How Can THIS Be Good For Business ??

[Apple Roof Cleaning 202]

Today, we did a search for roof cleaning Brandon Florida, just like a potential customer would probably do.

roof cleaning brandon florida - Google Search

Try it yourself, click the link ?

Of course, our web pages came up in the search, but scroll down about 4 to 5 spots ?

THEN LOOK ??

There is a thread from The Grime Scene that I started called "Roof Cleaners in Florida - Is it slow for you right now"

Any potential customer can click on this thread, and read it.

To make matters worse, someone asks me in this thread if he can go down to a swimming pool supply place and buy pool chlorine to use to clean a roof.

And, he asks if Pool Chlorine is the same as the recommended Sodium Hypochlorite.

Pretty soon, why is anyone going to need us anymore when we are teaching potential customers how to do it themselves ?

I wonder why this, and other forums can't be closed to the search engines, so we can continue to educate each other, without educating potential customers as well ?

Imagine Kentucky Fried Chicken getting on an Internet cooking forum, and spelling out exactly what the secret herbs and spices are, where to get them, and how to prepare the chicken too ?

Or, Microsoft putting the source code for Windows out in the public domain ?

[Russ Johnson 141]

Welcome to the internets...

[Don Phelps 85]

"The Police" know how to handle it.

Dont think me unkind

Words are hard to find

The only cheques Ive left unsigned

From the banks of chaos in my mind

And when their eloquence escapes me

Their logic ties me up and rapes me

De do do do, de da da da

Is all I want to say to you

De do do do, de da da da

Their innocence will pull me through

De do do do, de da da da

Is all I want to say to you

De do do do, de da da da

Theyre meaningless and all thats true

Poets, priests and poiticians

Have words to thank for their positions

Words that scream for your submission

And no ones jamming their transmission

cos when their eloquence escapes you

Their logic ties you up and rapes you

De do do do, de da da da

Is all I want to say to you

De do do do, de da da da

Their innocence will pull me through

De do do do, de da da da

Is all I want to say to you

De do do do, de da da da

Theyre meaningless and all thats true

Lyrics from "De Do Do Do, De Da Da Da"- The Police :cheers:

[bigchaz 157]

Yep looks like everyone will do their own roofs and you'll be out of business

Hope you can get another job

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Chris,

The DYI'ers will always be DIY'ers. People who want to hire someone will not care about what is out there too much, and it can actually work in your favor. As for locking down the BBS so you can't see the forums, how would the other contractors find us then?

This is a primary example of why we are so big on professionalism on these forums. It does no one any good if we all act like kids on any forum out there, your public will find you if they want to badly enough.

Beth

[Apple Roof Cleaning 202]

Chris,

The DYI'ers will always be DIY'ers. People who want to hire someone will not care about what is out there too much, and it can actually work in your favor. As for locking down the BBS so you can't see the forums, how would the other contractors find us then?

This is a primary example of why we are so big on professionalism on these forums. It does no one any good if we all act like kids on any forum out there, your public will find you if they want to badly enough.

Beth

I know we are in a catch 22 position between contractors finding us, and all our trade secrets being revealed.

And, I agree Professionalism is very important too.

But, whether we reveal our trade secrets in a professional way or not, the bottom line is they do get revealed in order to teach others, and can sometimes come back to bite us.

Alcoholics Anonoymous does not advertise, people seek them out.

The Grease Police is a locked forum, and I was reading that they are doing very well.

I have heard that several of the Grease Police guys like not having to "watch their back" by having their posts appear randomly on search engines.

[Mat Mulholland 14]

I've been wondering if this happened since I started reading these posts. In fact, I probably would not have started business the way I did without them. Having said that, you may now have figured out that this forum not only empowers the DIYers, but also promotes competition.

You are teaching the new generation of roof cleaners and power washers so that they can go in an low ball you.

Catch 22 at its finest.

[Tmrrptr 164]

Hey Mat,

I'm a construction worker, many years...

Somehow fell into painting for maybe last 5...

But they found out I had other skills so we kinda slimmed down on the paint only. Now we're on our own...

Got a baby HD washer that made fine improvement to clients projects.

So I decided, "This is GREAT! Let's get a REAL PWer..."

I Read the PW bb's for a couple weeks and got a BEcold 5.5@2500 which is great... but then I learned it's all about the chems.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing !

Then I learned more.

Especially here in CA... u gotta recover ur waste !

And I have been tagged by dirty water police before. well, the co was...

(I helped do the fix.)

Now, with a decent entry level machine, and some more knowledge, I'm nearly afraid to solicit, especially downtown commercial, for fear of violating water law!

Sure, a net surfer could pull quite a bit of info, but I think it might just make him/her more knowledgeable. My clients are making megabucks and don't have time for the down and dirty stuff... and sure don't want to deal with chems!

Lowball? Ha!

Here in CA we got some SERIOUS overhead!

I just want to provide full, comprehensive service at a good value to my clients...

r

[Apple Roof Cleaning 202]

I've been wondering if this happened since I started reading these posts. In fact, I probably would not have started business the way I did without them. Having said that, you may now have figured out that this forum not only empowers the DIYers, but also promotes competition.

You are teaching the new generation of roof cleaners and power washers so that they can go in an low ball you.

Catch 22 at its finest.

Really Mat, I am more scared of the DIY guy.

Or, the "wise guy" who says "I KNOW what you are using because it is posted on an Internet Forum"

These Internet Surfers find a thread showing up in the search results, see what they THINK you are using, calculate the chemical cost, and demand a deal.

At least the car dealer, when a customer knows the dealer invoice cost, gets a kickback from the manufacturer, or makes money off financing, selling extended warranty, etc.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Chris Chris Chris... thought you all about diy and spreadin the love sauce...

Maybe you got a point..maybe Beth right about professionalism..maybe we just watch what we say of our woes and challenges or keep for member only sections and if not then keep it real as if costomers are interviewing us all the time. If I understand correctly some places like the clubhouse are member only. If it is true that thread titles from such areas or actual posts show up on the searches then maybe the indexing procedures and/or access rights of the web crawlers that are used to do it could be limited from getting in there. I see no reason why potential contractor members would be targeted based on communications snooped on in the member only sections.

Beth, what you say about those showing up?..I don't know if they do or don't myself...If they do I think Appleman has a point.. :)

[aquabob 14]

you know it takes more than just chlorine to clean a roof...hoses,

pumps, etc etc...so what if the info of how is on the net, you can find info on how to build a house too but if someone wants to do it themselves they will, if you are busy enough cleaning roofs why worry about it?

[PRESSURE PACKED 14]

Really Mat, I am more scared of the DIY guy.

Or, the "wise guy" who says "I KNOW what you are using because it is posted on an Internet Forum"

These Internet Surfers find a thread showing up in the search results, see what they THINK you are using, calculate the chemical cost, and demand a deal.

At least the car dealer, when a customer knows the dealer invoice cost, gets a kickback from the manufacturer, or makes money off financing, selling extended warranty, etc.

you forgot, actually going on the roof

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Chris,

Many of us have been posting online for years, you included. This is not the only forum on the net that is viewable. There are more than I can count. You have been in the search engines for years and years now...

Beth

[RPetry 564]

Chris,

We do not clean roofs but only restore exterior wood. However, I doubt that makes a difference.

As Beth said, there will always be DIY'ers. And they will find information and help on TGS or numerous other web sites. I would rather they get good info and do a good job. Why? At least with wood, I'd guess at least half will call a contractor the next time. And if they prep their wood and stain with a quality product, makes our job easier 2 years down the road.

On the contrary, we have gotten numerous jobs just by participating in discussions here on TGS. Customers find my company here and call. My recent ( up and functioning 2/07 ) website gets numerous hits from TGS and is the #1 listing on Google search for service and local area criteria, mostly due from TGS thread search bots.

A lot more positives with little perceived negatives from our experience the past few years.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

It occurs to me that when times are slow, perhaps it is wise to tap into your current client base and offer more services. It would be so easy to add driveway and walkway washing, and house washing...and pool apron washing. A quick mailer to your database offering these services would add to your bottom line without much effort at all. I know you guys clean roofs, just like we clean wood, but we don't just do decks, we do other wood items. So if you clean the mildew off of roofing, why not go ahead and clean mildew and algae off siding or pool aprons? Just makes sense.

Beth

[Mountain View 14]

I wonder why this, and other forums can't be closed to the search engines, so we can continue to educate each other, without educating potential customers as well ?

I agree with Beth, the DIY'ers will be there whether TGS or any other board is on the net. I've always found it helpful for my customers to have all the knowledge about what I'm doing that they can. I go out of my way to let them know what and how I do what I do. I've found that they then have a better appreciation of the process and are even more likely to let a professional do the work rather than spend their valuable time and not getting as good of results. As with phone conversations, personal interaction, or on a bbs, professionalism is the key.

[Integrity Curb Appeal 64]

Chris,

If you find a link that comprimises your business, perhaps you could just open the link and edit the post. This should help, but you will never find all the links that come up in a search. It would be much easier to manage the exception than to change all the rules.

[Chappy 138]

Comon Chris, why would anyone do it themselves when everyone knows that Apple will clean any roof for $100.

Seriously, I have run into 80 and 90 year olds that pressure wash thier own roof, (seriously!) I have a friend that is maint. mgr at a retirement condo. Roof is 7 story flat with projections, dont know the arcitectural term, that are about 200 sf tiles. He stands on the flat part and pours pool chlorine down them.

if people have the money to clean them they will call us. if not theyll get a low ball company or theyll do it them selves.

[plainpainter 217]

The thing I don't like about the internet is when my customers educate themselves about painting and then won't leave me alone about stuff - oh, you can't paint in direct sun, you can't paint above 90 degrees, below 50 degrees, you can't stain damp wood - and on and on and on. Sometimes it makes me wonder who the painter is and who is the worker

[mas3372 14]

I agree that it stinks to have our customers able or researching us and our methods as much as they can but...

If someone wants to pay for the service, they are going to call around, get a few prices and hire someone.

If someone wants to do it themselves, they will do the research, read these boards and others and try it themselves. Perhaps do a good job, perhaps not and still hire someone.

Bottom Line, if they are doing the research as a DIY, they are not a probable customer anyways.

[Jeff 232]

Maybe I'll start a consulting service for the DIYer and I'll just stand on the ground and tell them how to clean the roof and when they fall, I'll only charge an extra 1 hr for making the call to 911. Man I come up with some great ideas

[Don Phelps 85]

Gotta make sure they've got the right equipment to do the job. :lgbugeyes

[PWkid 79]

A 12 volt pump and bleach and they are in business. lol

[Apple Roof Cleaning 202]

A 12 volt pump and bleach and they are in business. lol

Till they slip, fall, and break their DIY necks, LOL

[Apple Roof Cleaning 202]

Gotta make sure they've got the right equipment to do the job. :lgbugeyes

I Love It !~

[James 625]

I think Mr Apple has a point. The internet is a problem if your an innovator and leak idea's. I stopped posting idea's or telling people what I do unless it's one on one.

It's very hard to hold back and watch stupid information being giving. This media has to much power.

On the other hand I have learned the most form Mr Apple's post! Roofs were one thing I new Poop about