How NOT to clean a deck

[PressurePros 249]

Previously posted was a video showing a company using hot water and a surface cleaner to clean a deck.

[steve r 14]

That hot is really furring up the wood lol .What an idiot a

[CCPC 26]

Yeah, I thought that I would use the hot to help speed things up. That one took me about 45 minutes to clean. :lgkick:

[steve r 14]

Yeah, I thought that I would use the hot to help speed things up. That one took me about 45 minutes to clean. :lgkick:

You know better .and at that using hot water .whats up doc

[Mike Williamson 198]

all proceeds from this video go to the K.E.G Preservation Society.

http://www.apluscleans.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/100_0089.mov

(yes that's steam coming from under that surface cleaner)

Where'd you find this video?

Here's a question for all you wood care experts...Would any type of heated water be appropriate for deck cleaning, even if you turn the burner way down?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

In my opinion, no.

Beth

[RogerG 14]

Hi Mike, I just stripped a deck yesterday and I used warm water. The temp was around 47 degs out and I set the burner at the lowest setting (86 degrees). The only place that furred up was on the pickets but it was't bad.

Roger

[PressurePros 249]

Doing research yesterday on websites. It's actually a bigger company up here in PA that's been around for awhile.

Mike I have never had occasion to use heated water as it raises the grain something fierce. The only scenario I could see using warmer water would be using WoodTux Wet to seal on a fall day when I maybe wanted to heat the wood up a bit. Even then I would be wary of making the wood swell.

[Mike Williamson 198]

Hi Mike, I just stripped a deck yesterday and I used warm water. The temp was around 47 degs out and I set the burner at the lowest setting (86 degrees). The only place that furred up was on the pickets but it was't bad.

Roger

That's the kind of situation I'm referring to...where you're just trying to get the water slightly above freezing!

So the colder the water, the less it'll fur up (aside from any chemical effects)?

[JFife 14]

.....another difference between the eastern guys and the western guys. It astounds me how different the methods are from one side of the country to the other. I talk to many contractors in the west frequently, and nearly ALL of them use hot water for stripping (most are involved in home restoration). Get this.....I know guys that ONLY use rotary nozzles for restoring wood. No chems at all. Sounds crazy, but........if chems "damage" the wood, then why not just damage it with pressure, and avoid stripping paint, killing plants, etching glass, etc?? Besides, to look decent you have to buff/polish/sand the wood anyways.........

IMO, it is always good to consider other methods and analyze them without bias (not referring to PP's pic, I couldn't open it). I think those in the east use methods that have essentially been taught/created by those making products for the particular application. To "water blast" a deck would not be profitable for them. So you create chems to do the job, "spin" info to propegate the idea that water/hot water damages wood, but chems do not, and you enhance the market for your products. Not trying to be a conspiracy theorist, but there are people that get some mighty fine results doing things differently than a PWNA wood course would suggest. Just some thoughts.

[wesley 15]

I have to agree with Jon Fife. I only do a few decks a year, and I strip,neutrlize/brighten using the proper chems. After seeing that clip Im begining to ask myself why not. On a true restoration project the wood looks so much better after sanding so why not do it like the clip showed? There is a company in my area called Sealmaxx and they do all their decks this way and the final results are awesome. The warranty on the seal, well that is another thread.

Please dont rip me apart to bad, just asking.

[bforbis 14]

I would like to respectfully submit an "OUT OF THE BOX" suggestion/alternative/tool that I tried on my deck.

My deck is old and in bad condition. A couple of years ago before I did any pressure washing/deck or research on the how to's etc I applied a solid acrylic deck coating. The color was what my girl friend wanted....so I went with.

A few weeks ago I had some time to strip and clean. I have been using warm water and sometimes hot on tough sections. Yes I got fur flying, but thought that was the norm as I got it no matter hot, cold or inbetween. I would use no more pressure than I had to, made several applications of stripper to allow it to do the work.

I tried something differnt after sanding my A___ off and all the dust. I counter sunk all nails and used a hand planner to take 2/32" off then feathered down with sanding.The deck looked like new.....with all the characteristics of aging on treated wood.

Just something I tried on my own deck and will use it again for severly neglected wood.

[PressurePros 249]

You guys are assuming you have to sand. I rarely ever have to sand. Maybe knock down a few fuzzies on cedar rails but thats about it. On the contrary, I walked on a deck that one of my competitor's did with hot water. The grain was almost a 1/4" above the rest of the surface. It was very damaged. Hot water wipes out all the lignin between the grain.

As far as using a surface cleaner. You can do it but on most hot days you need to shoot some water onto the rest of the deck and rails to keep the stripper/cleaner wet. A surface cleaner won't allow you to do it. The surface cleaner does not reach into corners or under rails. I can move just as fast using a 65 degree tip (18") as the guy in the video was moving and I have one less piece of gear to take off and put away. To each his own, I guess.

Wesley, SealMaxx is not valid wood science. I have talked to at least 20 people that would like to take them to court for their lousy customer service and outlandish claims.

Jon, the link is a movie, try right clicking on it and saving it.

Brent, that was a true restoration. How long did it take you?

[Jarrod 22]

Wesley - I think I know of the co. you mentioned that uses the surface cleaner and has a long warranty. There was one here this year and they claim to "petrify" the wood so it never needs to be mantained again. They rip people off and screw up every deck that they do. Every deck they did last summer will be grey in summer 06. This company came from Canada originally and went bankrupt because of all the lawsuits.

In closing - any "company" using a rotary nozzle to do DECKS with should return their crappy equipment to the garage sale they got it from and go work at Burger King.

[Matt in Dallas TX 14]

why doesnt someone contact the company in the movie and ask them to come here and explain/clear up how they do things? I'm sure we'd all be interested and maybe enlightened....

go straight to the horses mouth...

instead of speculating....

[Mike Williamson 198]

.....another difference between the eastern guys and the western guys. It astounds me how different the methods are from one side of the country to the other. I talk to many contractors in the west frequently, and nearly ALL of them use hot water for stripping (most are involved in home restoration). Get this.....I know guys that ONLY use rotary nozzles for restoring wood. No chems at all. Sounds crazy, but........if chems "damage" the wood, then why not just damage it with pressure, and avoid stripping paint, killing plants, etching glass, etc?? Besides, to look decent you have to buff/polish/sand the wood anyways.........

IMO, it is always good to consider other methods and analyze them without bias (not referring to PP's pic, I couldn't open it). I think those in the east use methods that have essentially been taught/created by those making products for the particular application. To "water blast" a deck would not be profitable for them. So you create chems to do the job, "spin" info to propegate the idea that water/hot water damages wood, but chems do not, and you enhance the market for your products. Not trying to be a conspiracy theorist, but there are people that get some mighty fine results doing things differently than a PWNA wood course would suggest. Just some thoughts.

Why the assumption that we're damaging the wood with the chemicals? It would seem that using high pressure on decks, especially softer woods, would be much more damaging than using chemicals designed to do what we need them to do without damaging the wood.

[Celeste 341]

What this is boiling down to is that different contractors have different methods that they are successful with. Just because it may not be the way someone else learned it doesn't mean it's wrong. The same applies to chemicals, which is not what this thread is about, but still, what works for one may not work for another for whatever reason.

This forum is for contractors to be able to ask questions, post useful information and share ideas and methods. No one should be subjected to bashing of any sort for their way of working unless of course they're hurting something (environment) or someone.

Let's all play nice.

Celeste

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

REMINDER: Please remember to read and uphold the rules of this BBS.

Beth

[Jarrod 22]

There is only 1 way to properly restore a deck - strip it, brighten it, & stain (seal) it. - Without hot water and roto nozzles. End of story. Any other way would be wrong or substandard.

Celest - I wasn't being harsh towards Jon, just the people he mentioned. I edited the post anyways just to be certain not to offend him.

[Mike Williamson 198]

What this is boiling down to is that different contractors have different methods that they are successful with. Just because it may not be the way someone else learned it doesn't mean it's wrong. The same applies to chemicals, which is not what this thread is about, but still, what works for one may not work for another for whatever reason.

This forum is for contractors to be able to ask questions, post useful information and share ideas and methods. No one should be subjected to bashing of any sort for their way of working unless of course they're hurting something (environment) or someone.

Let's all play nice.

Celeste

Agreed, but when we see, or someone suggests, a method that we know will be detrimental to the property being cleaned, shouldn't we say something? Granted, things can be said nicely, or sarcastically, and I'm certainly guilty of the latter on numerous occasions.

[Celeste 341]

Agreed, but when we see, or someone suggests, a method that we know will be detrimental to the property being cleaned, shouldn't we say something?

A good bit of this thread has been edited/deleted, however, the methods that have been suggested here are all viable in certain circumstances. It is not unusual to see a turbo being used on logs - logs still being wood, but very unlike deck or fence boards. Also, I have read that western states, specifically California, are encouraging the use of Ipe for decks, etc... because of its burn properties (comparable to concrete). Ipe is so hard you could just about use a zero degree with full pressure and still not cause damage. And certainly if the weather calls for it, warming the water up enough to aid the chemicals is not incorrect procedure. A blanket comment about techniques is not always appropriate, especially when there are knowledgable pros in the conversation.

Celeste

[Jarrod 22]

A little sarcasm never killed anyone. My sarcastic post got erased! Jeeze! Lighten up. We all need a good laugh every once & a while.

[Mike Williamson 198]

A good bit of this thread has been edited/deleted, however, the methods that have been suggested here are all viable in certain circumstances. It is not unusual to see a turbo being used on logs - logs still being wood, but very unlike deck or fence boards. Also, I have read that western states, specifically California, are encouraging the use of Ipe for decks, etc... because of its burn properties (comparable to concrete). Ipe is so hard you could just about use a zero degree with full pressure and still not cause damage. And certainly if the weather calls for it, warming the water up enough to aid the chemicals is not incorrect procedure. A blanket comment about techniques is not always appropriate, especially when there are knowledgable pros in the conversation.

Celeste

Agreed, but since the thread began with a video of a deck being cleaned, my assumption was that we were talking about decks. I'm certainly not an expert, and I asked that question myself, is it appropriate to heat the water at all, since what you said makes sense to me. Everything I've read from those who do deck restoration leads me to believe that the less pressure, the better, and that chemicals work better in place of pressure.

[Celeste 341]

As far as decks go, yes you are correct, is most definitely better to let the chems do the work, use as little pressure as possible and traumatize the wood the least. The only reason that I interjected other uses and procedures is that there is always a circumstance somewhere that the basics may not apply and the thread started tilting slightly before the editfest :)

Celeste

[RogerG 14]

There is only 1 way to properly restore a deck - strip it, brighten it, & stain (seal) it. - Without hot water and roto nozzles. End of story. Any other way would be wrong or substandard.

I think I would have to diagree with you on this because if someone wanted to they could sand the deck down to new wood. It will take you a month of Sunday's to do it, but it is another way.

Roger

[Jarrod 22]

I think we're splitting hairs now Roger. LOL