squirtgun 122 Report post Posted October 28, 2006 Pay particular attention to the fact that apparently some roofing munfacturers now recommend sodium hydroxide for cleaning roof.Last time I saw the ARMA bulletin it was still S/H,TSP and water. http://www.cleanpeers.com/articles/cleaning-asphalt-roofs.htm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 newlook 265 Report post Posted October 30, 2006 Matt, LOL. I hear you are doing "big" things these days....good for you. Let me know when you quit the nursing job. :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Thomas 14 Report post Posted October 30, 2006 Let them advertise what they want. The consumer will figuire out what is better for their roof. That is the beauty of our market imo. I recently was thrown a job from Apple Roof Cleaning. He just didnt have the time to mess with this lady. She was an internet educated roof cleaning shopper. Asking me questions about hydroxide based chems rac blah blah.... It is so easy selling roofs against these operations I cant even tell you. I love it when they spout one of those acronyms. Like taking candy from a baby. Glad they are around, ammunition for my gun. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Beth n Rod 1,279 Report post Posted October 31, 2006 Since I have no particular interest in reading Henry's article, I haven't, however, from the posts I'm reading, if he is promoting sodium hydroxide for cleaning roofs.....isn't that kind of the opposite of what was just recently published on roof cleaning in the Cleaner Times Magazine? Maybe Beth can actually post exerpts of what the PWNA endorses as well as her well-researched (I'm quite certain of good research with her) facts that were published.If I remember correctly, ARMA recommends sodium hypochlorite, the PWNA felt they should follow the AHJ on this one, which means that Henry/SunBrite is confused????? I am :) Celeste None of my research lead me to sodium hydroxide as a chemical for roof cleaning. I referenced two AHJ's,... ARMA and CS&SB. While I did not discuss (due to article length limitations) the chems to avoid, sodium hydroxide was not among those discussed as preferred and "OK" for roof cleaning. I would encourage anyone who is unfamiliar with roof cleaning to speak to someone at ARMA (for asphalt) or at CS&SB (Cedar Shake & Shingle Bureau) regarding any questions you may have and to put your mind at ease. My understanding from all my research, which also included a review of the PWNA manual, is that sodium hydroxide is not mentioned as a cleaning agent, nor is it suggested. It is a known taboo. There may be a difference between what is taught from the manual, and what a distributor may sell. I have not sat through this particular course, so I can't comment any farther that that. In the classes I have sat in before, chemical names are mentioned, but products are not. In other words the manual was adhered to. Beth :cup: Good morning! Happy Halloween! :cup: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Mathew Johnson 123 Report post Posted October 31, 2006 None of my research lead me to sodium hydroxide as a chemical for roof cleaning. I referenced two AHJ's,... ARMA and CS&SB. While I did not discuss (due to article length limitations) the chems to avoid, sodium hydroxide was not among those discussed as preferred and "OK" for roof cleaning. I would encourage anyone who is unfamiliar with roof cleaning to speak to someone at ARMA (for asphalt) or at CS&SB (Cedar Shake & Shingle Bureau) regarding any questions you may have and to put your mind at ease. My understanding from all my research, which also included a review of the PWNA manual, is that sodium hydroxide is not mentioned as a cleaning agent, nor is it suggested. It is a known taboo. There may be a difference between what is taught from the manual, and what a distributor may sell. I have not sat through this particular course, so I can't comment any farther that that. In the classes I have sat in before, chemical names are mentioned, but products are not. In other words the manual was adhered to. Beth :cup: Good morning! Happy Halloween! :cup: Beth I sent a Starbucks french vanilla cap to you via Fed Ex this AM... So if the highlighted data is correct, then why is a PWNA BOD member and an Alliance Instructor using his position credentials for credibility to promote the process and chemicals for Sunbrite Supply? Dont tell me that this may be an inappropriate use of power to influence the newbies and the ignorant Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 PWkid 79 Report post Posted October 31, 2006 Mathew that question has already been asked and nobody could answer it. This same topic appeared in another thread. lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Apple Roof Cleaning 202 Report post Posted November 1, 2006 None of my research lead me to sodium hydroxide as a chemical for roof cleaning. I referenced two AHJ's,... ARMA and CS&SB. While I did not discuss (due to article length limitations) the chems to avoid, sodium hydroxide was not among those discussed as preferred and "OK" for roof cleaning. I would encourage anyone who is unfamiliar with roof cleaning to speak to someone at ARMA (for asphalt) or at CS&SB (Cedar Shake & Shingle Bureau) regarding any questions you may have and to put your mind at ease. My understanding from all my research, which also included a review of the PWNA manual, is that sodium hydroxide is not mentioned as a cleaning agent, nor is it suggested. It is a known taboo. There may be a difference between what is taught from the manual, and what a distributor may sell. I have not sat through this particular course, so I can't comment any farther that that. In the classes I have sat in before, chemical names are mentioned, but products are not. In other words the manual was adhered to. Beth :cup: Good morning! Happy Halloween! :cup: Happy Halloween to you too Beth! Over at ***, there is a post on this article. I read it in haste, and it appeared Henry was teaching this method of roof cleaning. Not being of the Sodium Hydroxide "school of thought", I immediately jumped all over it. Henry emailed me and told me that he prefers bleach. Apple Roof Cleaning has long been an opponent of using ANY pressure on a shingle roof, or Sodium Hydroxide either http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml95/95130.html The above link has been on my roof cleaning website for almost 6 years. I just wanted to mention that ARMA recommends Bleach AND TSP. We must NOT forget about the TSP ? Somehow it kinda gets "forgotten" in the pro and con arguments of Hypochlorite vs Hydroxide ? ARMA knows what they are doing in recommending Bleach AND TSP together. TSP creates a synergestic reaction with Bleach, and allows one to use less concentrations of it. It is important to remember that strong Chlorine solutions can harm a roof too! Despite what the "Chlorine Cowboys" want to hear, we TRY and teach the right way to clean a shingle roof. One need only to look at the ARMA PDF file ? It says "Bleach and TSP" THe ARMA link is on my website, one one of the pages, or it may be found in a Google search. Trick OR Treat ?? Chris Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Mathew Johnson 123 Report post Posted November 1, 2006 I submitted an article to clean peers about evaluating an article and what to look for when reviewing an article before you change your methods of cleaning based on the article. I will wait and see if they will print it, if not ZI will ask Beth if I can post it here. I touched on a few of the concepts that I use when reviewing nursing research for evidence based practice changes at my other job. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Mathew Johnson 123 Report post Posted November 1, 2006 Happy Halloween to you too Beth!Over at ***, there is a post on this article. I read it in haste, and it appeared Henry was teaching this method of roof cleaning. Not being of the Sodium Hydroxide "school of thought", I immediately jumped all over it. Henry emailed me and told me that he prefers bleach. Apple Roof Cleaning has long been an opponent of using ANY pressure on a shingle roof, or Sodium Hydroxide either http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml95/95130.html The above link has been on my roof cleaning website for almost 6 years. I just wanted to mention that ARMA recommends Bleach AND TSP. We must NOT forget about the TSP ? Somehow it kinda gets "forgotten" in the pro and con arguments of Hypochlorite vs Hydroxide ? ARMA knows what they are doing in recommending Bleach AND TSP together. TSP creates a synergestic reaction with Bleach, and allows one to use less concentrations of it. It is important to remember that strong Chlorine solutions can harm a roof too! Despite what the "Chlorine Cowboys" want to hear, we TRY and teach the right way to clean a shingle roof. One need only to look at the ARMA PDF file ? It says "Bleach and TSP" THe ARMA link is on my website, one one of the pages, or it may be found in a Google search. Trick OR Treat ?? Chris GOOD POST :lgsideway:lgwave: Factual, Informative and has the data to back it up! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 newlook 265 Report post Posted November 1, 2006 I agree ~ Chris post cuts to the chase! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Beth n Rod 1,279 Report post Posted November 1, 2006 Chris, Yes! Thank you for mentioning TSP. I neglected to mention it above, but it certainly was shown in the research I did to be a part of the roof cleaning process. Mathew, You are welcome to post any article here you like. Please use the Library forum. :) Beth :cup: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 FCPWLLC 233 Report post Posted November 1, 2006 FYI for anyone that has read anywhere that GAF will void the warranty of thier shingles if bleach is used. The only place you will see this statement is where a chem seller is trying to sell you thier "Roof Cleaner". I just got off the phone with GAF. They sent to me thier technical Bullietin. Here is the link. http://www.gaf.com/Content/Documents/22710.pdf They only endorse the use of bleach-TSP and Rinsing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Washaway 64 Report post Posted November 1, 2006 FYI for anyone that has read anywhere that GAF will void the warranty of thier shingles if bleach is used. The only place you will see this statement is where a chem seller is trying to sell you thier "Roof Cleaner".I just got off the phone with GAF. They sent to me thier technical Bullietin. Here is the link. http://www.gaf.com/Content/Documents/22710.pdf They only endorse the use of bleach-TSP and Rinsing. I had a potential client call this morning asking some very specific questions. Found out that his roofer's warranty specifically warns him of a warranty void if chlorine/bleach or pressure is used to clean his barrel tile roof. He is in for an interesting day trying to find someone with an alternative method of cleaning and I can't wait to hear what the roofer has to say to him after they've spoken. Maybe the roofer will contract Harry Potter to clean this guy's roof? "Exxxpeditious-Cleansous" Next time in Engald I'll visit Diagon Alley and buy me one of those wands. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Thomas 14 Report post Posted November 1, 2006 I love harry potter. I play a lot of mmorpg's that emulate that genre. The geeky side of me! I have had customers come out and say the roof cleaning method we use is magical! Cleanimous MAximous Gloecopsia! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Washaway 64 Report post Posted November 1, 2006 I love harry potter. I play a lot of mmorpg's that emulate that genre.The geeky side of me! I have had customers come out and say the roof cleaning method we use is magical! Cleanimous MAximous Gloecopsia! I have Harry Potter glasses!!! :lgkick: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Apple Roof Cleaning 202 Report post Posted November 2, 2006 Chris,Yes! Thank you for mentioning TSP. I neglected to mention it above, but it certainly was shown in the research I did to be a part of the roof cleaning process. Mathew, You are welcome to post any article here you like. Please use the Library forum. :) Beth :cup: I know you merely forgot Beth. We all know how dedicated you and Rod are to doing things right. We gotta all remember that not everyone who reads what info is shared here is a veteran like most of us are, and KNOWS TSP is the second ingredient mentioned by ARMA. BTW, when the Cleaner Times came, one of my guys took it to the breakfast place, and I "caught" him reading your article!!! He about gave birth when I told him I "knew" you! He said "no way". When we got back, I took him to TGS, and showed him a post we were both in, and he just could not get over that someone could actually "talk" to you. Now, he is JUST a kid, starting his career in our industry here at Apple, and so he is VERY impressionable. He is a good kid though, and wants to make a career out of Cleaning. You made a great impression on him! I asked him what he thought of your article, and he said "Maybe I can someday find ME a girlfriend to be my cleaning partner" Just wanted you to know! Chris Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Apple Roof Cleaning 202 Report post Posted November 2, 2006 I had a potential client call this morning asking some very specific questions.Found out that his roofer's warranty specifically warns him of a warranty void if chlorine/bleach or pressure is used to clean his barrel tile roof. He is in for an interesting day trying to find someone with an alternative method of cleaning and I can't wait to hear what the roofer has to say to him after they've spoken. Maybe the roofer will contract Harry Potter to clean this guy's roof? "Exxxpeditious-Cleansous" Next time in Engald I'll visit Diagon Alley and buy me one of those wands. Show Him This http://www.asphaltroofing.org/pdf/tb_217.pdf This is the ARMA PDF file Beth was referring to when she did her research. Chris Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 FCPWLLC 233 Report post Posted November 2, 2006 Show Him This http://www.asphaltroofing.org/pdf/tb_217.pdfThis is the ARMA PDF file Beth was referring to when she did her research. Chris Chris, You may want to add this link to your site also. I got this from GAF. They sent me the pdf and link after I spoke with them on the phone. I let them know that there are people claiming that the use of bleach on thier shingles will void the warranty. This is NOT the case and is only a ruse to try and sell a "Roof Cleaner" http://www.gaf.com/Content/Documents/22710.pdf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Guest John Sanford Report post Posted November 2, 2006 What was GAF's position before they came out with this PDF? The PDF on your link is dated 1/03/06, could they have changed their position on the use of bleach? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 FCPWLLC 233 Report post Posted November 2, 2006 What was GAF's position before they came out with this PDF? The PDF on your link is dated 1/03/06, could they have changed their position on the use of bleach? She said that they have always endorsed bleach and TSP. I think that date is just perhaps an updated Tech Bulletin. Maybe, since recently, they started getting calls concerning these other "cleaners", they saw a need to put out a Bulletin. Anyhow, she was very helpful and very straight forward about never recommending any pressure or any other chemical. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Washaway 64 Report post Posted November 2, 2006 Show Him This http://www.asphaltroofing.org/pdf/tb_217.pdfThis is the ARMA PDF file Beth was referring to when she did her research. Chris Chris, My post clearly states that it a barrel tile roof. Wouldn't get far with showing him an Asphalt roofing material's cleaning guidlines. He made a point of mentioning that his tiles are not nailed but glued with the foamy adhesive that they've been using. Maybe there is something behind it. Could the chlorine have some sort of negative break-down effect with that adhesive compound? Then again it could very well be another case of trying to get out of having to do something. (it's all possible). We've had a homeowner in the community who tried to convince management that her roof is not dirty, it's black. Who in their right mind would manufacture a black roof?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Mike Williamson 198 Report post Posted November 2, 2006 Pay particular attention to the fact that apparently some roofing munfacturers now recommend sodium hydroxide for cleaning roof.Last time I saw the ARMA bulletin it was still S/H,TSP and water.http://www.cleanpeers.com/articles/cleaning-asphalt-roofs.htm Well, I think the problem comes down to the fact that Henry's store, Sunbrite Supply of Maryland, doesn't package and sell sodium hypochlorite roof cleaning products..... I wonder just how many roofs Henry has cleaned? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Mike Williamson 198 Report post Posted November 2, 2006 If you liked scotts article website...... You will really like this site.http://www.articlesource.com/library/profile.cfm?writerid=8935 Wow...Henry's been busy. It was "over 10,000 customers" last year. He's added 2000 customers this past year, apparently. Way to go, Henry!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Mike Williamson 198 Report post Posted November 2, 2006 Let them advertise what they want. The consumer will figuire out what is better for their roof. That is the beauty of our market imo. Sure they will.... :rolleyes: Like the 2-story roof I did last week where I nearly killed myself because the roof had so much loose grit from the last idiot who pressurewashed it with full pressure every year for the past 5 years....The only reason they called me is that he's now sticking only with painting since the pressure washing wasn't paying enough. They had no clue, and would have allowed him to continue ruining their roof had he been willing. Some of the shingles had about 50% coverage of grit...I'm guessing he took at least 5 years off the life of their roof, not to mention making this roof impossible to walk.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 PressurePros 249 Report post Posted November 2, 2006 Mike, good to see you, you must be busy. Five years is a conservative estimate. That roof is probably just about shot already. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Mike Williamson 198 Report post Posted November 2, 2006 Mike, good to see you, you must be busy. Five years is a conservative estimate. That roof is probably just about shot already. Yep, been busy with other things the past few weeks. Oh, and trying to attain and keep the Mahjong championship!! LOL! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pay particular attention to the fact that apparently some roofing munfacturers now recommend sodium hydroxide for cleaning roof.Last time I saw the ARMA bulletin it was still S/H,TSP and water.
http://www.cleanpeers.com/articles/cleaning-asphalt-roofs.htm
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