Obama - Biden - Your Opinion ?

[Apple Roof Cleaning 202]

What do YOU think about THIS ticket

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Texas State Rifle Association Political Action

To TSRA Members: Below is an open letter from the Illinois State Rifle Association's chief lobbyist

Illinois State Rifle Association

420 E. Locust, P.O. Box 637, Chatsworth , IL 60921

Phone: (815) 635-3198 or (815) 635-3166

Fax: (815) 635-3723

Website: www.isra.org

Fellow Sportsman:

Over the past 15 years, I have served in the Illinois state capitol as the chief lobbyist for the Illinois State Rifle Association. I lobbied Barack Obama extensively while he was an Illinois State Senator. As a result of that experience, I know Obama’s attitudes toward guns and gun owners better than anyone. The truth be told, in all my years in the Capitol, I have never met a legislator who harbors more contempt for the law-abiding firearm owner than Barack Obama.

Although Obama claims to be an advocate for the 2nd Amendment, his voting record in the Illinois Senate paints a very different picture. While a state senator, Obama voted for a bill that would ban nearly every hunting rifle, shotgun and target rifle owned by Illinois citizens.

That same bill would authorize the state police to raid homes of gun owners and forcibly confiscate banned guns. Obama supported a bill that would shut down law-abiding firearm manufacturers; including Springfield Armory, Armalite, Rock River Arms and Les Baer. Obama also voted for a bill that would prohibit law-abiding citizens from purchasing more than one gun per month.

Without a doubt, Barack Obama has proven himself to be an enemy of the law abiding firearm owner. At the same time, Obama has proven himself to be a friend to the hardened criminal. While a state senator, Obama voted 4 times against legislation that would allow a homeowner to use a firearm in defense of home and family.

Does Barack Obama still sound to you like a “friend” of the law-abiding gun owner?

And speaking of friends, you can always tell a person by the company they keep. Obama counts among his friends the Rev. Michael Pfleger - a renegade Chicago priest who has openly called for the murder of gun shop owners and pro-gun legislators. Then, there is his buddy Richard Daley, the mayor of Chicago who has declared that “if it were up to him, nobody would be allowed to own a gun”. And let’s not forget Obama’s pal George Soros - the guy who has pumped millions of dollars into the UN’s international effort to disarm law-abiding citizens.

Obama has shown that he is more than willing to use other people’s money to fund his campaign to take your guns away from you. While a board member of the leftist Joyce Foundation, Barack Obama wrote checks for tens of millions of dollars to extremist gun control organizations such as the Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence and the Violence Policy Center.

Does Barack Obama still sound to you like a “friend” of the law-abiding gun owner? By now, I’m sure that many of you have received mailings from an organization called “American Hunters and Shooters Association(AHSA)” talking about what a swell fellow Obama is and how he honors the 2nd Amendment and how you will never have to worry about Obama coming to take your guns. Let me make it perfectly clear - everything the AHSA says about Obama is pure hogwash.

The AHSA is headed by a group of left-wing elitists who subscribe to the British view of hunting and shooting.

That is, a state of affairs where hunting and shooting are reserved for the wealthy upper-crust who can afford guided hunts on exclusive private reserves.

The AHSA is not your friend, never will be.

In closing, I’d like to remind you that I’m a guy who has actually gone nose to nose with Obama on gun rights issues. The Obama I know cannot even begin to identify with this nation’s outdoor traditions. The Obama I know sees you, the law abiding gun owner, as nothing but a low-class lummox who is easily swayed by the flash of a smile and a ration of rosy rhetoric. The Obama I know is a stony-faced liar who has honed his skill at getting what he wants - so long as people are willing to give it to him.

That’s the Barack Obama I know.

Richard A. Pearson

Executive Director

Illinois State Rifle Association

Open Letter to Sportsmen:10/10/08

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Pajamas Media » Obama and the Attempt to Destroy the Second Amendment

"Voters who value the Constitution should ask whether someone who was party to that plan should be nominating future Supreme Court justices."

[James 625]

Kev, Man the stuff you put on the boards is pointless, full of speculation and rhetoric. Why don't you look into and put some Factual information about the the last 8 years of the of the Bush / Cheney administration ? How many Amendments where broken ? Did they lie to the American people and how many times? Was it the worst Presidency in history? That could be speculation? Should the American people vote for someone that will follow the same Ideology ( McCan't/Phalin)?

McCan't Do it !!!

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Kev, Man the stuff you put on the boards is pointless, full of speculation and rhetoric. Why don't you look into and put some Factual information about the the last 8 years of the of the Bush / Cheney administration ? How many Amendments where broken ? Did they lie to the American people and how many times? Was it the worst Presidency in history? That could be speculation? Should the American people vote for someone that will follow the same Ideology ( McCan't/Phalin)?

McCan't Do it !!!

What's more laughable than a fella not offering a single thing of meaning to ponder in a thread about his candidate yet focuses on someone that isn't even running?... Maybe a dem or two here think this thread is a dem luv fest or a circle jerk competition..lmaof :)

I can really tell how much some you value your constitution by how much you belittle the protecting of it.

James go ahead and tell us all about all the non factual events the Joyce foundation didn't fund or take part in while Obama was with them.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I suppose you'll find something wrong with him like you all did with Colin Powell too... ;) Beth

Ken Adelman Backing Obama | The Trail | washingtonpost.com

Ken Adelman Backing Obama

By Michael D. Shear

First Colin Powell. Now Ken Adelman?

Adelman is the latest Republican foreign-policy heavyweight to endorse Sen. Barack Obama, telling the New Yorker's George Packer that he intends to vote for the Democrat in two weeks.

"When the economic crisis broke, I found John McCain bouncing all over the place. In those first few crisis days, he was impetuous, inconsistent, and imprudent; ending up just plain weird," Adelman wrote, according to Packer. "Having worked with Ronald Reagan for seven years, and been with him in his critical three summits with Gorbachev, I've concluded that that's no way a president can act under pressure."

Adelman was a key part of George Bush's defense agency and has held senior policy positions under Presidents Reagan, Ford and even Nixon. He's a staunch conservative, though he has broken with Vice President **** Cheney and former Defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld over the handling of the Iraq war.

But he told Packer that Sen. John McCain's pick of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin to be his running mate was the last straw.

"That decision showed appalling lack of judgment," he wrote in an e-mail, according to Packer. "Not only is Sarah Palin not close to being acceptable in high office -- I would not have hired her for even a mid-level post in the arms-control agency. But that selection

contradicted McCain's main two, and best two, themes for his campaign -- Country First, and experience counts. Neither can he credibly claim, post-Palin pick."

In today's Post-ABC tracking poll, Obama is winning 22 percent of conservatives. That's his best showing yet among these voters, and if the percent holds on Election Day, it would be higher than conservative support for any Democratic nominee since 1980.

Obama also wins 12 percent support among Republicans in the tracking poll -- exactly double Kerry's 2004 Election Day haul.

[slightmold 64]

Obama - Biden.........My Choice...... My Vote.....

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

[YT]GtREqAmLsoA[/YT]

Beth

[Double07 14]

Where is Joe? Rag in mouth with duct tape over it maybe?? I just learned that Obama has an aunt living in a slum in Boston. If that was McCains aunt she would be paraded all over the media. This guy really backs up what he says don't he...wait a minute I guess he really does. He will help his aunt out and probably his brother living in a hut in kenya as well but he will use our money to do it and not his own. Afterall it was this sorry country's policies that put his aunt in that slum and if the U.S. wasn't such a terrible country his brother could have a nice brick home in kenya instead of a hut.

Hey here is an interesting read. Take a look at it and tell me what you think.

How Long Do We Have?

>

> About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new

> constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at

> the University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the

> Athenian Republic some 2,000 years ago:

>

> 'A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as

> a permanent form of government.'

>

> 'A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters

> discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.'

>

> 'From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who

> promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result

> that every democracy will finally collapse due to lose fiscal policy,

> which is always followed by a dictatorship.'

>

> 'The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the

> beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200

> years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence:

>

> 1. from bondage to spiritual faith;

> 2. from spiritual faith to great courage; 3. from courage to liberty;

> 4. from liberty to abundance; 5. from abundance to complacency; 6.

> from complacency to apathy; 7. from apathy to dependence; 8. from

> dependence back into bondage'

> Professor Joseph Olson of Hemline University School of Law, St. Paul

> , Minnesota , points out some interesting facts concerning the 2000 Presidential election:

>

> Number of States won by: Democrats: 19 Republicans: 29

>

> Square miles of land won by: Democrats: 580,000 Republicans: 2,427,000

>

> Population of counties won by: Democrats: 127 million Republicans: 143

> million

>

> Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Democrats: 13.2

> Republicans: 2.1

>

> Professor Olson adds: 'In aggregate, the map of the territory

> Republican won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of this great country.

> Democrat territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in

> government-owned tenements and living off various forms of government

> welfare...' Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the 'complacency and apathy'

> phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy, with some forty

> percent of the nation's population already having reached the 'governmental dependency' phase.

>

> If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million criminal

> invaders called illegal's and they vote, then we can say goodbye to the USA in fewer than five years.

> If you are in favor of this, then by all means, delete this message.

> If you are not, then pass this along to help everyone realize just how

> much is at stake, knowing that apathy is the greatest danger to our freedom.

>

> WE LIVE IN THE LAND OF THE FREE,

> ONLY BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE

Edited October 30, 2008 by Double07

[Jeff 232]

I love PWing

[Jeff 232]

What's more laughable than a fella not offering a single thing of meaning to ponder in a thread about his candidate yet focuses on someone that isn't even running?... Maybe a dem or two here think this thread is a dem luv fest or a circle jerk competition..lmaof :)

I can really tell how much some you value your constitution by how much you belittle the protecting of it.

James go ahead and tell us all about all the non factual events the Joyce foundation didn't fund or take part in while Obama was with them.

History has proven , if you don't look back you can never move forward without making the same mistakes over & over.

Bush/McCain/republican rule and same policies BIG MISTAKE, thats why we are looking back you putz LOL

Republican idealogy LESS regulation, leave big biz alone, less taxes for big biz..........YUP that really worked well didnt it, and you are all like a bunch of zombies wanting to let it all happen again

Have a great day. LIFE IS GOOD!

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Good read Micky..

I'll add.. 'FREEDOM WITHOUT RESPONSABILITY IS ANARCHY'

Yea things are messed up right now and even though we can find issue with any and all candidate put up for the position of president we should not give up the baby with the bath water by voting a party line that does not ascribe to core American conservative value. The course of wealth spreading and voting gifts via red tape goobermental loophole has been the bain of all that is good about this country.

It should be pointed out that this country is not a full on democracy but rather it is a constitutional republic with democratic representation and in that is where we still have a shread of hope against the idea that America will fail.

It is my opinion that a vote for Obama is a vote against America's survival...

Here is excerpt from related read:

There are no longer any voter-qualification impediments to democracy in the United States. But many have noted that the will of the people has tended not to prevail, and that a majority of people eligible to vote are so discouraged that they do not vote. The main reason for this is the buying and selling of elections and politicians by the wealthier class of citizens and their special interest groups. A year or more before elections take place, the winner is decided by those who vote with dollars. But this is a defect in democracy, not a reason to abandon it. The answer is to cure the defect, not to attempt to destroy our representative democracy.

What I would add though is that there is distinct lack of ability or action of the people to reign things in and take responsability for the balancing act. Too much democracy minded towards greed and ya get social welfare doom, too little and ya get a runaway train of big goobermint and special interest. It is easy to see and appreciate the basic use of democracy as a fulcrum of the balance beam. One side we got 'government' and the other 'the people'. It is a real shame that neither respects the other enough to realize though that it is 'the people' that controls the long term picture of how long we get to teeter as well as how high the roof or how soft the safety net beneith.Just like the story of the monkeys jumping on the bed, if either goes too high one or both may fall off and bump their heads. It is just a few simple things we are charged with in keeping it all going smooth yet we 'the people' truly know not how these days to be safe. Instead of slowing down and using our legs to repeal bad legislation we got selfish greed pushing so hard with lame idea that the fulcrum has to be raised. Bound to hit the roof with Obama's fulcrum. Both then gonna fall and get chance to ratchet it back down or we get stuck up there on the roof until the buidling actually breaks...

[MMI Enterprises 289]

History has proven , if you don't look back you can never move forward without making the same mistakes over & over. That move forward ya ascribe to is blatently the wrong type of move..see the above analogy..

Bush/McCain/republican rule and same policies BIG MISTAKE, thats why we are looking back you putz LOL ya forgot my smilie :)

Republican idealogy LESS regulation, leave big biz alone, less taxes for big biz..........YUP that really worked well didnt it, and you are all like a bunch of zombies wanting to let it all happen again strive for balance Jeff, zombies are people too.. That said, perhaps some day you see the dem party as the true gang of zombie. After all they just eat brains to ease their pain ya know.

Have a great day. LIFE IS GOOD!

Yup we are a nation of zombie.. :)

[Jeff 232]

Yup we are a nation of zombie.. :)

I have to agree we pretty much are a nation of Zombies, we just walk around and let all these politicains get away with just about anything and then we complain for a little while and then forget about it and move on the the next zombie move

[Scott Stone 604]

Just a minor correction, you have to be a citizne to LEGALLY vote in an election. Unfortunately, there are groups that shall remain nameless, that think that everyone should be represented and able to vote, so they do their best to circumvent existing laws so that they can be represented.

I could go on for a while about this, but, it would get heated.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Bottom line is, as Americans we need to get out and vote. Regardless of who you like, get out and vote.

Beth

[RJTravel 32]

...you have to be a citizne to LEGALLY vote...

To carry that further, one must be an American citizen to run for President! Not one of us are certain of Obama. Did his mother include him when she renounced her US citizenship upon moving to Indonesia? No one knows. Why will not Obama release his birth certificate? We don't know. Why did he seal his grant application to Occidental, which will show nationality claimed for grant purposes. Dunno. The current ongoing lawsuit may demand production of these documents, but no order will be entered until after the election. By then Obama will be the President Elect and the machine will find a way to keep these docs sealed. It seems incredible that we are about to elect a President about whom these very serious questions remain unanswered. C'mon, I could provide my birth certificate and applications! McCain produced these immediately. Why would anyone even consider a candidate about whom we know little and with impeachable material already in place. Perhaps Biden will be the next President?

Richard

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Oh come on!! We all know the reasons they can't produce the papers. Could be that when yer born on an island chain such as Hawaii it is smart to travel lite to meet up with the three wise men. I mean they don't just fly or boat over to meet ya these days, and can you imagine the amount of papers involved in an immaculate conception?.. Duh..!!

Then of course problem could be that God wasn't very good lover and so mom left him off the birth certificate. :lgbonk:

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

The question of Obama's citizenship is a mute point based upon the INS statute that states any child born within the borders of this country is entitled to naturalization.

That statute was in effect at the time of his birth in Hawaii.

ProPublish Reference

Rod!~

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Whooops! Looks like MCCAIN has a link to Ayers too....well imagine that. $50M Grant Links McCain To Ayers, Obama - Most Popular News Story - WMTW Portland

Beth

[Scott Stone 604]

Don't you think that there is possible a small difference of getting a grant from an organization, and declaring your candidacy for a public office in their living room? Or serving with the same person on multiple boards, and then attempting to cover it up? Then again, the Annenberg Challenge, which is where Ayers is involved, is far different from the Annenberg Foundation, which is a very conservative Philanthropic organization. They are two totally different entities. Similar to you being linked to Ron, if he had done something illegal, because you cross post on each others BBS's, and because I am a super mod on both.

Have you found a Rezko link, or a link to some wingnut preacher, too? By the way, that is a very obvious slam on McCain when you know what the difference between the Annenberg challenge and Annenberg Foundations are, but then, I have a feeling that article was not targeted at those that know the difference

Edited November 1, 2008 by Scott Stone

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

No such thing as a perfect politician. No such thing as a perfect leader. We all have to decide for ourselves who we are most comfortable with. Each of us gets a vote to do that. I have never missed an election yet, and I have voted for both parties pretty equally, not just one all of my life. I'm not one to vote all red or all blue all of the time. I am also one of those people who actually reads up on local issues and doesn't just decide them in the booth on election day by reading the synopsis on the ballot. To me, it is important to be informed. My choice may not be yours, but that's ok because each of us is given that right to vote the way we feel is best.

Bottom line - get out and VOTE on Tuesday, in the way that is best for YOU.

Beth

[Scott Stone 604]

So, if I am agreeing with you, which I think I am on at least that last point, is, the country is going to hell in a handbasket, and the choice is, whose handbasket is smaller to take us there in?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

So, if I am agreeing with you, which I think I am on at least that last point, is, the country is going to hell in a handbasket, and the choice is, whose handbasket is smaller to take us there in?

I would say that sums it up. We are in deep kim chee here, and quite honestly I don't think it is a 4 year fix. Whoever is elected, it will be one of the toughest terms in our history (not the worst but pretty bad compared to many) to govern, and I personally think we need to be just as concerned about who we elect at a STATE level as a Federal level, since many things are done by our states as well. Please be involved in your state elections, not just our federal one. It's going to take many working together with open minds (wouldn't that be amazing) for all of our sakes to fix this massive mess we are in.

Beth

p.s. I personally feel like this is the single most important election of my life so far...that's how bad I think it is out there, and how much I urge all of you to get out and cast your vote for the person you like best.

Edited November 1, 2008 by Beth n Rod
adding a PS

[MMI Enterprises 289]

The question of Obama's citizenship is a mute point based upon the INS statute that states any child born within the borders of this country is entitled to naturalization.

That statute was in effect at the time of his birth in Hawaii.

ProPublish Reference

Rod!~

Sorry Rod but last I heard there has been no birth certificate produced. After the fact birth registration has been claimed, if not proven, as a forgery.

The arguement that has been put fourth is that he was born in Kenya and his mother was not able to pass along citizenship to him due to the laws on the books when born. She was not of suitable age is the basis.

Also heard court case either failed, or was thrown out & dismissed in some way due to some premiss that it needed to be the opposing political party doing the action or some such junk as if private person can't file case.

The whole thing of renounced citizenship in order to become Indonesian citiizen(if he a citizen that is) may be moot point as then the question would be did he actually ever go through such process. Is there records or papers done up and officially endorsed, etc. by U.S.?

So hey if he was indeed born in Hawaii then so be it, I and the law would consider him citizen. If born elsewhere then no he isn't due to laws of the day...Don't ask me to provide the old code as I haven't seen it.

Why no records or school records produced?..besides avg. grades, likely cause grant papers show Indonesian citizenship. Indonesia don't allow dual citizenship. Where's the renouncment papers they likely would have needed?. Probably aint none cause...well we just don't know do we..

[RJTravel 32]

The question of Obama's citizenship is a mute point...

Rod!~

You are correct - it certainly is a suppressed 'mute' point, however it is not a 'moot' point. Renouncement of citizenship cannot be remedied in this respect - period. Inquiring minds demand to see these documents - don't fall for their excuses. You CANNOT responsibly cast a vote for this guy until you know. There are many, many other things about this guy which are not only unsavory but are absolutely diametrically opposed to Judeo-Christian American principles. He is Islamic in thought and practice through and through. This is the worst thing that can happen to America. You may be brainwashed by this self-proclaimed "citizen of the world", but I trust there are enough 'American' citizens to see the tremendous danger he poses and vote to get this guy out of American politics. It seems likely Obama will be the next President - if so I truly feel sorry for all of you who made that happen - you well may experience the Socialist economy, poverty, and disregard for human life that will ensue.

Richard