How would you guys hit this deck?

[fireandrain 39]

The typical suspect for a N. California redwood deck here. No presence of failing finish. Curious how you guys would deal with it. I'd wet it down, soak it with efc-38, 20 min. dwell, and rinse @ 800 p.s.i. Soak it again with citralic, and rinse.

Any other approaches?

[seymore 90]

I would strip it and brighten with oxalic.The stripper will clean the wood better than a precarb.

[squirtgun 122]

Shanes method will be good for restoring the deck,but mine will eliinat ethe need to restore forever.

The downside is you might be sought for arson charges afterwards..........lol

[fireandrain 39]

So you'd strip it rather than go with the precarb,eh? Makes sense, you think it would rinse off faster/cleaner? Im just new to caustics and feel a bit more secure working with the efc38 due to surrounding vegetaion... hmmm

[seymore 90]

Well you can pre wet the plants and also cover them with plastic for not long tho cuz they will burn.So pre wet post wet mailnly the blooming flowers cause hardy green plants shouldn't be a problem...just water ....water water...

[PressurePros 249]

EFC-38 is actually more of a stripper than a basic percarb. It will work well. As you get more experienced with wood, for efficiency purposes, downstreaming a stripper/cleaner like F-18 is much faster.

[fireandrain 39]

Quicker clean w/ f-18 over the efc38... Ive used the f18 before, stripping a nasty latex stain.. just nervous about using a caustic to clean.... guiess it would be faster though..

[PressurePros 249]

Its not about strength its about dilution. The same chemical (sodium hydroxide) in F-18 is in your toothpaste and dish liquid. Downstreaming dilutes at least 5:1 so what is coming out of the nozzle is marekdly reduced though, as with any chemical, you need to follow the precautions shane mentioned and keep everything wet down.

[seymore 90]

If you are worried about plants then use a shurflo to spray chems so your chems will be confined.The solution can be mixed weak so you won't hurt the plants as easy.

[bigchaz 157]

It seems like hyroxide will do a better job killing them old than a precarb, so its not only quicker working, but more effective to use a stripper like f-18.

Like ken said just dont use it full strength. You could downstream or do like shane and myself and just use a shurflo/delevan/whatever pump. Id probably do 2-4ozs of f-18, wash, brighten, rinse, set nails, stain, make bank

**just noticed how weird the flooring is made up. Wonder why they used so many half boards?

[Dave O 15]

**just noticed how weird the flooring is made up. Wonder why they used so many half boards?

You never heard a mechanic say parts is parts.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

A little in contrast here but I don't see it needing hydroxide...but hey I am just a newbie..... Why take the chance of furring it when this will turn out like new if just percarbed and then oxalic neutralized??.. I say oxalic as I would want them nail bleeds gone...

[PressurePros 249]

Kevin, its more a question of efficency. While you are pulling out and setting up a pump, I would have dipped a hose into a premixed tank of stripper and have that whole deck coated in under three minutes. It would be drenched with plenty of moisture and a diluted mix so furring would not be an issue. While you are stirring up your percarb mix, we are already washing which might take another 25 minutes including the trellis. While you are cleaning out your pump to start applying acid I am already applying it via downstream at the same rate of 2-3 minutes for a total coat. When you are once again cleaning the acid from your pump and start rolling it towards your rig, we are already on the road headed to the next job.

That whole thing should be cleaned and balanced in less than an hour from roll up to drive away.

[seymore 90]

You never heard a mechanic say parts is parts.

HEy Dave OOOOOOoooooooo :lgwave:

[seymore 90]

That whole thing should be cleaned and balanced in less than an hour from roll up to drive away.

You must be hanging around with Jarrod :lglolly:

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Kevin, its more a question of efficency. While you are pulling out and setting up a pump, I would have dipped a hose into a premixed tank of stripper and have that whole deck coated in under three minutes. It would be drenched with plenty of moisture and a diluted mix so furring would not be an issue. While you are stirring up your percarb mix, we are already washing which might take another 25 minutes including the trellis. While you are cleaning out your pump to start applying acid I am already applying it via downstream at the same rate of 2-3 minutes for a total coat. When you are once again cleaning the acid from your pump and start rolling it towards your rig, we are already on the road headed to the next job.

That whole thing should be cleaned and balanced in less than an hour from roll up to drive away.

Ken.... My belief is that number one goal firstly should be to not do more then needed to get the wood to condition to stain or seal and to not harm customers property... Mixing percarb powder takes no longer then hydroxide flakes but I hear what yer saying in that your using concentrated liquid form. Not sure discussing methods of application or efficiency plays part of the decission to be made here...I don't know how he goes about applying things and apparently you perhaps assume too much on how I would go about it but here I'll tell you I have most all methods of application dreampt up. Not gonna get too much into except for saying that ALL my cleaning/stripping/neutralizing application equipment stays in trailer and I currently can put out over 4gpm straight chemical if I wish through either my main pressure hose or dedicated 5/8 hose so I am right there with ya :)

[fireandrain 39]

So when you guys talk about downstreaming the stripper, do you mean mixing it up with water, dumping it into a 5'er and dropping your chem hose from your pressure washer into the mix, then spray it through your pw hose? My understanding is that you should never use your pressure washer for spraying any sort of caustics... Am I wrong? Enlighten me! And how do you regulate what kind of dilution from your pressure washer? I use 4GPM 4000 P.S.I cold units~exclusively residential.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

DSing is as it implies means your streaming chemical downstream of the pump.. so your not likely to hurt anything.

The DSer with machine powering it's venturi will dilute chems for you. Depending how strong you need you can dilute the chem first into a mix bucket or like Ken perhaps means to say you can just drop your DS line into a straight bucket of chemical and let the DS and it's adjustment valve do the work of ratios for you.(upto about 20%). There are other methods using small dedicated pumps to force feed the DSer more chem to improve your ratio if ya like.

[RPetry 564]

Could not disagree more. Why use a sledge when a tack hammer will do? No stain is present, you are not stripping, you are cleaning. Percarbs are much less harsh on the wood, no plant, house, or worker problems, no ice skating and taking a tumble, no safety glasses, rubber boots, rubber gloves.

Oh, and enjoy NaOH all over you and everything else when applying to the pergola.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

**just noticed how weird the flooring is made up. Wonder why they used so many half boards?

If you look closely enough, you will see that they used the same cuts as is found on the rails making the balustrade or pickets.

Some people like this style, I for one do not because as the deck ages these cuts warp badly.

Rod!~

ps, the deck shows signs of a sealer still intact, mostly on the rails so a light stripping is necessary.

[Jarrod 22]

I would strip it and brighten with oxalic.The stripper will clean the wood better than a precarb.

Exactly

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

HD-80 @ 3 oz to the gallon, strip, neutralize rinse....let dry, prep, seal.

Beth

[PressurePros 249]

:banghead: Again the broad stroke misunderstanding of chemistry causes generalizaton. I agree the goal is to not cause more damage to wood than is neccessary. I also don't buy into the shotgun approach. Don't confuse efficiency with git-r-done.

Here is the MSDS for Dawn dish washing liquid.

Chemical CAS No / Unique ID Percent

Fragrance(s)/perfume(s) 000000-00-1

Sodium hydroxide 001310-73-2 <1.0

2-amino-1-propanol 006168-72-5

Water 007732-18-5

Isopropylamine dodecylbenzenesulfonate 026264-05-1

Colorant/Pigment/Dye(s) 999999-49-3

Thickening agent(s) (unspecified) 999999-50-7

As you can see, sodium hydroxide is present. Why does it not eat up for plastic utensils, destroy your fine china? Because it is buffered and controlled.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Ken, Are you serious? Nobody is saying anything out of the ordinary. Nothing wrong with this job being done with various chems or methods outside your current business plan. There are only two of us here mentioning other chems other then hydroxide so I assume your head banging is over Ricks danger ridden example of why not to use it. Granted you can dilute it to be about harmless but really why go there? I see no past evidence of stain or sealer.(am interested of course in What Rod sees..do share Rod)

Fact is your right about efficiency but only in respect that it perhaps be more likely that a stronger mix of S/H would end up getting applied due to stronger starting strength prior to mixing and therefore the gray more likely to be removed quiker. Stain removal/bleaching is just as, or more likely, with the percarb or percarb mix then s/h alone. If applied strengths/effective cleaning power are made equal I would rather use the percarb any day. Thing is the percarb mix only lasts part of a day so maybe that part of why many like to use whether the wood needs it or not.

Personally the percarb runs a little cheaper for me.With that said I am not really recommending percarb alone..as you likely know I kinda like the 'modified apple sauce'..

For sake of example of dilution and trivia.... hydroxide is brushed on pretzels to make the outside crisp.. :)

Here is another thing to consider here on this project... this project could likely turn out just fine with oxalic alone..

Speaking of oxalic...am interested in what % strength you shoot for in your chem tank prior to downstreaming. Does it disolve for you guys well in cold water or no?. I been using citric and but last time I used the oxalic the cold water didn't work so well... Figures I came up with based on 20% (5:1)downstreamer is that to be equal with standard straight spray on (6oz.) is that you would need to have 23.43% (30oz) mix per gal. Is that correct?..

[PressurePros 249]

Citralic mixed by the bucket. One pail lasts about 6000 s/f (guesstimate). Warm water and 5 lbs per pail.

[James 625]

Before you start dousing a deck with Hyroxide or bleach. You must have a good understanding of dwell time and the chem your using. The age of the wood is also important and type. A 3 year old deck if different than a 6 year old deck for dwell time and then strength of the chem can be adjusted for the removal of the degraded wood. You have to have a better understanding of what can go wrong before you attempt this method.

I do use this method with the Xjet M5 for along time now. I still don't douse the whole deck but a section at a time.