Correct Knowledge

[tony szabo 14]

Thanks everyone, because this is slowly getting somewhere but Slow.

The 10 years is just a example, it does not have to be 10 years.

Lets all help here and get anwsers, the hot air is starting to cool down finally.

[tony szabo 14]

There is got to be

Okay I agree that vendors would be qualified to educate us about their products. Proven marketing experts by their peers, well you could get into what is considered "proven" but lets not. I think most people here would consider a Ken F a proven marketing expert for example (sorry to keep dragging you into this Ken). :) Successful pressure washing companies of more than 10 yrs. This one I would personally drop the 10 year or any amount of years thing. To me an x amount of time in business is a poor choice to qualify somebody. The only thing I measure success with in business is PROFITS. So a successful PWing company to me would be a company that's bottom line has been x amount for three or more years in a row. But again it doesn't mean they are also good teachers or even want to share their knowledge.

This whole thing just seems weird to me. To point a finger at one person or several people fitting all the specific requirements is just silly. It's like you want us all to wander around looking for a leader we can all worship. :lgbow: I personally don't like rules and guidlines, I am more of a freelancer and I like the freedom of choosing who I think is a successful person. I pick their brain and move on, some I become friends with. If I surround myself with successful people there is a good chance I will succeed and that is really all I care about.

/Tony, I know you are hoping to hear from a person "qualified" in marketing roof cleaning at the RT, because it's a venture you want to endure and that's great. We tried to get another board member from FL up hear to do it but because of some other issues, he has disappeared (which I'm still upset about). He is considered by a lot of people a qualified roof cleaning person and would of been a big plus to have at the RT. I hope whomever we find fits your qualifications and you learn something./

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Some points I would like to make here is that throughout this thread people have been doing a great job of keeping it for the most part, productive and having a lively discussion. There is still some undertones of enmity and I would like to encourage that water under the bridge be considered here and let's take a fresh look at what we as a community can do. We have learned from the past and still with numerous opinions and ideas, the focus is narrowing.

People look to places like TGS for information and I would like to emphasize that word. Information. It is not education. That is conducted in a different manner. TGS is an information resource, networking and a place to keep in touch with the latest developments in the industry.

With that said, I think we collectively would agree that the point of 'quality' and 'reputable' education in this industry is needed. Again, in this post, I would like to point out that the opportunity is here for change. Only a relative few have posted here in relation to the number of actual members the community consists of. We need a stronger and broader range of voices on this. Perhaps it is that we have in this thread the most assertive of individuals who are not afraid to speak out and push for change. I would like all of you to look at that.

Is this as high as we feel the need to set the bar? Who is going to take us seriously? Especially if only a small percentage are speaking up?

We have our Round Table meetings and keeping everything light and informal, but is this sending a message? Perhaps an environment without politics is more preferable? Perhaps there is something lacking in the formal arena that is available in the RT's. The popularity and success of the RT's is not linked to any one factor but people do benefit from them in ways that are not always easily definable. Those who attend them find value in the networking and the mini-seminars but I will point out that it is attended by the majority of the business owners themselves. The affordability and timing is likely a key factor. Also, the numerous events being held in various parts of the country are another.

On another note being discussed, here is something else to consider.

Many have portfolios and testimonials to show but even those come under fire by consumers who have been burned. I myself have been accused of only using the best photos of the best jobs and that our testimonials were possibly illegitimate. Having the main form of credentials fall into doubt what is left? My word? My years of experience? My license number?

What has helped to ease fears of illegitimacy were affiliations. They had weight and strength of numbers that were publically available for inspection and inquiry. Arbitrarily, one can debate the worth of affiliations but I don't believe anyone can deny that they have been in this position before.

So, where does that leave us? Lacking credibility is a hard thing to overcome without a publicly verifiable accreditation to fall back on. Do we to conduct our businesses this informally? Without any publically acceptable substantiation?

Rod!~

[FCPWLLC 233]

Not enough bandwidth for me to say all the things I could say here.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Then get off dial up and post man, post! ;)

Beth

[Proclean 14]

I will have to put in my 2 cents. I would feel left out with such good company.

I think what this thread shows is the passion and professionalism that all the posters have written. I mean if you stand back and read this thread, it really shows how profession these people are. It is a sham that we cannot get an organization together and further educate and certify our profession(s) – Wood work, KEC, flatwork etc. I thought and was on board with the PWNA. But someone nailed it earlier, they are gasping for air and wood is the latest gasp. I’m not going down this road – that is not what this thread is about, but that is all I have to say publicly on this matter.

Teaching and certification almost do not mean anything to the consumer. Quality and price are the 2 most important considerations. How well you sell this depends on your success – IMHO.

What works for me would probably not work for someone else. And if you live in AZ, I can guarantee it. For those of you who don’t know me, all I do is wood.

Do I have 10 years experience? No. I do stain decks year round (I’ve got 6 booked for Jan which is normal). Do I do them right? I try my best to do the best job I can do. This is where subjectivity comes into play. I wish I knew more about other areas of PW’ing to comment. But, almost every deck I do or maintain is a little different. You can teach the basic’s, but after that you’re on your own. Where as if you do plumbing, it is very black & white. I learn everyday. In the field experience in wood care is the only real teacher.

I also think someone else said it earlier in saying that the industry has to be specific. In that I mean, flatwork has its own org, Wood care has its own org and etc.

Great thread, great people with great info on trying to get things together. True professionalism

[James 625]

It seems the direction of the PWNA and the way they handle business at the present time has created a void in the industry. Last year it was WRAPI that was developed ? A good idea and well thought out? This year GrassRoots due to the momentum of the ACR round table. A good idea? Seems like it.

As far as marketing goes you don't need to have any experiance in power washing to teach marketing. Companies hire marketing companies to grow their biz's. Seem's like Ken can do that and Matt made a nice presentation.

Plus there's a billion books and tape's out there on the subject and your local chamber and SBA.

The technical side of Power Washing and all it's surfaces and sealer's and how to evolve from your knowledge is lacking. And how to discern the crap and being bamboozaled. This take's time and experiance at leased five years. Different segements of the industry take time to evolve and understand. Opinions formed from trial and error not unsubstantiated wisdom and theory. This you may get from someone who has done it once!

I think a conference formatt or a tech seminar with the leading experts that have the BILLY factor ( creadibility) would be some kind of starting point. Since I started my biz I have attended other industry seminars and trade shows to keep fresh or to see how much I know. Alway's try new methods and sample stuff. Keeps the brain moving. It maybe time to share my woodcare innovations?

[Celeste 341]

Jim, if you ever decide to hold a class, sign me up as the first attendee. We've had our "go-rounds" on the boards, however, once in person, well, all I can say is WOW and I would love to learn from you.

Celeste

[FCPWLLC 233]

Actually I've got T-1 speed here. There's just so much one could say about this thread.......

I, for one, NEVER like to hear the word "experience." I have walked into rooms where there were 20+ year experienced guys standing there scratching thier heads trying to solve a problem only to have me walk up and say "Maybe if you do this, then that and so forth, then the whatchmacallit will fall into place and the Item will run smoothly"

Just because someone has lots of years doing something in an inefficient manner, doesn't make them good at anything other than being inefficient.

A new comer with Outside the box thinking can very well come into ANY industry and bring to the Table some very good knowledge.

Who would most of you rather take advice from?

a/ A guy that made $100k this year working only 3 days a week with lots of time to spend in the forums or with his kids. He is Successful.

b/ A guy that made $100k this year working 7 days a week because he had no skills in Proper Marketing or Sales or a grasp on TRUE business numbers so he was forced to sell jobs based on price and volume. He calls himself successful.

I would listen to what a guy has to say when he says he can get $0.25/sqft versus getting $0.04/sqft.

Some of the "experts" in our industry, teach out of date methods or not enough info to arm a student with what he REALLY needs to know to be successful in business. Teaching a guy to spray water and then sending them on thier way has gone on long enough. It has been creating low-ball pricing and high supply of technicans. Why is $0.04/ sqft all someone can get? Because he is forced to bed against guys that took a class on spraying water but only knows how to sell on price.

The new move is toward educating Technicians how to run profitable businesses so that the industry doesn't continue to be drug through the ditches. Everybody can admit that spraying water isn't glamorous in the eyes of the public. I was at a New Years Party with some "Successful" people that aren't impressed when I tell them I own a Pressure Cleaning Service. Even though I make as much $$ as some of them do. My accountant makes less than I do, but he gets more respect when he shakes someones hand and tells them his occupation.

A good example is this..... My friend is a Chef and makes Huge $$$. The fry cook at Mc Donalds does not. For the industry to look like Chefs we have to take a different approach than what has been. 20 year vet at flipping burgers isn't going to be able to teach and produce Chefs. If people close thier eyes to new teachers or methods then they will be working more for less.

Someone mentioned wanting to take advice from a "Proven" roof cleaner to learn to market Roof cleaning. I would take the advice from a fresh out of school Marketing Grad before I'd seek out someone that's been cleaning roofs for 20 years. I'd look to the Roof Cleaner for advice on chems or best practices for hose management efficiency.

Too much to say here. I'll be at the St Louis RT and I love to talk. Problem is this...... As long as someone is closed minded to the idea that a guy with just a few moments pressure washing isn't qualified to give advice, then they won't learn much anyhow. The industry needs to get outside the Box.

Even better, it needs to get WAY outside the box to see more than one side of that box.

[squirtgun 122]

John T,

Yep,everyone loves a RT.They are a great way to meet others who share the same passion for the industry.

This entire thread started because of what?Tony doesn't think someone should be speaking at a RT.

I have no desire to teach, but I have cleaned a gawd awful lot of concrete and I make my customers very happy with the result and service they recieve.We have 2yrs part time and a little over 3 years full time under our belts and I still don't think I know all there is to know about this business.We aren't nearly as successful or profitable as I would like to be,but I'm happy with the way we are heading.

I recently sat down with a sage of business wisdom who started out in another industry with $0 and now owns a multi-million dollar business(he is personally worth much more than that).His words of wisdom to me were simply this "You and only you can determine how successful you are." He then told me how he worked for over 5 yrs before he was reaching the goals he has set forth for his company.

[JFife 14]

Michael Kriesle hit it out of the park! Well said. And NEVER worry about the glamour factor of your job. My best friend is a VP at a major bank, heads up commercial lending. He said, you can almost bank on it, the Co's he goes and visits that have nice, trendy offices, etc. will be showing a weak bottom line. Their exterior is glamourous, but the books read otherwise. He said the Co's that would blow you away are the ones that have a run-down warehouse, "Smith Bolt and Screw" etc., looks like they haven't done anything to improve their Co. in 20 years. Look like they are about to fold. He said when he looks at these Co's, he'll regularly see a net profit in the multi-million dollar range for a personally owned biz. He told me the facade of Law Firms, ad agencys, etc. don't hold a candle to this type of biz when it comes to real profit. Just found that interesting coming from a commercial lender.....I always think on that when I am bothered by being in a less-than-professional career.

[Scott Stone 604]

Michael Kriesle hit it out of the park! Well said. And NEVER worry about the glamour factor of your job. My best friend is a VP at a major bank, heads up commercial lending. He said, you can almost bank on it, the Co's he goes and visits that have nice, trendy offices, etc. will be showing a weak bottom line. Their exterior is glamourous, but the books read otherwise. He said the Co's that would blow you away are the ones that have a run-down warehouse, "Smith Bolt and Screw" etc., looks like they haven't done anything to improve their Co. in 20 years. Look like they are about to fold. He said when he looks at these Co's, he'll regularly see a net profit in the multi-million dollar range for a personally owned biz. He told me the facade of Law Firms, ad agencys, etc. don't hold a candle to this type of biz when it comes to real profit. Just found that interesting coming from a commercial lender.....I always think on that when I am bothered by being in a less-than-professional career.

You have gotta read "the millionaire next door". It outlines this perfectly. So often the guy that has all the toys doesn't have any money, but does have a lot of debt. Those things need to be taken into account.

As for this thread, that has nothing to do with it. When it comes to training in this industry or any industry, you will always need to take multiple classes in order to develop your own personal technique. No two people or companies are going to have the same routine. So, in order to be most effective, you are going to need to learn from as amny different peple as you possibly can. Even a brand new guy might come up with a good idea, but I would not bank on following his routine to the letter.

[Jeff 232]

My wife & I love telling people that I own a pressure washing business. Hell I dont care what they think if they look negative, I'm just happy to be working for myself. I love telling people I spray water for a living

As for this thread, an Org would be nice, but probably will never have an all incompassing org for all. We will always have hacks and a trade that to some will be hard to sell as a trade. Theres always going to be guys that get a Lowes PWer and do things the hard way or wrong....That was me some years back.

So the more BB's out there that help teach and dont fight all the time or put down others all the time the better. It wasnt until Ron strickland from Xterior turned me onto The Cleaner Network that i started doing things a better way and i have LEARNED TONS from these BB's. What I liked about Ron Strickland telling me about TCN, is he knew it might take some biz away from Xterior, but he knew I needed help and to learn so he told me where to look.

Everybody can be a teacher, we all learn & teach all the time

[JFife 14]

You have gotta read "the millionaire next door". It outlines this perfectly. So often the guy that has all the toys doesn't have any money, but does have a lot of debt. Those things need to be taken into account.

As for this thread, that has nothing to do with it. When it comes to training in this industry or any industry, you will always need to take multiple classes in order to develop your own personal technique. No two people or companies are going to have the same routine. So, in order to be most effective, you are going to need to learn from as amny different peple as you possibly can. Even a brand new guy might come up with a good idea, but I would not bank on following his routine to the letter.

I indeed have, very good book. Definite "must read" for anyone.

[Jarrod 22]

Maybe everyone who is going to "speak" at a round table should post their credentials. That way the individuals that want to attend can view them before they decide to come. To me, thats very fair. What do you all think?

[Celeste 341]

Isn't that somewhat insulting to the contractor who is sponsoring/coordinating/funding the event? These Round Tables are not sanctioned by any big brother. I certainly didn't ask for a resume for folks that voluteered to partipate in my last round table......won't do it for my next one. These events are promoted on these bbs by our fellow contractors. If people don't have enough respect for what these individuals are doing on their own, maybe they should stay home and make up their own event and rules.

Celeste

[squirtgun 122]

Maybe everyone who is going to "speak" at a round table should post their credentials. That way the individuals that want to attend can view them before they decide to come. To me, thats very fair. What do you all think?

You bumped your head today didn't ya?

[JFife 14]

What's wrong with it?? If I knew nobody involved, heard of it, that's the first thing I'd want to know......WHO ARE these people I'll be learning from?? Don't think Jarrod was implying that you'd have to show your gross/net numbers, but name, background, education, useful learning (seminars, etc), years in biz, specialties, special projects, etc. If this info isn't impressive--state THIS INFO ISN'T IMPRESSIVE!! Like Don M. for instance....first year full-time, etc....what does he have to teach me?? I dunno, maybe nothing, maybe lots, but there is no reason for him to hide from those credentials. Could say, "I'm new, but I've spent months accumulating the best info I can on product branding to do a 30min lecture". Great!! I like the credentials idea.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Well if you think about it, if you need complex surgery, you want to check the Dr out right? Before you go to college you check them out? I see nothing wrong at all in wanting to know what qualifications a person has....their resume so to speak. In fact, it makes sense.

Beth

[Celeste 341]

http://forums.thegrimescene.com/industry-news-events/9187-power-washers-north-america-domain-name-dispute.html

Let's take a look at the "industry leaders" credentials.

[squirtgun 122]

OK,OK I get it.

[seymore 90]

In the field experience in wood care is the only real teacher.

I could not agree more with that Paul!

[Don M. 14]

What's wrong with it?? If I knew nobody involved, heard of it, that's the first thing I'd want to know......WHO ARE these people I'll be learning from?? Don't think Jarrod was implying that you'd have to show your gross/net numbers, but name, background, education, useful learning (seminars, etc), years in biz, specialties, special projects, etc. If this info isn't impressive--state THIS INFO ISN'T IMPRESSIVE!! Like Don M. for instance....first year full-time, etc....what does he have to teach me?? I dunno, maybe nothing, maybe lots, but there is no reason for him to hide from those credentials. Could say, "I'm new, but I've spent months accumulating the best info I can on product branding to do a 30min lecture". Great!! I like the credentials idea.

Jon, I know I dont have the credentials, that why I have put the effort into getting people to speak at the RT that does.

You know something, here is the facts. I've listed the speakers, and if you feel like they dont have the knowledge you are looking for, thats fine. This is MY event. I have decided on who is going to speak, and what the topics are. This is a free country. No one is going to dictate to me who is qualified and who is not. It is your choice if you want to attend or not.

I talked to another contractor today, and he feels this has all stemed from the PWNA. He explained it to me basically that the PWNA feels these roundtables are taking money out of their coffers, and now they are on the defense because someone can come to my roundtable for 30 bucks, for some gas money and a hotel room and learn how to market their business. If (or it might exist, I dont know) the PWNA offered something like this, than the cost to get this same kind of info would be in the hundreds of dollars.

I forgot where I read it, but somewhere I read that Henry Ford was on the witness stand being grilled my some hotshot lawyer asking him questions Ford didnt have the answer to. Finally, Ford said something to the affect of Dont you know I can push a button and summon x amount of people that would know the ansewers to these questions? Thats the way I feel. I posted this before, but I feel I have several people that are only a phone call away.

I am new to this business, I am going into my 2nd year full time. From my first year to my 2nd year I grew my business by 400%. With that being said I feel like I struggled in marketing my business. My goal is to have my wife quit work at the end of 08. In order for that to happen something has to change. So in my mind I decided to put this event on and the speakers that I asked to speak more than graciously accepted.

Am I going to speak at the RT, yes. Am I going to lead discussions about any topics, no. I dont feel like I am "qualified" to do that. But I do know that I am "qualified" to put on one heck of a event.

Come if you want, stay at home if you want. But I feel this is the way the industry is going. New guys like me are coming on the scene and saying the old way is not working, something new has to happen.

So, does anybody want to join the "NWO" of the pressure washing industry? (for all you old wrestling fans out there) I can have Keith from KBK design us a cool logo.

[seymore 90]

So, does anybody want to join the "NWO" of the pressure washing industry? (for all you old wrestling fans out there) I can have Keith from KBK design us a cool logo.

NWO4_LiFe_4_EvEr :lolsign:

That was a good post Don :cool:

[Celeste 341]

:lgkick: Woo hoo to the NWO :lgkick: