of people complain when The answer is right in front of us.Think about it. If every member of tgs and other pw forums had a organized event where we take the time to contact all the washers in our areas with some info and all the links to these great forums explaining how we can raise the bar and elevate our industry. We could really make a significant impact.I think whether or not this is a good idea would make for a interesting blind poll.I never try to hide the fact that I'm a newbie.I have a great deal of respect for everyone who has paved the way for this industry and hope I'm not coming across as a smart azz.I'm just trying to provoke thought.This will probably be another post I regret. Oh well.

[jbruno 14]

Bruno, thats the best post i have ever seen, hats off

Thanks Ron. Mostly I was influenced by Mr. Rowlett and a few other people I have met through these boards. Of all the things I have learned from these people I think the MOST helpful things are the ones that have taught me how to run my business, and how to be an 'ambassador' of powerwashing. (wow that was corny!LOL)

Because Powerwashing is so new to my area, I also want to the consumer to be educated in what Power Washing really entails. I would say that 80% of my business this year was new business, but probably 50% was becasue of recomendations...

[PressurePros 249]

This has actualy been a very good, thought provoking thread. I first read J. Bruno's post about setting up his competition and cringed. While I would never do that he has valid points. For me its a bit too much of a risk of the student surpassing the teacher but at the same time, there are so many ways to make money in this business he is insuring himself against a guy that has no clue about proper pricing and just wants to supplement his income and will end up driving the prices down for his entire market.

Part timers are never going to go away (I am referring to the guy who grosses $400 for a weekend by undercutting the full time companies). They may burn out and decide to move on. They may learn there is more to this business than just being a working stiff and paying your dues and go full time. In either event (and J Bruno's post about how he started out proves it) it is beneficial to show these guys the right way to do things. They may not all be malicious and out to steal your business thunder, they just may not know any better because no one ever told them what to charge.

My final feeling is this.. If someone complains that they cannot compete against part timers they have a couple of options. Close up shop.. Move on to a business that requires much more startup capital.. or, work with God has given you and take the high road and educate these guys.

[Mike Williamson 198]

I would hate to be kicking myself down the road when I find out my competition underbid me,because this is his part time gig.

Maybe things are different in other areas, but I rarely find myself bidding against anyone, even on many of the commercial gigs I get. I just don't worry about it. When I get the opportunity to talk to another washer in town, I'm very open about what I use, methods, pricing etc. As Bruno says, I'd much rather help a guy out and show him the right way to do things, and show him what he COULD be making, than have another guy out there charging low rates and doing crappy work. Many of these guys are doing the best they can, but their methods and chemicals (if they use any) are just not up to the task. Better to have another local friend in the business than someone who is out there giving all of us a bad name.

There's a friend of mine on these boards, Hugh Gibson, who has been working on getting into the business for quite a while, preparing for retirement from the Sheriff's Dept. He will be working in much the same areas as me, so essentially we'll be competing. I could refuse to help him, and let him figure it all out on his own, but I'd much rather work with him and have both of us out there raising the bar. We just finished building his trailer yesterday afternoon, and he helped me clean the University of Floriday Golf Course Clubhouse last night. Now we both have a friend in the business to call on for help with jobs, with bidding, etc etc. I know that with the information he's gotten here and on other boards, and with any help I can provide locally, he'll be out there doing fantastic work and getting paid well for it. And it sure made us look more professional and serious about the job when we pulled up with two awesome, professional looking rigs and knocked the work out!

There's a LOT of dirty stuff out there for all of us, and I'm just not worried about losing out to someone else just because I told them how to do it right.

[jbruno 14]

I'm glad to Hear that Hugh is up and running Mike!

I'm also glad to hear that I've inspired a few thoughts about this topic. But let me tell you 1 more thing that has been goiung through my mind. remember when I was 'getting' out and then I was back in?? Well someday I may sell this business, or just sell off the equipment and when and if that day comes, I don't want to leave my previous customers in the dark when I stop powerwashing. Eventually I will get a few raises in the fire dept. and maybe even promoted, and maybe by then I WON'T have to powerwash or maybe I'll be doing something else (yada yada yada!). And maybe by then the market will be flooded with powerwashers. And I'm not saying that i'm going to teach EVRYONE how to powerwash, but a select few will get my help if they want it. But there is SO much to be washed, that I haven't even scratched the surface.

So if I pass on my knowledge and feel confident that I can refer my past customers to someone else then I won't have any guilt when and if I close up shop.

[Mike Williamson 198]

I don't want to leave my previous customers in the dark when I stop powerwashing. .....So if I pass on my knowledge and feel confident that I can refer my past customers to someone else then I won't have any guilt when and if I close up shop.

If everyone thought about their customers this way, our industry would be light years ahead of where it is now. Too many look at the customer as simply a payday, and once the job is finished, who cares about them.

[jbruno 14]

Too many of my customers are friends, and many of my other customers are referrals from my friends. Maybe I'm different I don't know!

Plus, your customer list is proof that your business is worth something!

[Tom DeFrancesco 23]

I publicly want to thank Jim Bruno. He is going way above and beyond to teach and help me with my transformation from mobile detailer to a professional power washer. Right from the start when i first started posting I wrote that i was new in Washingtonville and did not want to step on any toes. He stepped right up and volunteered his services. Ken, you cannot always think that is going to happen. (Student surpass the teacher) There was a small group of detailers (about 5 of us ) that stuck together and constantly referred work to one another. It was a great system.

I could be sticking my neck out slightly also because he will know everything I have and can do and can easly talk a customer into not using me. I met Jimmy in person and talked numerous times on the phone. He is a genuine and sincere buisnessman as myself. I am sure he is quite capable of judging how a person is going to be.

The moral of this drawn out story, "Make a business friend not a business enemy."

[Celeste 341]

We are also huge proponents of educating your "competition". There really is no other way not to stay ahead if you're not all on the same page in the industry manual. The scary thing is, last September, we held a Round table here in NC - 31 folks attended, not including vendors from 3-4 states. Our company was the only company from our county (and yes, I picked up the phone and personally called every one listed in the phone book and went so far as to waltz into the Waffle House where another pwer was lunching - call him out in public to give him my card and invite to the event) NOT ONE showed - go figure. But anyway, in our quest to help raise the bar, we welcome any newbies near or far to learn from our experiences - this industry will never go anywhere if we all don't share. Those who DON'T get to know the others in their area are sticking their collective heads in the sand.

Celeste

[PressurePros 249]

Question: Is there a limit to what you will share with a local competitor?

I don't mind sharing marketing strategies and price tiering because I would love to see the PW business as a whole stay valued. What I am not willing to share are: My suppliers and general operational procedures that make PressurePros more "cookie cutter".

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Question: Is there a limit to what you will share with a local competitor?

Obviously: Price structure and employee wages.

Not so obvious: Area we service and full range of services we offer.

Not that one could not find these things out anyway. What bugs me is when competitors used to steal our proposal packets in order to do this. I guess the packet we left in a plastic door knob hanger was to difficult to get a quick peak into so they resorted to just taking it instead and we would get a call from the customer asking when we would be coming by after I had already been there and gone.

This is another reason why we insist on getting in front of our customers or we will provide proposals by mail or email.

Yeah, I am guilty of looking at competitors proposals left stuck in the door, but I never stooped to taking it to keep my competition from having a chance to be considered.To quote a favorite line from a movie "That's just mean!" What goes around comes around I always say.

Rod!~

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Had a local competitor call and hound me pretty badly for information that was of the sort no one gives out to competition....needless to say he didn't get it. I will help anyone, and there are plenty of ways to help and guide a person, but some things...I do not share.

I have approached local competitors many times and given them business cards and the URL to this site. If they choose to accept the olive branch, great. If not, oh well, they only hold themselves back.

Beth

:cup: no coffee was spilled while composing this post :cup:

[FCPWLLC 233]

I won't tell a competitor how to do a job faster or easier. I feel that will cause them to lower thier prices. I have shared that info with only a couple because I know that they already frequent the boards and know some of the tricks and who I believe will always sell on professionalism versus price.

[Rodney 14]

In my neck of the woods it is a little different. For one I have been able to meet local pressure washers thanks to various bbs sites such as The Grime Scene. I have become friends with three or four other pressure wahers some part time and some full time. We give work to each other and share chemicals. I have

been asked to help on large jobs and did work for one guy while he had surgery. These guys are not my competitors but alies. There is plenty of work for all of us. As far as part timers having cheaper prices that is not always so. I am having to watch my priceses due to a full time company that has three rigs and a crew of three or more english chalenged employees on each rig. There are some full timer companies one in my neighborhood that will not speak to me because they feel I am taking money out of their pocket. This is there loss not mine. Like the old saying goes keep your friends close and your competitors closer

[Mike Williamson 198]

In my neck of the woods it is a little different. For one I have been able to meet local pressure washers thanks to various bbs sites such as The Grime Scene. I have become friends with three or four other pressure wahers some part time and some full time. We give work to each other and share chemicals. I have

been asked to help on large jobs and did work for one guy while he had surgery. These guys are not my competitors but alies. There is plenty of work for all of us. As far as part timers having cheaper prices that is not always so. I am having to watch my priceses due to a full time company that has three rigs and a crew of three or more english chalenged employees on each rig. There are some full timer companies one in my neighborhood that will not speak to me because they feel I am taking money out of their pocket. This is there loss not mine. Like the old saying goes keep your friends close and your competitors closer

That's an excellent word for it, Allies!

As far as guys not talking to you, the problem is with their perspective, not yours. They could work WITH you and everyone benefits, instead they worry about bidding against you...hurts everyone, since they're likely bidding lower trying to beat your price. There's a couple guys like that here, but who cares...like you said, their problem, not mine. I'm not going to change them, so all I can do is avoid them. These are guys who've been in the business for years, and as Ken says, they own a job. They're just happy that they're making more than they were at their $8.00/hour job, and if they can clear $200.00-300.00 for a full day they think they're doing great. Let 'em have it. Residential is nice, but I'm finding more and more that the smaller commercial jobs pay much better...In the past two weeks I've done three commercial building cleanings, worked a total of 10 hours between all three, and billed $2000.00. The days of $50.00/hour are over for me. Somewhere around the end of least year I got sick of working all day on a job and thinking "Man, I'm only making $XXX on this thing". Now, I think the whole time "Man, I'm making $$$$ on this job! Wow!!!"