$175 House Wash

[John Doherty 126]

Here is the ad running around by my Dad in Central NJ

Powerwashing of any house, single family, up to 3,000 sqft - $175, Reg $300, includes free gutter cleaning (add'l charge to remove gutter screens). In biz since 1989, etc...

So do you think this is a 'keep the guys busy during the slowest summer month' or is there maybe some kind of upsell, or????

That's gotta be a real tough price to stay in business with, any comments?

JD

[Adrian 155]

I have handed out almost 500 flyers this week running 100.00 single story cleanings in my immediate neighborhoods ( 5 mile radius) with only a few bites. I'm freakin desperate for work. My 2 news paper ads are a little more risky at 125.00 for ANY house in the metro area (Atlanta). I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but I do great work and the fish still aren't biting. I upsell after I get onsite and hope for the best.

It's very hard to get the right demograph. I mean, some people don't even realize how dirty their driveway is until it is pointed out to them. I am focusing on resi's since the new x-jet has made life a little easier for me.

[Jeff Robison 14]

No wonder you are broke!! (referring to another post) Don't lower your price to that level. You can never make it up on volume. $100.00 is absurd for Atlanta. I rarely quote below $250.00 for residential, often much higher. I have landed 21 of the 23 residentail quotes that I have quoted. Raise your prices, raise your quality, raise your quality of life, raise the money for the hot water skid. People in Atlanta have the money to spend 250.00 on a house cleaning.

$100.00 just sounds cheap and actually might be driving away customers. What kind of quality would you expect from a place that advertised $4.99 oil change for a car? Not much and I wouldn't take my car there in the first place.

Jeff Robison

678-360-2518

[Degraffreed 21]

I agree with Jeff, we both are in the Atlanta area. AC, you will be out of biz in less than 6 month if you continue your current course. Atl demographic will handle a min of a $200.00 up to $350.00( in my area,) housewash.

Man your working for free at $ 100.00 per unit. Figure you cost of material to be on the high end of 15-20 buck in Chems, Plus fuel, diesel if you have a hot unit. Plus on a average two story home, it takes about 1.5-2 if your detailed. Now figure you labor in at about $80.00-90.00 and hour.

What did you make on a $100.00 housewash maybe $20.00 == OUT OF BIZ.

AC raise your prices up slightly to around $175.00,see if they bite then the next home raise it to $195.00, see if they bite and so on until you see what the market will bear.

Pick up a PT job in the meanwhile and you do not have to take those low dollar jobs to make ends meet. I was in your shoes less than a year ago. I know what your feeling. It gets better as YOU get better. Do not shortchange yourself and the others in the BIZ.

[big mike 14]

I agree, a $100 housewash is way too low. I wouldn't even consider a contractor that came in at a rediculously low price. I tell potential clients up front that I'm not going to be the low bid. I do tell them that they can expect professional results and will not be disappointed with the money they spend. It works for me. I was able to resign from a $24 an hour job and run my business full time. NEVER SETTLE and don't give up!!;)

[Jeff Robison 14]

Another thing to consider is referrals at $100.00. People ask what others paid for a service. If I did one house for 100.00 the neighbor will ask and also expect the 100.00 wash. Down the road you start cutting quality to make a few dollars more on the 100.00 wash. When your quality suffers then you get no referrals. It really is a downhill spiral. I will work a little on price when a homeowner objects to the quote, but maybe 25 bucks and tell them I won't scrub the gutters etc. We both end up happy.

Also you have to make enough for other things such as advertising, insurance, new tools, equipment etc. When you clean for 100.00 you are just making enough to live, not to grow your business and prosper.

I will tell you Degraffeed and I both have GOOD full time jobs and that makes it a little easier to have higher prices and walk away from the low paying jobs.

I am just a part time guy with less than $30,000 in sales so far this year, not acting like some big shot, just telling you that higher prices will bring you more business and more profits in the long run.

My dad once told me this and it has always stuck in my head. "The highest price guy rarely, rarely goes out of business" They have the best equipment, best advertising, work less and make more than just about anyone else. They focus on quality first and that normally gets them more business than they can handle, then they raise their price even more to weed out the customers they do not want.

Just think about Cadillac, Rolex, and many other brands that follow this philosophy. They all do very well.

The lowest price guys are working harder for less money and get burned out, can't afford new equipment, and just walk away from the business. This and my other post were not meant to be a slam in any way shape or form. Just food for thought. Most of my thoughts also pertain to residential work. I do very little commercial because of time restraints. I would like to book more commercial work, but I think it would be just to meet expenses and really profit off the higher residential end. I had a guy kind of balk at a quote of 550.00 on a 500,000 house the other day. I said you are not willing to spend 1/10 of one percent of your biggest investment to keep it cleaned and maintained, he thought for a second and then said I was absolutely right and I got the job.

Jeff Robison

Titan Exterior

678-360-2518

[Adrian 155]

Jeff, Degraffed, and Big Mike,

Very good advice from all of you. Thanks in advance. The ads are a trial run to see what it draws. Your points are well taken and not offensive at all. That's why I like the grime scene better than any other forum. Some of the points you mentioned are exactly what I am experiencing at this very moment. Week to week hand to mouth.

On the other hand, some think my rates are too high, so it is kind of catch 22.

But that is very sound advice and one can't really work with great pride at low ball ( I hate that term) rates. So back to the drawing board, I guess. I will try to fall somewhere in the middle of the competitors. So long long as no one is calling me a dummy or idiot or rolling their eyes I am good with whatever you guys have to say.

I mean, I started out with no help or advice and have at least survived up to this point,so fire away guys. I've beat cancer and and arm reconstruction surgery and as long as no one is taking shots at me about my practices, say whatever you want. I kind of look at the p.w. business like a couple of Harley's passing each other on the freeway..... they always wave at each other, like a private club. Although I am not looking for a black eye, I do however always appreciate the "wave " that all have given me on this forum. Your help is always duely noted and once again I will revamp my operations dept.

Take care and thanks.

Adrian

[PressurePros 248]

There are always going to be people that think you are too high, no matter what you charge. Let the guys with the Walmart mentality handle them. The customers that shop for price have zero loyalty. They will go with the next guy if he is ten cents cheaper.

I agree with the above posters. You may be devaluing your company by offering such below market prices. I too would not even give you a shot. Also you have to understand a couple of things. Your first year is hand to mouth. Most guys are lucky to clear 15k. Second, people are especially wary of contractors with no track record. As they kep seing your name in print, the recognition will come. The advise about getting a part time job is sound. Hang in there, Adrian.

[Adrian 155]

After some research, i.e. looking through the some 200 plus p.w. firms in the Atlanta "Real Yellow Pages", my rates , even my specials are above the norm.

Now I don't feel so bad. Although I have generally investigated the rates in my county,

after seeing this ( most with no coupons ) I feel in my mind that I am just as competative as the next guy. Some of the Georgia firms on this forum please check my findings by looking for yourself. I just can't reel in the biz. I am only in my counties yellow pages (not the big book) but just the same I called a few of these larger firms to see how business was so far this Summer. Most of the replies were from very slow to steady.

Of course that doesn't change the financial side of things for me but at least I know now that my rates are fair to average and when it's all said and done we will all huddle in a cardboard box community downtown under a bridge. Hey , at least I still have my sense of humor.

So Hats off to you guys who are getting the big bucks for resi's and commercial work.

The Gods are smiling on you.

Have a great day all, I'm off to collect some tin cans,lol

Adrian

[JohnW 14]

Hey Adrian,

Thought I might chime in with Jeff and Degrafreed, I too am in Atlanta, Fayetteville to be exact. I've been part time since 2003. I have a decent full time job, but quite honestly all of my work comes from just talking to people. I'd say maybe 2 jobs have come from people seeing my sign on my truck, out somewhere. Most of my jobs are north of Atlanta and probably half in Cobb. I'd recommend in addition to advertising, start talking to people. I've struck up conversations with people and you come to find out that they either know someone or they, themselves need the work done, but have just not thought about it. When you stop at a gas station or a fast food establishment, if you see the manager, ask them who does their property cleaning. You'd be surprised what kind of response you get. Anyways, nonetheless, if I can ever be of help to you, drop me a line. Good luck!

John W.

Superior Pressure Washing

Atlanta, GA

[Adrian 155]

Hey John,

Thanks man for the support. So you're the getting all my jobs in Cobb county huh? lol just kidding man. Yea I never shut up about my firm and have a 3 foot rule .....

If you are within 3 feet you get a business card. I get your point as well about just talking to people. It just seems that alot of people just don't want to part with the green. But I am not swayed and I feel confident that things will pan out. I just want to be busy EVERYDAY. Thanks for the offer as well. A good friend of mine lives in Fayettville too. He's got a pretty solid P.W. firm and is usu. busy all the time and even he said he is slow right now. So it goes and comes I guess. Well, gotta run and collect some more tins cans, I almost have enough to get a gallon of milk. lol

take care.

Adrian

[tropical wave 22]

I do however always appreciate the "wave " that all have given me on this forum. Adrian

heres a "wave" from Trop Wave..... :cool: hang in there, keep plugging away.

[Mike Williamson 198]

I have handed out almost 500 flyers this week running 100.00 single story cleanings in my immediate neighborhoods ( 5 mile radius) with only a few bites.

What type of neighborhoods are these? I've found that working middle class older neighborhoods are NOT good sources of work, at least here in Gainesville. I may pick up a few jobs throughout the year in neighborhoods like that, but for the most part, money is too tight for most there to afford a couple hundred bucks to clean their house. They're more concerned with keeping the lights on and keeping the repo guy away.

Find neighborhoods where there are a lot of lawn care and/or pest control companies companies working. Find new neighborhoods with upper middle class homes (here that'd be homes prices $200k and up, but I'm sure that would be different in the Atlanta area). The best luck I've had in generating work is in this type of neighborhood, where the houses are between 5 and 10 years old.

One tactic I have used with quite a bit of success in the past two years is to find a neighborhood like I've mentioned with houses all pretty much the same size. I then do a mailing to the entire neighborhood, offering a neighborhood discount for a specific period of time (say a three week period). I set the prices for each job (housewash, roofwash, driveway). Yes, sometimes I wind up with a slightly larger house or driveway and don't make as much as I'd like on that job, but for the most part it works out well. These aren't just flyers, they're full color one page letter (front and back) on letterhead introducing myself, explaining what I'm doing and why, explaining the services I offer, how I do the work in a safe manner, etc, and setting prices. They're sent out in regular window envelopes with a full color return address logo, so they look more like something the homeowner should open rather than simply being discarded as junk mail. Someone who might not normally even look at junk mail will open this thinking "what is this??" They're individually addressed to each homeowner.

Each mailer costs me about $0.57 including postage. A 200 home neighborhood costs $114.00 and a couple hours labor to print, fold, stuff, stamp and mail. Out of 200 homes, I'll get anywhere between 5 and 25 responses, depending on the neighborhood and the time of year. The nice thing is, I don't have to go give estimates for these. They have the price already, and most of the time they're calling to schedule. I often see the house for the first time when I'm pulling up to complete the job (though I HAVE driven through the neighborhood several times to get a feel for the houses and to make sure there won't be any horrible surprises).

The names and addresses of the homeowners should be available either online or on disk from the property appraiser's office in your county. If you don't want to spend the money on postage, you could deliver them door to door.

Most importantly, keep the prices up! I'd rather wash 3 $200.00 houses than wash 6 $100.00 houses.

I'm freakin desperate for work. My 2 news paper ads are a little more risky at 125.00 for ANY house in the metro area (Atlanta). I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but I do great work and the fish still aren't biting. I upsell after I get onsite and hope for the best.

I agree with others' assessments...your prices are too low, and to offer a set price for ANY house tells the homeowner that you're either a hack, or you're running a gimmick. I realize you're not, but the homeowner doesn't know that. Leave the prices out of the ads. What if someone calls with a 7000 square foot three story house that's going to take you 6 hours, 20 gallons of chlorine, and 5 gallons of soap? Are you going to honor the $125.00 price?

I'd be more than happy to email you the forms I use for my letter mailers, as well as the postcard I use. shoot me an email to mike@northfloridapressurewashing.com if you're interested. I can explain a little more about how I get the addresses and get them into the letters. It takes about 15 minutes to download them, clean them up, and import them into the letter template and have them ready for printing.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

JD,

My thoughts are quanitity over quality are what the ad implies.

Doing gutters in addition to washing a house for that price may keep the guys busy, but I dont see much profit in the price for the amount of time they may spend doing all that set up and ladder work/moving. As a consumer, if I were comparing services, I would wonder why someone was doing it so cheaply and be concerned about the quality and most importantly how well they would treat my property in the process. Would my plants suffer? Would they use a strong chemical that could cause damage to my siding?

These are all some examples of the same questions that consumers ask of us and I am just passing them on for consideration.

Rod~

[Adrian 155]

Hi Mike,

they are middle class homes that average 20 to 40 years old. They are close to my home area. I have been tagging single stories. I have gotten my clean time down to about 1.5 hours for that type.

I did have a church in that area call about one of my fliers and they understand that I cannot clean it for that rate. I gave them a good bid nonetheless and hopefully will get the go ahead shortly.

I have not gone the route of mailers like you suggested. But am very interested in the process and especially in seeing your fliers. Thx for that. I will also be going to pick up my book that I had to order from Barnes and noble today entitled Guerilla marketing High profits for low investments. That one was suggested by RC Bill. I can't wait to get my hands on that.

I agree with the class level of neighborhoods you mentioned. It is kind of a pilot program I am experimenting with. One advantage is that i'm burning plenty of calories by hand delivering the fliers.

Not to dispute anyone's advice on raising the rates, but mine are pretty dog gone close to what the major advertised competitors are offering in the phone yellow pages.

Others are even lower.

One firm took the approach that said " my ad is small so it saves you money" 85.00 house was the rate.

I think a key point in this area is to do upselling once onsite.

I did upsell a two story house wash the other day by 400.00 after adding the drive and sidewalk and doing the front entry for free.

It just seems I am doing an unusual amount of scampering in these neighborhoods for very little results. Not to mention I hate dogs running after me.

So I feel that you may have a valid point to the upper scale neighborhoods. The feeling I just can't deal with is that of a homeowner with a very nice house (and pricey) that feels I am asking too much for a wash. I don't feel my rates are too high or low ( I think alot of us bid according to what we see in the job) We offer price reductions that usually tap into profit margins instead of operating expenses, I know I do anyway. It doean't really cost alot to clean a single story. My ideology in the single stories is that I can do more of them in a short amount of time. But , like you said I might be fishing in the wrong lake,lol.

At any rate the advice is heeded, and I will set some time aside this weekend to email you about your fliers. Truely am interested in that book as well. I think it is geared for guys just like me.

I wish I could get my pc to highlight the quoted areas of your responses, but it never seems to work.

off to battle.

Have a great moring.

Adrian

[PressurePros 248]

I have not gone the route of mailers like you suggested.

Standard sized postcard mailers are the cheapest and most effective way to advertise. It's a little bit of an initial expense having it designed and printed but you can do like Mike W mentioned in a previous post and hand adress a certain demographic and start with 500 at a time.

Not to dispute anyone's advice on raising the rates, but mine are pretty dog gone close to what the major advertised competitors are offering in the phone yellow pages.

Others are even lower.

I'm just going to be blunt here. Continue on your path competing with "major advertised competitors" and you will be out of business very quickly. At best, you will come to hate working your azz off and making pennies. If I decided to open a hardware store, how well would I do matching Home Depot's prices? The key would be to offer specialized knowlege and customer service to legitimize my higher prices, not price matching and hoping the people just roll in.

So I feel that you may have a valid point to the upper scale neighborhoods. The feeling I just can't deal with is that of a homeowner with a very nice house (and pricey) that feels I am asking too much for a wash.

These same people you worry about offending are, in all likelihood, professional people: lawyers, doctors, CPA's. Do you think they worry about hurting someone's feelings when they dish up their rates? Or, is it more likely they are confident that the service they offer to their customers is worth every penny? One rule of thumb in sales.. Do not sell with your own ideals (ie pocketbook) in mind. Just because you wouldn't pay a certain price for something high end does not mean there aren't plenty of people that will.

I recommend every business owner attend seminars on the art of selling and practice practice practice. If you can sell yourself with confidence you can be successful in whatever endeavor you choose. If you are truly asking for advice, Adrian, then consider that advice before you argue it.

Human beings will justify non-action for anything which is unpleasant. It is those that can step outside of these limitations ("I can't do it", "I'm afraid", "My market won't bear it") and do whatever it takes to succeed that become industry leaders and become financially independant.

[Jeff Robison 14]

I agree alot with Pressure Pros. Make the customer realize the cost difference. Many times I will go to the local ACE Hardware versus the Home Depot simply because I can get service and knowledge of how to do something. If it simply involves buying something I am 100% familiar with I may go to Home Depot to save money on materials. Sell your self, company and show that you have pride in your work and are worthy of the higher rates. I see the same ads you do in Atlanta $99, $85, 169 any size house. Do you think these guys are really making any money or just working their selfs to death and not much to show for it.

Also pursue every job as an opportunity to earn more business through referrals. I always leave a yard sign when I have done a job. Yes they cost me $12.00 a piece, but what if I get a neighbor or two and make 700-900. I always give 5 business card magnets to the homeowner($2.00). Often if it is a new neighborhood that I have not worked in I write down the addresses of 30-50 ($15-25) neighbors and send a letter that states I did work for ..... and would like to introduce our company with a neighborhood special (similar to Mike since most houses are close to the same size) Often I spend as much in pursuing other jobs as I do on chemicals and gas for a job.

If I were a homeowner I would just get mad if someone advertised for $99 then tried to upsell me driveway, walkway, patio, gutters etc. Sounds more like a bait and switch. I used a carpet cleaning company recently that advertised for $59 entire house. When he got there he tried everything from spot cleaning, deodorizing, truck mounted versus the small piece of crap he pulled out, on and on. When I told him just the $59 job he acted mad and had a crappy attitude. I just told him to leave and forget it. He only wanted the upsells and it made me upset and him. Just give a good fair price upfront, do quality work, get referrals, and soon you will be laughing about the slow times of summer 2005.

Jeff Robison

Titan Exterior

678-360-2518

[Adrian 155]

Great advice gentlemen,

and thankyou. I can't begin to think of how much $$ I have saved through this forum.

Especially after re- upping my local yellow pages ad this morning. My sales rep was alot like the 59.00 carpet guy. she suggested a larger ad space and also to go national with my ad for alot more money than I have in my ad budget. realistically as much as I would like to have national space or a larger ad space locally what really is the likelihood of getting any calls from another state when this market is so saturated?

I explained to her I want what I want and can afford at this point , not what she wants. Her Cadillac payment is not my problem (just guessing) , but the attitude certainly changed after that. I got what I want though.

But , I will start reflecting, my pride and professionalism with my rates, as well as my demographics and areas. I see the vital importance of that now. I will be in the wood shed with my new marketing book this weekend. I cannot help but think about my home town of Austin and a young man who started his home based business from his garage making computers and peripherals. Michael Dell has really done alright for himself. I am sure if he thought of only the perameters of his garage he would not be where he is today. Not trying to be a lowballer guys, really. But I have to weed out some of the advice of others who say bid low or bid high. I have to measure with integrity as well as ability and professionalism. So you can see where I get a bit confused at times. I don't know if it was just beginners luck or what, but when I started a year ago (having that fired up feeling) I was landing 300.00 single story jobs.

Somehow a seed krept in my head that I was ripping these people off. Even though they showed no remorse at the time and were very pleased with my work. It is not them that have to suffer the trials I am going through right now. Afew good high paying jobs outweigh a lot of low paying jobs with much more physical effort involved. I ain't a spring chicken anymore.lol

once again, Thanks to the coolest forum in the universe.

Adrian

[John Doherty 126]

Thanks Rod, that's what I was thinking.JD

[CCPC 26]

I found that the best marketing and adver., though more expensive, is exclusive adver. Take Mike's advice, the direct mail avenue is one of the best things I ever did for my business, and now its one of the the only forms of adver. I do besides a 1" ad in my local yellow pages. The problem with yellowpages (at least around here) is its to saturated. How do you expect to stand out, or claim much notice when you are surrounded by 100 other pressure washing companies all trying to do the same thing you are, which is get the propective customer's attention. It just doesn't work, especially in a saturated market such as yours. 90% of my work comes from my mailers, and refferals of people who I sent mailers. Once you take the initail blow of spending the money to get started, it will grow out of control like a snow ball rolling down a hill, getting bigger and building speed. I just sent out about 800 postcards and later this afternoon I will be sending out around 800 more. All my mailers go to carfully choosen communites, most being the high end gated communities in my area, which is also a plus because these gated communities are free of hacks dropping off flyers door to door, so the only competion is the other (established) outfits who charge similarly to what I charge. But the big advantage of this adver. is, your mailer is much more likely to get attention because the H.O. isn't recieving it with 100 other mailers from pressure washing businesses (just like yellowpages). I'm not saying the yellowpages are a bad idea, but I use them mainly as a place where people can find my specific company information, maybe from a refferal that didn't get my number or something.

[Adrian 155]

Lance,

I understand your point and am leaning towards those directions mentioned.

I don't really consider myself a hack either. I am just doing what I can afford to do at this point in time.

I do have one advantage in the yellow pages concerning a saturated market whatever the ad size is. Alot of people may not want to browse through the umpteen million P.W. firms in my area and ABC Pressure washing is the very first ad under that category. So at least I have that working for me. Plus I know the company name sounds very generic ( kinda like a road runner cartoon and ACME explosives) but the reason I chose that name is because it is my initials and as far as marketing goes it does put me in the top listing.

I am willing to try anything I can afford at this point in time, and am doing whatever I can. Unfortunatley to some , I look like the hack or low baller that many speak of.

But really i'm not. I'm just a guy trying to keep his biz afloat.

I am starting to agree with what someone said on another post about the terminology tossing. We are who we are and that's all I am. But I will leave that one alone.

I am just trying to do whatever it takes to survive in this industry and gain a reputable name.

Thanks for the help, I will investigate the rates on mailers.

Also am reading some marketing strategies as well.

But as most would agree, it's the initial purchase that has to show some results before we sink more money into that plan and I can only afford to try one plan at a time.

Have a great weekend

Adrian

[CCPC 26]

Adrian, I wasn't calling you a hack. I was just trying to stress the point of being as exclusive as possible, even if it costs a little more, it will reap greater rewards in the long run. What I was getting at is if you target your marketing in this way you have a better chance of being noticed by prospective clients, and becasue your not over shadowed by other outfits offering $85 house washes, you stand a better chance of getting paid what you deserve for your services.

[Mike Williamson 198]

I found that the best marketing and adver., though more expensive, is exclusive adver. Take Mike's advice, the direct mail avenue is one of the best things I ever did for my business, and now its one of the the only forms of adver. I do besides a 1" ad in my local yellow pages. The problem with yellowpages (at least around here) is its to saturated. How do you expect to stand out, or claim much notice when you are surrounded by 100 other pressure washing companies all trying to do the same thing you are, which is get the propective customer's attention.

I agree completely here...How you approach yellow pages advertising depends on where you're at. Here, there aren't any real competitors, so it is easy to be the dominant ad in the book. In a market like Orlando or Atlanta, I imagine that there are a LOT of ads, so it is much harder to be noticed. Then you have the problem with distance. If you're in Douglasville and are advertising in the Atlanta book, I would imagine you'd get a lot of calls from areas that are really too far away. It isn't cost effective to drive an hour one way to give a free estimate, then drive another hour one way to get the job done.

In the books here, when you open them to pressure washing my ad jumps out. If there were a large number of large ads, I'd definitely scale it back and seek other means of getting the phone to ring.

[racechaser 64]

There are a couple of things you should always remember.

Rule# 1----Profit is not a dirty word or something you should be ashamed in trying to make when in business for yourself!!!

Rule #2----A good deal is a state of mind!!!

Rule #3----Only you know the time,effort, and expense to be in business!!

[i don't know if it was just beginners luck or what, but when I started a year ago (having that fired up feeling) I was landing 300.00 single story jobs.

This was when you didn't know any better and were happy because you gave them a good job and they were happy with the job you gave them!!!

Somehow a seed krept in my head that I was ripping these people off.

Remember rules #1&3????

Even though they showed no remorse at the time and were very pleased with my work.

Isn't it funny how rule # 2 works????

A few good high paying jobs outweigh a lot of low paying jobs with much more physical effort involved.

See, here you remember rule #3.Why here????Why don't you remember #3 when you CONFIDENTLY give them your estimate????It is here talking about low balling when you remember your yellow page ads expense,the rising cost of fuel,the time it took to pass out 250 fliers in the neighborhood, the copy expense of 250 fliers,the trip to give the estimate,the trip back to do the job,the time to unroll the hose, time to do job,time to roll up hose,time to present bill and talk to client,time to drive home and oh yeah and the trip to bank to cash the $100.00 check so you can pick up groceries on your way home.

REMEMBER THESE WHEN GIVING YOUR ESTIMATE!!!!!!!!!NEVER PASS THE CHANCE TO EXPLAIN RULE#3 TO CLIENT( when they complain about prices)!!!!!!!!!!!

lol

once again, Thanks to the coolest forum in the universe.

Yes it is one great forum!!!!!!! Thanks Beth and all the fellow members.

Hope this helps

Scott

[racechaser 64]

One day I'll figure the quote thing out.Sorry the last post was cluttered.

Scott

[CCPC 26]

One day I'll figure the quote thing out.Sorry the last post was cluttered.

Scott

Scott, the quote link as at the bottom right hand corner of a persons post. If you only want to use a certain part of the post, just cut out the parts you don't want.