Staining my deck

[JFife 14]

Okay, I've been staining my deck the last few years and posting pics on various sites, showing the wear and tear, etc. and critiquiing the products I've used. Thus far it has been:

1) 2005: Sikkens SRD

2) 2008: Woodrich TimberOil

3) Spring '09: Defy Epoxy

Don't like the SRD, timberoil was a little better but at the 9 month point had faded significantly and was getting mold, DEFY doesn't look bad for 5 months. Getting mold in some areas, I'd guess that by spring it will have lost most of it's luster.

My goal is to find something that is still lustrous after one full year.

Anyways, I am putting on a new deck floor/handrails next week. I am wanting to finish it asap so that I can attempt to slow the warping/cracking of the PTP. I realize this will reduce the stain durability.

So what do people want to see??? I'll give a realistic analysis, critique, etc. I'm thinking Baker's, just because I have far more confidence in the TWP line of products than any other stain. But I am open to suggestions if several people on here would like to see a certain product applied, as I can continuously offer pics, etc. to detail the durability.

Thoughts? Oh yeah, I'm willing to do the deck half/half with two different products if the colors match ok.

[acegot 14]

I dont know if anyone remembers the Twp 200 cedar pic he posted of his deck after one year that looked incredible next to where he moved the door mat? Twp 200 (radscon, which bakers is blended with) dries very slow on smooth deck surfaces & has lots of pigment, but lasts. Its high solids & very low Voc.. Just found out yesterday that there is a woodie here in the SF bay area that blends 500 series Twp with 200 to thin it down & so it will penetrate faster & dry quicker. It supposedly holds up very well. I used to blend 300 ser.& 500 ser. together for years, it used to hold up very well, almost to good, just got to expensive.

[JFife 14]

double post

Edited September 16, 2009 by JFife
double post

[JFife 14]

I dont know if anyone remembers the Twp 200 cedar pic he posted of his deck after one year that looked incredible next to where he moved the door mat? Twp 200 (radscon, which bakers is blended with) dries very slow on smooth deck surfaces & has lots of pigment, but lasts. Its high solids & very low Voc.. Just found out yesterday that there is a woodie here in the SF bay area that blends 500 series Twp with 200 to thin it down & so it will penetrate faster & dry quicker. It supposedly holds up very well. I used to blend 300 ser.& 500 ser. together for years, it used to hold up very well, almost to good, just got to expensive.

Lyle,

I'm familiar with the contractor of which you speak. They do some beautiful work. I believe they base the ratio (500 to 200) based on the porosity/appearance of the wood. Really old, dingy shingles will get a batch closer to straight 200, while the fresher wood gets something closer to 500.

Have you ever played with 200? I've dabbled, but never applied to anything. All samples I did turned out darn near black---I don't care how long it holds up, I'm not a good enough salesman to get my money at the end of the job if the deck doesn't look great. It can look black on app, and dry to the lightest gold you've ever seen. Very odd. As I understand, it has something to do with the copper reacting and turning very dark until it cures.

[RPetry 564]

... I'm not sure about the brother thing. But the products--with the exception of the oil--aren't that similar. One has copper, one has zinc. One has spirits, the other doesn't. ...

Jon,

If I am not mistaken, RS changed their mildewcide formulation a few years back. I do not think there is any zinc in the product now.

If Baker's does not contain any mineral spirits, what are they using as a solvent?

[James 625]

This is a strange thread ? RS changed there mildewside but it is still in the Zinc family.

[PressurePros 249]

Jon,

If I am not mistaken, RS changed their mildewcide formulation a few years back. I do not think there is any zinc in the product now.

If Baker's does not contain any mineral spirits, what are they using as a solvent?

I think he meant the RS, Rick.

[James 625]

With Bakers you can mask crappier looking wood because of the pigment they use and make the choice of color based on that. Bakers has less of a solid content than RS. I think its 60 vs 85%. So on newer wood bakers is easier to use and on old crappy wood it's good because of the type of pigment. I use RS and can make it work like Bakers when I need it too. The benefits of these type of sealers is they preserve the wood and when you go back in a couple of years to do maint. the wood is in great shape! No other types of sealers do this !

[PressurePros 249]

So is everyone up for a Baker/TWP shootout versus Readyseal??? :)

For selfish reasons I'd rather see a TWP/Bakers and Armstrong shootout. I think it would be more apples to apples.

[YVPW 20]

Jon, put Sansin PTL(which is designed for new PT wood) I would bet money it will outlast all of them, and I love Baker's(which is of course based on the TWP 200 series, those products are the most mildew resistant you will find). I do different than Ken on application with Baker's though. I saturate the floor the first time and then saturate it again, and then I do a light third coat if needed. It will finish darker than what his has at first but will lighten up in 2 or 3 weeks. This way you get more oil in the wood. By the way Baker's doesn't finish opaque at all, it shows all the grain of the wood, but yet hides blemishes, and finishes very even.TWP 200 series says to add about 30% spirits to there product if using on a deck, of course you wouldn't have to if the deck was very old.

You know that Sansin has the best transoxide pigment money can buy in there stains. You would get 2 years on the first application of brand new PT wood. I don't know why others don't think there's a transparent or semi that will last more than a year on new PT wood. I've had a sample board on a hot tin roof in 100% full sun since around April of last year and it still looks good, and it was on a new 5/4 pt deck board.

Rick, you should use the Sansin PTL on your ipe, it wouldn't surprise me to see it hang with the Defy.

Edited September 16, 2009 by YVPW

[Adrian 155]

Adrian,

Do you still deal with Shane? If so, please ask him to get in touch with me.

I sent his # to you Jon.

[acegot 14]

Lyle,

I'm familiar with the contractor of which you speak. They do some beautiful work. I believe they base the ratio (500 to 200) based on the porosity/appearance of the wood. Really old, dingy shingles will get a batch closer to straight 200, while the fresher wood gets something closer to 500.

Have you ever played with 200? I've dabbled, but never applied to anything. All samples I did turned out darn near black---I don't care how long it holds up, I'm not a good enough salesman to get my money at the end of the job if the deck doesn't look great. It can look black on app, and dry to the lightest gold you've ever seen. Very odd. As I understand, it has something to do with the copper reacting and turning very dark until it cures.

Jon, same as you, dabbled a little bit. It was just simplier to blend the 300(high resin) w/ 500 to make the 500 last longer & make it a surface drying product.

I believe on decks the 200 - 500 (60-40)blend doesnt darken much before the color settles.

[JFife 14]

Lyle,

Do you understand why the color turn so dark? Did what I say about the copper make sense, or is it something else?

[JFife 14]

First off let me say big props to Jake Clarke. I hope he doesn't mind me pasting this, but this is the PM I just got from him:

Jon,

Any chance my A/C can get into this shoot out?

Jake

Armstrong Clark Co.

NOW THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKIN ABOUT!!!!! With a pair of stones that size, I imagine Jake has trouble finding jeans that fit!! :)

You got it brother, it will be a triple-stained deck floor, 1/3 Bakers, 1/3 RS, 1/3 AC. Would the sierra redwood be a good match to MED RED and SUPER CEDAR?

I'll be applying RS exactly like Rick has suggested, and I'll talk w/ Ken and do AC and Bakers exactly as he suggests.

Edited September 16, 2009 by JFife
remove Jake's cell

[JFife 14]

Jon,

If I am not mistaken, RS changed their mildewcide formulation a few years back. I do not think there is any zinc in the product now.

If Baker's does not contain any mineral spirits, what are they using as a solvent?

Rick,

Actually I was suggest RS didn't have spirits....or at the least, very very little. I was thinking the solid content was in the mid-90's?? (basically straight oil)

AFAIK, Baker's is about 30% spirits. The TWP 200 comes out of the box at 95%, and the Bakers is basically thinned down.

[JamieP 14]

Bakers is .375 Spirits

[Scott Paul 164]

For selfish reasons I'd rather see a TWP/Bakers and Armstrong shootout. I think it would be more apples to apples.

I agree with Ken.

Bakers though may be illegal to make after 2011 since I do not think it is 250 VOC

Edited September 16, 2009 by Scott Paul

[YVPW 20]

Jon, to get AC to be equal with Baker's, probably Ready Seal also, you would need to cut the Semi's in half with a Toner. To get a color close to Super Cedar Baker's you could do AC Redwood Toner mixed with Cedar Semi something like that. I have made up sample boards of all these combinations and found that the AC Semi would have to be cut in half with the toner to create the same look of Baker's.

[RPetry 564]

Rick,

Actually I was suggest RS didn't have spirits....or at the least, very very little. I was thinking the solid content was in the mid-90's?? (basically straight oil) ...

Jon,

Regular RS does contain some mineral spirits, but nowhere near the percentage of Baker's or most other oil stains. AFAIK, the "redwood only" line does not have any solvents.

Back to your test. I can have 2 gallons of Ready Seal shipped to you at no charge. Medium red is my personal favorite on pressure treated, but I am unfamiliar with Baker's and A-C as far as matching.

Please send me your shipping address and color selection. My company email is best, see the signature line below.

[acegot 14]

Lyle,

Do you understand why the color turn so dark? Did what I say about the copper make sense, or is it something else?

Jon, It may very well be, not sure, just know it doesnt darken as much on my redwood 2x6 plank as it does on cedar shakes(older cleaned & neutralized. Why, I'm not sure.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I agree with Ken.

Bakers though may be illegal to make after 2011 since I do not think it is 250 VOC

It's not compliant. Most of the east coast is not supposed to use it.

Beth

[RPetry 564]

Isn't Bakers and Rs made by two brothers here in Tx.? Little variations on each formula.

They compete with each or had a falling out between them? Or something to that effect. ...

Adrian,

I think Shane had his wires crossed. There is no relationship, blood or otherwise, between the owners of Baker's and Ready Seal.

[Adrian 155]

It's more than likely my wires that are crossed. No RAM space left in the old noodle.

I will try and post a pic of one section of my fence at home that has Bakers on it except for the gate that has RS on it. They have both been on the same amount of time and the Bakers is weakening by far quicker than the RS is.

FWIW.

[Chappy 138]

That last pic is the exact reason I can't use RS anymore. Clients would come out and offer a slight smile and dryly say, "oh. Great. Looks nice." The appearance is just too drab. In Rick's pic, a few of the vertical highlights look decent. But look at the steps. If that had been stained with TWP, it would be vibrant. No idea on A/C, not much experience with it.

Jon,

you have a strange definition of vibrant. I know my experience is limited but that is a beautiful stain.

[RPetry 564]

Adrian,

There are differences between Baker's and Ready Seal. From what I understand, Baker's purchases its paraffin oil, resin, and possibly other stuff like mildewcide, from Amteco, the parent company of TWP. Ready Seal has its own paraffin oil, proprietary resins, mildewcides, etc.

I think Baker's uses clay pigments, while Ready Seal uses finely ground iron oxide pigments, except for their Gold color. This difference may account for the better longevity of Ready Seal on your fence.

[Chappy 138]

I love these threads. I learn so much.

I only have one experience with Bakers. Gazebo and dock both stained with BGA super cedar gold/dark mix. Obviously the floor gets no sun, but notice the end of the dock. I replaced 10 boards. You can definitly see the difference. in fact Bakers specifically says not to use on new wood under 1 year old.

the second set is my office deck with AC Semitrans Cedar. the steps and stair rails are all new wood. Again no sun hits this deck. It has a much richer look to it and you can't tell the difference in the new wood and old, with the exeption of one board by the door.

(since my main experience is with Wood Tux, I was amazed at how well the wood absorbed the AC. even the second coat was all absorbed with no wiping off!)

On a side note, I had the remaining Bakers in my shed. I pulled it out and tried to mix it up (about 2 years old now) and the solids had solidified completely. couldnt mix it at all. Dont know whats it it that would cause that nor have I let other stains sit that long so I dont know what to make of it.