Correct Knowledge

[tony szabo 14]

I hope this is taken with a grain of salt.

I see alot of new orgizations and new people and new bulliten boards latley in the pressure washing profession. Is this industry becoming a loose cannon with education, knowledge, experience. It seems to me it is and I do have concerns about the future of our industry.

How can someone with less than five years experience educate a course or a classroom on a topic just because they had a good season or made their first $100,000? These so call educators and instructors are getting most of their material from the Web ? . In all, may be some good advice, but where that information is coming from is mainly text from another site.

Just because you spend countless hours on reading and getting tips from a 30 year veteran still does not give the proper education to teach a flat work course.(for example)

We need to follow the industry leaders that have been around for years and years, that has made millions, that has several employees, that has proven leadership with trust, that has the proper education in their field of pressure washing. The web is a tool for information but not to copy and teach. If you spend all your time on the bbs's and on the phones to find information that means your business is not busy in the field.

If the new guys gets the wrong information, not enough information, less information that they really need to know they will not last long and black eye the industry.

We need true leadership that has been around for decades not because someone made $100,000 part time their third year in business.

We are all in this together and most of us have down time this time of year are are crusing the bbs's. Lets all slow down a bit before somethings get out of control with industry leadership.

Concerned

Tony Szabo

Also why do some people that post do not use their real name?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Tony you raise some valid concerns. One of the things that I find so interesting about this industry, is that so many people come into it with a variety of backgrounds, some of them quite interesting. Some people don't have the backgrounds that other do this is true, but when I see some of the folks sharing who do have such rich backgrounds, I'm glad to see it.

As an admin, it can be difficult to police all the users and to ensure all real names are used. There have been times when users have started our fictitiously and then changed their information. Some lurkers come around, others do not. I don't know if it helps to share this with you or not, but I hope it helps. :)

It's good seeing you online again! :)

Beth

[JFife 14]

How many hoods has Phil Ackland cleaned?? According to your philosophy, Barry Bonds would be the greatest baseball coach of all time. Michael Jordan---a dynamic success as a basketball businessman (not serious, for those unaware). Just because you can "play", doesn't mean you can "coach". If you have some "industry leaders" in mind that are offering teachings, I'd be happy to hear about it. Otherwise, the only people I've ever heard of would be considered moderate successes at best IMO.

[One Tough Pressure 580]

I use my real name, "ONE I am, "TOUGH" I am, "PRESSURE" I use in many ways.

I am a part timer by some standards because I have a day job. My business is self supporting as I do not use my other job to finance my way thru pressure cleaning. If I lost the other job, I would be out money, but the biz would continue as normal.

My five year point is approaching as to the business, but I have been in the Commercial/Industrial cleaning field for 10 years outside of pressure cleaning.

I have trained quitea few local guys in proper and efficient flatwork procedures, but not as a class. I do not charge, nor certify. I just want them to see what it really takes to make it before they low ball my accounts with no experience.

Most of the "major" players here that have been making money and have multiple employees with many years in the biz are the HACKS. They look for money only and do the blow and go. Are they the ones that should be teaching these classes because they have the money made and years on paper to make them look better.

I know some 20 year vets of concrete cleaning that do it all wrong. They have no computer so have no knowledge of new techniques. Do all paperwork by hand with 2 sets of books to leave no trace for the IRS, have no clue about the CWA but they make millions and have many trucks on the road. Is money and years on the job the only thing to make someone more legit???

[JFife 14]

...Delco folks being the exception.

[PressurePros 249]

Valid points, all of them. Its a fine line. This industry is taking off. There are going to be pioneers, copycats and hacks as the ventures tied to washing are explored and exploited.

Cujo with his new venture, the PWNA with their new deck builders alliance, and other "schools" have introduced experts from outside of the industry. Many of these guys have never picked up a wand or have any clue how to clean. In my opinion, they don't need to. Business is business. The service offered may change, the color on the box may change but there is still a core way of making anything profitable.

The cleaning end of the business is not rocket science. That is not meant as an insult to anyone and what they offer. It is what it is. I am far from the best deck guy, housewasher or otherwise in the industry. In fact, I venture to say I suck at it compared to some. I am a business person, thats what I am good at. I'm sure there are plenty of guys that have been around for three years part time that can teach me a thing or two about cleaning.

Keep your mind open, Tony. You may be surprised as to what shakes out.

[tony szabo 14]

I want more education because after 16 years I'm still learning. I Just would like to see the proper education. Whats proper? Its not out there yet. Standards and education all needs to be set to where we are all are on the same page.

I agree with being part time you still are a asset and could educate but some time the ones that hide and do not use their real name and offer advice and are gone with-in six months and try to do good but just don't know.

[Jeff 232]

Tony I think you make some real good points. I myself have people look towrds me for advise, I sometimes think its funny, its a compliment also. I have only 3 years fulltime and many years in related trade, But I would never teach a class.

I offer my advise and quite often I'll tell the people this is how I DO IT, I also tell them there are better ways or I dont know enough to offer them solid advise. ALL my advise is how I do things

There are many who have years that are more qualified and hell I learn everyday. There are some who offer advise and dont know s--t. I know of people that offer advise and seem like they are successful and arent. There are some that have screwed others on these BB's. So I tell all on these BB's be CAREFUL and I think thats some of what Tony's talking about. I hear things that make me laugh and things I take seriously but I take it all with a grain of salt. I use what I can to make my best informed decisions

I know one class I'll never teach, is book keeping 101. Many would laugh or put down how I do things, but it works for me and thats who my main concern is, I cant wait to run an even better business. To bad I'll have to wait till I can afford to hire someone to do it

Tony you are right theres a lot gong on and people should be careful, I totally agree

Take it all in and sift through it all and everyone make their own minds up

Good post Tony!!!!!!

JL

[tony szabo 14]

I'm not trying to offend anyone. Just please step back and research where you get your new education in the pressure washing profession. Just because a certain name or company is all over the bbs's does not make them a quality instructor or industry leader.

Follow the leader is not a bad thing if you are following the right leader.

That is why I like to follow the knowledge of the big companies.

[Barry M 73]

Tony

First of all it's good to hear from you, it's been awhile. I am aware of why this thread was brought up, if you have a problem, give ME a call.

I guess my first thought is, if some of you guys that have a ton of experience would come around more often and do your part as far as helping to educate and better our industry maybe some of us newer guys would shut our mouths and open our ears more often. I don't have a problem with you personally, at all. You have a ton of experience in PWing and in running a business and personally I've missed your involvement on the boards. I do frown on you showing up out of nowhere with your opinion on this matter when you haven't done anything to help this problem. Anyway I would love to chat give me a call.

[squirtgun 122]

Tony,

Just who/whom is it that you suggest we get advice from?Most,not all,but Most who charge for learning have the almighty dollar on their minds and could care less about what a student of their teaching take away from a course.

These so called leaders of our industry you speak of aren't here offering advice to the noobies,nor are they here helping those of us with 3-5 yrs experience attain higher goals for our companies.They all have personal agendas they push through a few puppets while they sit back and watch the chaos unfold.Some even go as far as denouncing this format of learning,when they themselves have gleaned what they can from it at every opportunity.

I applaud the guys who are trying to raise the bar by hosting RT meetings and Grass Roots events.The are the true leaders of PWing at this time.Why?because they want to see small businesses in this trade succeed,they are trying to give the most accurate info they can in a neutral environment where everyone can learn.

Where have you been?Why do you only pop into the BBS world a few times a year?

It's a double edged sword.If you are going to cry foul you should at the very least put yourself out there for Q & A as to why you think it's wrong.Don't draw the line in the sand then not cross it to prove your point.

[Don M. 14]

I am no where an expert in anything, and I really want to learn. Thats why I decided to host a roundtable so I can learn.

Like I told you on the phone Tony, some people dont want to be in the room with others. So when this happens we all lose out. I wish it wasnt that way but it is.

By the way, you've been the only one to call and voice concern about these issues. I wish you would have brought it up to me in a different way, because A. I dont know who the heck you are and B. you called me riding on your high horse about Barry. I have full faith in Barry and the information he is working on.

But, It's a cool now, but next time before calling a stranger I would be careful on how to bring up different issues.

I am no expert on anything dealing to pressure washing. But I have the contacts that if I run into a situation I know I can get it resolved. Steve Rowlett, Bob Williamson, Paul Kassander, Ken Fenner, etc., are only a phone call away. So even though I have only been in business two years I feel like its been many years because of guys like these and bbs boards like this one, Bob's, and Steve's.

[squirtgun 122]

Tony,

Denouncing those trying to further this industry because they don't have 30 yeasr in the field is like.........................traveling to Uranus to announce that you don't believe in space travel???

[Celeste 341]

THOSE people with all of THOSE years in business that are supposedly providing educatin to OUR industry ..... hmm, maybe I'll shut up until next year :)

Celeste

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I learn something new every day. As good as you are, you can never, ever, know all there is to know. When you think you are doing well, ask yourself a question you don't know the answer to yet, and seek to learn more.

One of the most critically important things I walked out of college with, was the skill of research. To me, being able to study, research, think for myself and discover the answers was important. In all of my professional life ( not just in this industry either) this has been very important. It's OKAY to not know an answer. Do you know where a library is? Do you know how to read? Do you check several sources, and do you formulate conclusions based upon facts and date that is well supported? Do you know when to admit to yourself that you don't know the answer instead of Forrest Gumping your way through things?

We are grateful to all who post here. We are grateful to our vendors with many years of knowledge who are here. We are grateful to the manufacturers who answer questions about products. We are greatful to the EMT's, Nurses, and so on who have offered first aid advice. They may wash part time, but have other skills to offer as well. We are thankful to those with backgrounds in chemistry who add wonderful knowledge beyond what we learn in the field. We are grateful to you all. We know we are a diverse group who do not know everything, but who together want to know more. TGS is here for the benefit of any who want to help their business grow, and each one of our members makes TGS what it is.

Beth

[PressurePros 249]

Here is what I have seen of the "experts" Tony speaks of..

• One company sends emails about wood restoration filled with at least 5 mistakes most newbies are aware of. I have also heard a ton of complaints about fraudulent claims, false promises and out and out lies. Don't know if those accusations are true but I have heard them enough to not even consider doing business.

• The last I heard about a certain franchiser, one of his branches had their equipment up for sale. This in and of itself is meaningless.. or is it?

• See, the internet is a dangerous thing. I have seen outstanding tax liens, criminal prosecution mug shots, missing licenses, and a whole bunch of other misnomers I would consider things NOT to do. These were all on the list of "experts".

• In talking to another contractor I come to find out one of those "experts" has his family out helping him wash. I missed that one in the book of professionalism.

I have heard things about myself through the vine. Most of the gossip is rooted in jealousy. I'm guilty of it too. I'm jealous that I missed the ball and didn't formalize a company to teach marketing. My primal instinct is to say, "oh that guy doesn't know what he is talking about".

Don't believe the hype, Tony. I went to your website and saw something that explained a lot. I know there is a lot of us and them division right now, just be your own mind and decide from whom you learn.

"Every man is my superior in that I may learn from him"

[yazbird8 17]

Beautifully said Beth.....TGS is my personal daily line to knowledge/ education.......

Stephen Andrews

Power Washing

Home & Property

Care & Maintenance

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

One other thought to ponder here.... If you go to a convention you meet both newbies and seasoned vets. You meet people from all walks of life will all kinds of experience or lack thereof. I guess I don't see how this is any different; we have all been in business varied lengths of time, we know what we know and we also know that what we don't know we need to learn from one who knows.

Beth

[A Fountain 14]

Man, i'm a nobody and my thoughts don't count much. May i say i appreciate all the advice thats given on this site as well as the willeness of others to host, share, etc at round tables.

Thanks to those newbies, not so new, and the seasoned vets of this business. I sure would hope i'm smart enough to filter out what i may not think would work for me. Anyway, just mt 2 cents.

Aaron

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

This is a make you think thread. The collaboration of minds here could come up with some ideas that could set things in motion but to where still is over the horizon.

Hi Tony and welcome back to TGS. Your points are worth pondering but I also wonder if you have a plan? The subject being broached has a beginning, a middle and a conclusion. The beginning is to get people to realize that quality accredited education is in short supply. The middle is determining qualifications for being an instructor/teacher. The conclusion is the need for worthy leadership to help guide the preceding factors.

What are your ideas? Anyone else have something to contribute?

As your initial post pointed out, integrity and knowledge are the key components which opens up a gray area that most will find subjective arguments to support their positions.

First task is unification. You started it with your post to get people to think about your concern. Next task is deliberation to form a consensus on what action to take. Third is choosing who is qualified, capable and willing to take up the post?

I won't elaborate further till the first tasks have been completed. Otherwise, it is all just words on the screen.

Rod!~

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Here's a snapshot of some of our users... http://forums.thegrimescene.com/showthread.php?t=8838

Beth

[tony szabo 14]

I have done some input into this industry on helping make things better for the new guy on the block. I'm sorry that not everyone see's eye to eye of where to get proper education our where to find it.

My tool is the Pwna and if you are not envolved with this org. That is why you may not know who I am. I have been around for 16 years in this business and learned things the hard way before bbs's and done somethings wrong by trial and error.

The new guys are lucky to have the help now with the bbs's, but are they being guided in the right direction? that is my point.

I tried to help and just to much fingure pointing, blaming others, and people working against each other in this industry. I have burned to much time, money and effort to help, and decided to spoil my family and build my business for the last few years and everything has work out well and things are good.

I do want more education, but where do we get it from someone with a few years experience and a bbs person with a thousand post.

You do not see me much on the bbs because I focus more time on my Family and Business. Now winter is here I have some time for the bbs, but come spring my focus is elsewhere.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Tony I see your points. I always look to orgs...all of them. Going back to what I said, I do research. If I want to learn about roof cleaning, I look up ARMA and CS&SB and then after studying, talk to guys who do this as a majority of their income. There are various orgs out there, and also government agencies that are helpful, for example OHSA, and EPA, Forest Labs have lots of great info online, and they are certainly valid sources. The PWNA is one option, and we are members. But I don't put all my eggs in one basket or read only one book so to speak. There is a vast wealth of knowledge on many fronts out there.

Best advice I can give you Tony, is give in a way that feels right for YOU. If that means you post a little in the slow season, great, if it means you donate time to an org, excellent. It's a personal choice and the fact you help is the important thing. It's that you do help, that is important. Know what I mean?

Beth

[John T 744]

I agree with most of what Tony is saying but just because someone has a ton of years under there belt as a contractor it doesnt necessarily make them a good teacher. On the other hand there are so many out there with hardly any experience and they right away think there qualified to be a teacher in this industry.

If I had a choice I would rather have my company be taught by a person that comes from a very successful company such as a Flood, Benjamin Moore, V-seal, Prosoco etc.

Still on a smaller scale if there is someone that is just great at being a teacher and has studied up on this field and knows most of what they need to know to teach I would attend that also. Preferably though I still want the most successful ones to teach me and my employee's first.

As for bb's I do believe in them but you have to siff thru them to figure out who the phonies are which for a newbie is hard for them to do. This is where some of the biggest problems are and I think with an aggressive aproach to this in the future thru the net alot of this can...and will be corrected if the ones can find where to go for this. They will have to search this out themselves down the road when they do there due dillegence. In case if anyone is wondering if there is that place down the road yet..as far as I know its not. Doesn't mean that it wont or cant be.

[squirtgun 122]

Here is what I have seen of the "experts" Tony speaks of..

• One company sends emails about wood restoration filled with at least 5 mistakes most newbies are aware of. I have also heard a ton of complaints about fraudulent claims, false promises and out and out lies. Don't know if those accusations are true but I have heard them enough to not even consider doing business.

• The last I heard about a certain franchiser, one of his branches had their equipment up for sale. This in and of itself is meaningless.. or is it?

• See, the internet is a dangerous thing. I have seen outstanding tax liens, criminal prosecution mug shots, missing licenses, and a whole bunch of other misnomers I would consider things NOT to do. These were all on the list of "experts".

• In talking to another contractor I come to find out one of those "experts" has his family out helping him wash. I missed that one in the book of professionalism.

I have heard things about myself through the vine. Most of the gossip is rooted in jealousy. I'm guilty of it too. I'm jealous that I missed the ball and didn't formalize a company to teach marketing. My primal instinct is to say, "oh that guy doesn't know what he is talking about".

Don't believe the hype, Tony. I went to your website and saw something that explained a lot. I know there is a lot of us and them division right now, just be your own mind and decide from whom you learn.

"Every man is my superior in that I may learn from him"

Now Ken,my wife works with me both in and out of the office.I also have a 15 yr old step daughter that has been out on fleet detailing jobs with us to earm her text messaging.She has since decided the chores around home are easier than working for me.

I have 3 children of my own(2 girls and a boy) that at some point will want to have something that I just won't want to pay for and they to will have the chance to earn it if they want.I think teaching them a good work ethic builds character.