Ariz. starts its employer sanctions 'experiment'

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

CensusScope -- Demographic Maps: Hispanic Population

HACU - Data, Statistics, and Research

http://www.tia.org/uploads/casestudies/Hispanic%20White%20Paper.pdf

Beth

[Ron Musgraves 240]

Immigrant workers make up a certain percentage of the American work force, but if those workers are paid less than minimum wage, under the table, then our dollar is even weaker than it already seems, and a portion of our economy is a lie.

Where are these guys that work for this? Matt, i cant get a guy to mow my lawn for less than 12 and hour.

At least we agree we should reform these good people and give them hope.

They could be honest hard working folks just like you Matt, possible a greaser.

[Ron Musgraves 240]

Does anyone know who buys the most phone cards or disposable phones?

Has anyone noticed that signs have popped up in various stores and other places of business such as banks, in Spanish as well as English?

Did anyone see the program Home Depot (as I recall) rolled out where you can by a HD card with X dollars on it, and send it to someone to use in another country? You can send money home, but keep it in your store.

What is happening with the immigration issue in the US will effect us in many, many ways.

Beth

Like i said VCR DVD FOOD CARS HOMES ,,, what burden are they putting on our economy? spending to much because they have nothing from the get go.

[Ron Musgraves 240]

The 9/11 attacks happened inside our borders, using our own planes against us, not with weapons of mass destruction from a country 5,000 miles away.

And why? because we did not have the pressence in middleast. Clinton admin reduced military spending to lower our cost of goverment.

[mbryan 48]

Hmm that is one theory.

If you read the 9/11 Commission report you will see that our own CIA and FBI disproves that theory. You should read it for yourself, I don't want to get too off topic in this thread. Suffice it to say that if there was a non U.S. presence in your neighborhood, that was doing things against what you strongly believed in as an American and a patriot, I am sure you would do something about it, and you would find a way to make what you did seem right in your own eyes.

As for illegal immigrants that will work for less than minimum wage, well you definately have me there. I can't prove definitively that any of them do. Do American businessmen take advantage of illegal immigrants that will work for less than U.S. citizens? Do they use this as a way to get out of paying FICA and WC? Who knows? But the new law in your state will certainly answer the question if it is enforced.

Don't be surprised if the price of a nice meal at your local restaurant goes up this year though.

[Douglas Hicks 128]

I like the Edward Abbey solution. Send them home with a 30-30 and a box of shells. Mexico is a government of corruption.

That puts the poor at a severe disadvantage.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Why is it, that so many people refer to anyone of Hispanic origin as a Mexican? There are many many Hispanic countries with large populations.

Beth

[Ron Musgraves 240]

Most restaurants already have legal help and they get paid well.

large corporation have been not hiring nationals for some time now.

Matt, how many people do you think might have worked for you that where not legal?

[Ron Musgraves 240]

I like the Edward Abbey solution. Send them home with a 30-30 and a box of shells. Mexico is a government of corruption.

That puts the poor at a severe disadvantage.

Yeah that a great solution, terrorists. Who suggested this?

Doug, the president of Mexico lives or lived in Tucson arizona.

Please, you really think the Mexican Goverment makes decisions on anything that pertains to the US?

[mbryan 48]

I am very confident that I have never hired anyone who wasn't in this country legally.

You are right many that many business owners are the same way and make sure that their employees are legal. It just makes you wonder when a state feels so strongly about this topic that they enact a law which will penalize business owners that don't. It may be that it is not as serious as people think, but only time will tell.

[Edward 14]

I love debating this one with you ant, you can’t win this one.

That is debatable.

You see the problem is that those programs for migrant and temp workers you talk about don’t exist anymore.

Really? Lets say your kids go to school. Do they attend the spanish speaking class or the english speaking class? Isn't spanish education a program that directly benefits the illeagal at the expense of the tax payer?

Check out the clip and link below as it relates to medical costs.

WASHINGTON - Health care providers can charge the government for emergency care provided to illegal aliens beginning Tuesday

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7795429/

This is about humans fighting for a better life, I thank my father and grandfather for fighting for mine

.

Let the bank robbers keep the money then. All they want is a better life too.

We need to remember once were we came from and remember the labor and journey our ancestors made and return the favor. These people are not taking food or money off your plate. It’s not what the government brain washed you about. Terrorist, crooks, killers & thieves.

I remember where I came from and I remember my ancestors doing it legally.

Open your eyes and you heart, for every one bad person that fits this profile are a thousand good people trying to eat.

Hispanics are the hardest working people I have ever known. Maybe you should get to know one; maybe you should reach out and understand they just want a piece of what our fathers wanted.

We are a country of laws not men and laws matter. Do you really want to get into the debate of what laws do we obey and what laws can we ignore? What about all the people who are trying to immigrate legally patiently waiting in line. Are we as a nation going to say hey the service industry wants cheep labor so you will have to wait while we let these people cut in line? I don't think we can afford the debate in this country of who gets to break the law and keep the benefits and who doesn't.

PS Arizona is doing it the right way. They come here illegally for jobs and if their aren't any jobs they will not come. If they aren't coming the need for a fence and all the costs associated with it are no longer a factor.

Edward

[Ron Musgraves 240]

ed, since we are doing it, look out the mexicans are coming your way.

Theres no legal way Ed.. thats the problem. thats why its worng, our goverment has passed unjust laws in the past only to cost the american people even more money.

This thread will be here in two years, will see who was right or wrong.

[Edward 14]

Ron

They are already here refusing to assimilate into our culture.

If you want to know who is right consult history and speak to the Native American Indian. They didn't control immigration either.

Edward

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

What do you mean refusing to assimilate? (I hope I am not sorry I asked)

Beth

[Jeff 232]

We send all our factories a lot of tech work and God knows what else out of USA Right, so we are losing 100's of thousands of jobs. Now the trades, construction, carpenters, electricians, plumbers, pressure washers , painters etc etc, blue collar jobs usually could make a good living. We lost all these fatorty etc jobs, now we are losing our Trades jobs to cheaper labor, but not only cheaper ther are millions of cheap labor bringing down wages for Americans

So now we are losing everywhere. We cant absorb, millions more. The Gov tells us 12-14 million from mexico, thats bull, I bet its WAY OVER 20 million and counting. We arent going to have jobs for us. Painting industry is getting destroyed, how long before the pressure washing industry gets destroyed

This country was built on immigrants backs, but we cant do it any more, we have lost to mush to mexico & overseas. We are a country that dosent build much any more and now we are a service country that is losing jobs to cheap labor

I dont know how to say it, we just cant keep absorbing milions & millions of people, we let them all in after being illegals, let them in, then there will be millions more, when does it stop, when its to late and we have no jobs

I know illegals right now that are subbing work ($10,000 - $100,000+Jobs)and making good money and they arent paying what I have to pay, they arent paying taxes nothing

Wake up America, we are giving away the farm. We cant help everybody, we need limits

[Jeff 232]

Im done, I can see both sides of the arguement, I just think we are losing to much

[HotShot 34]

Written by Carol Rock

Saturday, 05 January 2008

Welfare and food stamp benefits soar $3 million higher than September payout.

New statistics from the Department of Public Social Services reveal that illegal aliens and their families in Los Angeles County collected over $37 million in welfare and food stamp allocations in November 2007 – up $3 million dollars from September, announced Los Angeles County Supervisor Michael D. Antonovich.

Twenty five percent of the all welfare and food stamps benefits is going directly to the children of illegal aliens. Illegals collected over $20 million in welfare assistance for November 2007 and over $16 million in monthly food stamp allocations for a projected annual cost of $444 million.

"This new information shows an alarming increase in the devastating impact Illegal immigration continues to have on Los Angeles County taxpayers," said Antonovich. "With $220 million for public safety, $400 million for healthcare, and $444 million in welfare allocations, the total cost for illegal immigrants to County taxpayers far exceeds $1 billion a year – not including the millions of dollars for education."

Dave Hollenbeck

Santa Clarita Radio, Hometown Station, KHTS AM-1220 - Illegal Aliens Receive $37 Million From County In November

[Ron Musgraves 240]

so we should stop feeding children? I live is this wonderful country my fathers dsicoverd.

im happy to pay for kids, americans to get a better life and a chance to help there familys and ancestors a chance at democracy.

shame on the states that allow people to get children food and health care. be real,

ant. put yourself in there shoes once. talk to those friends of yours. because they like your grandfather wanted a better life for you, you have any compasion?

[mbryan 48]

Written by Carol Rock

Saturday, 05 January 2008

Welfare and food stamp benefits soar $3 million higher than September payout.

New statistics from the Department of Public Social Services reveal that illegal aliens and their families in Los Angeles County collected over $37 million in welfare and food stamp allocations in November 2007 – up $3 million dollars from September, announced Los Angeles County Supervisor Michael D. Antonovich.

Twenty five percent of the all welfare and food stamps benefits is going directly to the children of illegal aliens. Illegals collected over $20 million in welfare assistance for November 2007 and over $16 million in monthly food stamp allocations for a projected annual cost of $444 million.

"This new information shows an alarming increase in the devastating impact Illegal immigration continues to have on Los Angeles County taxpayers," said Antonovich. "With $220 million for public safety, $400 million for healthcare, and $444 million in welfare allocations, the total cost for illegal immigrants to County taxpayers far exceeds $1 billion a year – not including the millions of dollars for education."

Dave Hollenbeck

Santa Clarita Radio, Hometown Station, KHTS AM-1220 - Illegal Aliens Receive $37 Million From County In November

Wow those are some huge numbers, 1 billion per year. Thats a lot of tax money, no wonder my checks are so small:)

[Ron Musgraves 240]

So we install one less gun or skip target practice next week.

Maybe gates will donate the money to feed the children.

[John Doherty 126]

Just wait and see these when these illegal folks start competing with us all directly as business owners.

I see it here already, no language barrier, a workforce that is more reliable and will outwork anyone you can find, even at the same hourly rate.

No bad attitudes either, we grew up with the 'one day you can be president' mentality, so most idiots we hire think they know more than they do, or have a better way to do things.

Not so with the illegal folks, they grew up with a 'you work and get paid and feed your family' attitude.

We don't need innovators, we need guys who will show up on time every day ready to work, not &itch and moan, and follow simple instructions.

We're going to have some real challenges ahead.

[Edward 14]

What do you mean refusing to assimilate? (I hope I am not sorry I asked)

Beth

Beth I think the quotation by Theodore Roosevelt says it much better than I ever could.

"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

Edward

[Edward 14]

so we should stop feeding children? I live is this wonderful country my fathers discovered.

im happy to pay for kids, americans to get a better life and a chance to help there familys and ancestors a chance at democracy.

shame on the states that allow people to get children food and health care. be real,

ant. put yourself in there shoes once. talk to those friends of yours. because they like your grandfather wanted a better life for you, you have any compasion?

Ron

If you offer something for nothing don't be surprised if there is a huge line for that free something.

I remember the country our founding fathers created too and it was a country where the people worked to solve the problems their country faced. Now what we are doing is allowing illegals an easy way out. Instead of these hard working people staying in their own country and fixing the problems there like our founding fathers did here we allow them to abandon their own country for an easy way out. Our founding fathers sacrificed to create this country and what we have is because of them. Now instead of these hard working people staying in their country and working to solve the problems with their economies back home we allow them to break our laws and come here for the easy way out.

PS We can feed many more children if we teach them how to fish instead of providing free fish.

Edward

[John T 744]

Man this Debate can go on forever. Look at our history. The white man fled England to come here and in doing so they slaughtered the native Americans(K they weren't called that back then) Some of Eds points above are contradicting because these white guys and gals decided to not try and change England because to them it wasn't worth it so they fled to here...Jump to today..Sounds a little to familiar except for the slaughtering part.

Personally IMHO we need to change some laws to protect this country and to take that a step further and this may make a few people unhappy but our Constitution as good as it is--its somewhat flawed. There needs to be amendments made there.

I truly believe no matter how you slice it and dice it every nationality thats here now there were a bunch of "Illegals" from each one that came in under the radar to reap the rewards that our great country has to offer.

Also from what I see most likely the richer the person is in this country the more likely somewhere they have some illegals working for them.. and if not there outsourcing alot of there Labor end of there businesses to other countries that practice slave labor.

All of these big mouth politicians on all sides are full of bull. I hope in my lifetime some middle class citizen rises up and becomes president!!

You want to solve alot of problems..start with the rich and most powerful here. Thats where 99% of our main problems start at.

Yes you can look at the illegals and gripe about it all day..But take your eyes off of them for a second and start looking at the top 1% of this country.. Start there and many of the Middle class and even the illegal alien problems will start to subside..

[Edward 14]

Man this Debate can go on forever. Look at our history. The white man fled England to come here and in doing so they slaughtered the native Americans(K they weren't called that back then) Some of Eds points above are contradicting because these white guys and gals decided to not try and change England because to them it wasn't worth it so they fled to here...Jump to today..Sounds a little to familiar except for the slaughtering part.

But when they got here there the indigenous people weren't handing out food stamps and free medical care. The point I am making is that what this country is comes down to the hard work and sacrifice of those who stayed here to make it what it is. Our founding fathers could have run back to England where a country was already established but instead chose to stay here and create this county that we now enjoy. Nothing contradictory about that.

You want to solve alot of problems..start with the rich and most powerful here. Thats where 99% of our main problems start at.

Yes you can look at the illegals and gripe about it all day..But take your eyes off of them for a second and start looking at the top 1% of this country.. Start there and many of the Middle class and even the illegal alien problems will start to subside ..

People talk about the rich but no one ever defines it. How much money do you have to make before you are "rich"? The top one percent you talk about pays 39% of all the taxes. The top 25% of income earners pay 86% of the tax burden. Now some people may want to bash these people but since they are paying such a disproportional share of our tax burden I believe I will let them off the hook. It makes no sense to me to bash someone who is being productive enough to subsidize the remaining 75% of the income earners leaving them with just 14% of the burden to pay.

Edward