Low Ball, low balling.

[Jon 533]

The below is a quote from a post by Alan that truly needs to be given some serious discussions.

And the word Low balling is used so often and out of context, that we need to come up with a new word.

You guys and gals need to be at the forefront of this teminology "low baller" and get a word or way of describing someone that cuts prices or bids so low there might be very little profit in it.

Words like:

Cheaper sales

price cutter

low baller

uninsured/unlicensed

fly by night

week-end warrior

part timer

Those are just a few words that truthfully don't work, to improve the industry as a whole I encourge all of you to brainstorm on a way to describe what all of us at one time or another have dealt with, someone or some company cutting our prices so low we cannot compete against them.

Ok folks start your brains and remember when you list a word or sentence explain the reason you feel it should become the new industry standard to describe those people.

[Celeste 341]

Wannabees - They wannabee a company but don't have the equipment, overhead, required sense to be in business therefore only fly by the seat of their pants, devaluing the industry as a whole in their wake.

[Craig 111]

Walton Washer-

[Dave O 15]

How about #$%?"! %#+$$*

Just joking LOL

:lgangel: I'll be quiet

[Scott Stone 604]

I had Fleetwash call me a low baller once to a customer. They were actually taking over the account under a national contract. It was funny. The distribution manager looked at them, and told them, "I don't want you here. I have to have you, and you are charging more money than the guy whose work I have been totally satisfied with for 5 years. Just because you can only compete one way does not make him a lowballer."

I don't worry about low ballers. I worry about the guy that thinks he knows what he is doing.

Scott Stone

[PressurePros 248]

Goin' Outta Business Sale

[Craig 111]

Here's my point of view-

If you have so much time on your hands that you are worrying about "Low Ballers" then you are doing something wrong. Who honestly cares if someone else is charging more or less than you? I sure don't. My price is my price. It typically doesn't move and if someone doesn't have insurance, proper equipment, etc and they take a job that I may have gotten... God Bless them and good luck. As far as I'm concerned, we need lowballers to take away the customers that we wouldn't want to deal with in the FIRST PLACE.

If a customer wants to base his decision based on price that's his business, not mine. Cheap is rarely the least expensive option.

Instead of focusing your attention to customers you don't want in the first place, why not create some mailers or drive around the neighborhood and get some addresses. Take a yellow book out and make phone calls.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

And Craig scores! :dancing:

Beth

[Cleveland Mobile 14]

Fleetwash....there's a company full of bs........they also took over quite a few accounts for me under a national contract....supposed to pick up the water....In fact they say that they do but you never see it happen. I've since gotten back a few of the accounts because the customers told the leasing company either I wash them or they will seek out another leasing company for their vehicles. Fleetwash should pay more attention who they use as subcontractors...and by the way...they were the low ballers here.

Andy

[PressurePros 248]

Here's my point of view-

As far as I'm concerned, we need lowballers to take away the customers that we wouldn't want to deal with in the FIRST PLACE.

If a customer wants to base his decision based on price that's his business, not mine. Cheap is rarely the least expensive option.

Amen, brutha Craig!

[Jon 533]

Dave O, your compelled to SPEAK UP, we want to hear what you have to say and we will NOT let you off the HOOK!

That said Craig is right on with his points.

Now what I was trying to do here is not bring up a heated debate about those low ball prices some offer but to find a nice way to describe them when we post replies not only here but on every board there is, in other words form a NEW name for them.

Scott Stone also is right on when he said "don't worry about low ballers. I worry about the guy that thinks he knows what he is doing".

I used to bid high when I knew I did not want the job or if I got it they would end up paying my price.

[One Tough Pressure 580]

I usually call them hacks, or the blow and go special.

I view the "them" as someone who has no business sense at all. They have not a clue to what it takes to run a business, nor how to deal with customers.

When I approach a new customer or one comes to me, I take the time to educate them on their property, and the way I am going to clean it correctly.

I offer them details and many different packages that suit their needs, vs the competition who just wants them to sign on and has no real plan.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I can relate with Craig in his view, but it is true what Jon has mentioned about the stigma being attached to those who we dont feel are worthy yet, but worthy of what?

Trying to classify them as Jon has listed in his post doesnt help because it unfairly demeans anyone who fits the stigma regardless of the situation.

If you are looking for an applicable term, "Rogue" may apply to those who havent fulfilled the obligations of their state in the business requirements regardless of their experience or knowledge.

The term "Novice" according to banks, lending institutions, insurance carriers, and creditors, applies to new business venturers in the 1st 3-5 years becuase they pose a risk of faliure.

After that, we are at the risk of offending those whose experience, credentials and business size are as individual as fingerprints and should not be lumped into any one category. Many state beauracracies do that to plenty of us already.

As far as using these terms in conversation, I think they are useless and most likely to be considered offensive.

Setting any type of standard which imposes admonishment is not a good idea.

Rod~

[Howard 50]

I tend to agree (somewhat) with almost all comments made here. However, I just ask myself, why? Why do I need to place a tag on them at all? I feel that I have a full plate just taking care of, my customers, and promoting my business, and growing along the way. Maybe one day way off in the future after I've gotten so big and have lots of crews out working. Then maybe I'll have time to worry about the small guy, who is just starting out and don't have all the bells and whistles. Or the other guy that goes out spends 8 hours on a ladder, and washes a two story for beer money, who will only be around for one season (if that). No I think I'm too busy minding my own business to worry about someone elses.

Just my .02 worth

[PressurePros 248]

Having been around the pressure washing biz doing commercial work, residential and KEC for about 6 years I have stopped worrying about guys without a clue. They weed themselves out, usually before the end of a full season. All you have to do is look around at how many guys are selling relatively unused equipment. And these are guys that tried to do it right by coming to forums like this one. The promise of quick cash with minimal investment wil always draw the dreamers and hacks. Like Craid said, if you worry or complain about them, you are not doing enough to promote your own business.

[newlook 265]

Why even spend the time to try to think of a new name for a lowballer? Is giving them a new name going to position us legitimate companies in a better place with customers?

I concur with Craig on this.

[Jesse 15]

A Message From The Low Baller :lgwave:

Dear Cherished Customer,

Thank you for hiring us. We look forward to saving you a lot of money compared with all the other contractors who submitted quotes. As for your inquiry as to how we can charge so much less than everyone else, I welcome this opportunity to explain how we operate.

You see, unlike many of our competitors, we don't believe in paying top dollar to employees. There are so many people looking for work these days, it's pretty easy to find some desperate enough to work for far less than they're worth. If they start complaining, we just get rid of them and find replacements in a few days. Most jobs get disrupted just a little bit.

Besides, we don't look to hire the best workers. Most of the work required for your project can be performed by people with almost no skills. (In fact, if you care to do some of it yourself, I can save you even more money.) Heck, I've learned that some of the best employees don't even speak English. They work cheapest of all and never sass the boss. Most of the time they can figure out my hand signals telling them what to do. If anything complicated does arise, that's what I'm here for. It may take a few days for me to get around to check out your job, but with all the money you're saving, I'm sure you won't mind the wait.

Not only don't we pay our employees very much, we offer no benefits, because that adds way too much overhead. Our employees know that if they get sick and can't work, they don't make any money. So you can rest assured that they'll show up at your job even if they come down with pneumonia or TB.

I'll tell you something else, our installers and technicians work fast. A lot of contractors tell their crews to hang around jobs forever making sure everything is just right. Experienced as I am, I know exactly when something is just good enough to get by. That’s when we call it a job. Think of all the money you save with us, not worrying about all the frilly details.

Another thing is we know how to cut through all the government paperwork. Most rules and regulations make no sense. For instance, everyone in the construction industry knows that hardly anyone ever gets caught working without a permit or trade licenses. The money we save by avoiding these technicalities gets passed on to you. We also cut corners with code requirements and standards at every opportunity. Standards do nothing but jack up the price of a project. By substituting cheaper materials and ignoring labor- intensive procedures required to meet code, we are able to charge much less than those suckers who operate by the book.

Insurance is another area where we realize big savings. How many jobs do you ever hear of where there’s a payoff? Insurance is nothing but money down the drain. If something does go wrong, you can always sue us. What more protection do you need than that?

I’ll let you in on another inside secret. We cleverly save you money by not paying all of our bills. Our company has accounts at about a dozen supply houses around town, and we never pay for material unless we absolutely have to. Most wholesalers will carry us for sixty or ninety days before they start nagging me about payment. Then I can usually string them along for another few months with promises or token payments. If one supplier cuts us off, I simply take my business to the others and go through the same routine. It’s a game that real sharp contractors like myself have refined to an art form. You ought to be proud to have you job done by an artist?

Something else that separates us from the pack is that we’re not a bunch of namby- pambies hung up on safely concerns. Accidents will happen so why bother trying to prevent them? Some contractors worry more about their trades people getting hurt than they do about getting the job done fast. Believe me--hard hats, eye shields, and work gloves only slow people down. So we don’t supply those things to our workers. Here’s where we gain another advantage by hiring a bunch of people who don’t speak English. They can’t read warning signs that might make them too cautious. This saves you money.

Also, I’m sure you noticed that when you called me, you reached an answering machine, not some secretary costing over $10,000 a year. Sorry that it took me so long to get back to you, but that’s the price you pay for saving money. You may have also noticed that our trucks are run-down, our tools worn out, and this letter is being written on a 1950’s vintage manual typewriter. Our philosophy is to make do with whatever is already paid for, no matter how old. That’s another reason we can charge you so much less.

Nor do we waste money on association dues and educational seminars like some of our high-fluting competitors. Believe me, I’ve been in this business for more than 20 years and I learned everything anyone needs to know in my first two years of apprenticeship. If it was good enough for my daddy and granddaddy, it’s good enough for you.

By the way, did I mention that we guarantee our work? Just make sure you catch what’s wrong before the job is done, because at the prices we charge, we can’t afford any callbacks. Thank you once again for letting us do your work. We are happy to be the low bidder. I’m sure you’ll get your money’s worth.

Sincerely,

The Low Baller :)

[Jon 533]

Looks like I have to find a small shack (no offense Alan) to live in out in the Palm Springs area and get back into the business so I can teach Craig a few tricks of the trade, like how to charge more and make it look like your charging less!

Jesse so now we know who you really ARE LOL.

Cute letter.

[Barry M 73]

I don't like pinning a name on people it feels like I'm degrading them and I'm not perfect either. But I know the word lowballer has been a long standing term that describes the type of business owners we are talking about and I don't think you'll ever change that word or know why you'd want to.

These type of people are people just like you and me, who have stubbled upon an industry that shows the potential of making a lot of money. We all became interested for a reason and I'm guessing most of us did for the money. The only difference is that they are misguided and lack direction. They don't network or have mentors, they just see money and go. Without a business plan and being the new kid on the block it is just human nature to undercut the competition in order to get work. If guided or taught most of them would do a complete 180, but they don't belong to a network of PWers like we do.

So just for the sake of conversation involving one of these people I do agree you need to call them something. Having just watched Rudolph with my daughter I say we call them Misfits. The definition of misfit is 'A person who is not adjusted to his environment'. And it's not too harsh a word, now if there was only an island we could send them to......the island of misfit powerwashers. LOL

[Jarrod 22]

Jesse, that letter is priceless! Who wrote that?

[Jesse 15]

It was posted over on contractortalk.com last week. I still get a chuckle every time I think about that post because I see so many contractors that are just like that. :) I couldnt wait to share it over here and get a good laugh. :)

These guys really do think that they have it all figured out and that we are just screwing our customers.:stupid:

[Craig 111]

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I want to send out a direct mail piece with that and title it,

"A message from a Power Washing Competitor."

I just met my competition the other day. His name (unfortunately!) is Craig as well as mine! He's driving a 1989 toyota truck pulling a 4x6 trailer. On the trailer was nothing but an old cold water washer (dirty and rusty). In the back of his truck must have been 10 gallons of Hydrochloric Acid. I've seen a number of driveways ruined because of his inexperience.

[Jon 533]

MISFITS, was that not the name of a movie Marilyn Monroe was in?

[PressurePros 248]

showin your age now, Jon.

[timbertramp 14]

Seems to be a major problem for some. It's interesting to listen to the comments. Small trailer, cold water machine, low baller. I agree that people should have the knowledge, business plan and required permits to do a job. I was just wondering how many of you started out with all of the equipment you have now, the knowledge, the business plan and if you ever low balled a job when you were starting out. Please understand, I am not accusing, just asking. Kem

[PressurePros 248]

Kem, the equipment has very little to do with it in my opinion. It's when someone sells solely on price. A lowballer will follow you on an estimate and tell the potential customer, "Oh you got a proposal from PressurePros? He's high, I know I will beat his price" The lowballer makes the customer think he is getting the same job, the same attention to detail, the same insured company with a good reputation when, in fact, the customer is getting a guy that cuts corners and makes the playing field unfair. If the guy does have a good work ethic and just likes to work harder instead of smarter, slowly but surely I will continue to make more money and spend more on advertising taking the lion's share of the market.. It's a LOSE/LOSE selling on price.

I can only speak for myself but -yes, I had a business plan, no I never offered my services based upon price ( I leave that to guys that don't know how to sell) and I made sure I was properly capitalized when I started. There is nothing wrong at all with starting out with a 4 gpm cold water machine. It's all I would ever need on most jobs I do.

If one starts undercapitalized, under equipped, with no skill at selling, and no business plan I'd say that person would end up as a statistic -----> 85% of start up companies fail within three years.