The Economy; how do you feel about it?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

This topic was brought up in another thread so I brought it here for others to discuss.

Rod,

Not sure how old you are but suspect I have more than a few years on you. Let me tell you about the "doom and gloom" prognosticators and American skeptics throughout just my lifetime.

In the '60's, remember the book, think it was Silent Spring by Rachael Carson? Was all the rage. Pesticides were killing nature and humans. We were all going to die. Fact is, pesticides are used more today than ever.

Maybe a bit later was the "population time bomb". This remarkable idea was that humankind was breeding itself right out of the food supply. Potable water and food production would not keep up and half the world would starve. Really, bet at least half of Americans took this as gospel. What happened? Population soared, but so did food production. Agriculture expanded at a tremendous rate, thanks in part to the use of more pesticides! Mass starvation today is nowhere near the levels at the time this nonsense took hold, while world population has since maybe doubled.

In the early '80's my family business was living on bank credit. Interest rates were at 18%! A partner and I had been trying to finance a startup at the time. Let alone walking on eggs with an old established business, a new venture at those rates was just not feasible. Talk about "doom and gloom". Everyone thought it was the coming of the next Great Depression. What happened? Change of executive branch administration and economic policy jump started a furious economic comeback. Ever wonder why so many older Americans loved Ronald Reagan? My family business survived, and the startup venture went no where but in '82 successfully launched and operated another startup on my own. There were no soup lines, no Depression, and the American economy roared back, bigger and better than ever.

Again, in the I think '80's, Japan was taking over the world. Their management, culture, quality control, etc. was burying American business. We were doomed. What happened? America remains on an upward economic growth curve while Japan has been mired in little or no true growth for what, 15 to 20 years?

In Sept. 2001, this country suffered a huge blow. The financial infrastructure in the US and much of the world was dismembered. What happened? The stock market tanked. So what? Slow hands took a beating, and my wife and I had substantial paper loses in equities. Friends with weak hands and no faith finally bailed near the bottom. Then what happened? Real estate went through the roof. The equities markets came roaring back! For two years, I did a lot of trading and made money without having a clue! The DJIA over the past 50 years has yielded ~ 11%/annum with dividends. Compound that. Take a look at a long term DJIA chart since 1920. What do you see? Think thats going to change anytime soon?

Ok, so the looming disasters of the decade are national debt, Iraq war, global warming, energy crisis, a booming China, poor public education, too many fat people. Newscasts and the media love to trumpet this trash. And most people are sheep, blindly believing background noise without thought.

There are problems, real measurable issues. But is the US becoming the next France? Are we all going to die from heat or drown from rising sea water or eat ourselves to death because we're too stupid due to bad education? Is China going to own each and every American? Back to the buggy due to no fuel for our cars?

Please. Doom and naysayers have been around much longer than I have. They generally are short term prognisticators, either making a buck off of feeding the masses this sensational pablum, or just miserable people trying to justify their unhappiness. They have no knowlege of history or appreciation of the strength, will, and dynamic change the American people and econcomy have demonstrated time and again.

In short, I think most of this hand wringing, Chicken Little worldview is pure, unadulterated B.S.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Doom and gloom. That is a catch all phrase towards people who speak up about the things others do not want to hear. Employing ignorance as a guide would be foolish for me to do so.

My perspective: We have a family which relies on the income of a significant business. That business is subject to the trends, restrictions and devices of government action. Currently that government is in debt to the tune of billions resulting from overspending. Where do you think the next president will look to get that paid down? Taxes! Who pays them? Not just the private citizen but the bulk is placed on businesses. What impacts do you think that will have on them? I see; unemployment rising, downsizing, cutbacks in spending...what was that? Cut backs in spending! Now who do you think will feel that? Do you think that your customers will be able to continue spending at their current rate if their financial condition deteriorates as a result of an impact from a business they work for, own, or have investments in that is forced to take these measures in order to stay in business. It's called depression. After all the inflation, it is inevitable and a probability analysts and economic coordinators have been trying to avoid.

Here's another indicator; A report was released showing that americans possess an average of 5+ credit cards and that most are living well beyond their means. A great number are taking the earned income credit and not getting as much back at tax time. This is what fuels our season. Tax refunds! When they are low, so is the seasons business. We are a growing company and have plenty of repeat clients along with new ones. But the trend over the past couple of years is that people are wanting to do less during each service than in years before and spreading the services out over longer periods. What this tells me is that money is getting tight.

Current Bank prime is at 8.25% and new home purchases are declining. T'bills are down which means less money to draw from in lean times. Oil prices have just fallen again so the dow goes up. This is a false reading. As we all see each spring, the price of gas at the pump skyrockets with the temps. That cost goes into the food people buy, travel expenses, shipping costs etc.

It doesn't take a degree in any field of finances to see that the economic outlook is shaky.

Good that you are comfortable with your finances, but the stability has been like you pointed out subject to economic stresses. That is that part I am talking about foremost...neither you, I or anyone else is in complete control of their finances. It is a fact that is sobering and keeps me aware.

I am not saying doom and gloom, I am saying: Don't get complacent. Don't get comfortable.

Change is certain.

We agree on one thing...the media hype is bs.

Rod!~

[John Orr 206]

I answered "Great", but I wouldn't say I have "no concerns". The downturn in the housing market has actually restored the normal house-prep-prior-to-selling routine that has been missing for the last few years. SO far, everything points to an increase in revenue this year.

[PressurePros 249]

That's an interesting point, John. The housing market is slow and now sellers have to make their house stand out from the rest. This would be a strong campaign for agents who are also chomping at the bit to move properties.

The economy right now is a little hard to predict. Depending on which house you watch, economists seem to have dramatically different forecasts. What else is new right? The point is there is always uncertainty and our goverment is not helping matters. The reality is though, homeowners are sitting on inflated equity from the recent boom and rising interest rates mean they are gonna stay put. That puts the remodeling sector at an advantage and most guys I talk to in that field say business is booming. We're kind of the tailbone (or maybe the hiney) that rides that wave.

My customers spend a little over $700 per year with me on average. Thats hardly a big nut for someone sitting in $500,000+ home. The work has to get done. Anyone that will let a half million dollar house fall apart because they need to cut spending to compensate for a 3% rise in food costs is not my customer.

I would be more concerned if I earned 100% of my living from commercial work, but again there is so much out there to clean and it needs to get done. A savvy business owner will know where to find good clientele.

[Scott Stone 604]

This is curious. The stock market has had the largest sustained upswing since 1954. Nearly every local economy is booming. Unemployment is at all time lows. Personal income is up. People are spending money like it is going out of style, since they feel, for them most part that their personal economy has a good outlook.

Yet, the press says that the economy is the dumps. We are in a recession, and that there is no way out with the current national leadership.

Is it just me, or are there more than a few things that do not add up with all of this?

[FCPWLLC 233]

Way I see things is that with planning and discipline, a guy can prosper in any kind of economy. Save while things are good so that you can take advantage of opportunities when things are slow. I personally like it when it is a buyers market for property. Bad for the folks that over-extended themselves but great for the guy that has a bank-roll ready to buy at a lower price.

Just like Hurricanes... Bad for the folks that didn't have insurance or rainy-day fund, but great for Storm Chasers or home remodlers. For every bad there is a good. Just depends on how a person has planned.

I see some sweet Real Estate deals comming soon and have been putting away for it. pessimists will cry, while optimists will buy.

[John Doherty 126]

Interest rates are low, unemployment is low, inflation is low, we have the highest home ownership rates in history. I agree we should NEVER get complacent, and I think things aren't as bad as we may hear if we listen to a snippet here and there.

As far as I'm concerned, the sky is NOT falling.

[RPetry 564]

Rod,

In all fairness, you take my post out of context and make it a poster child for some poll on a self generated new thread. My post was a direct response to a few statements by you, highlighted below.

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Rod Quote:

I feel that placing any faith in our economy is a huge mistake waiting to happen.

What? You have no faith in the US economy? We're the largest economic powerhouse on the face of the earth, past, present and for quite a few years in the future. I do not understand the scepticism.

Rod Quote:

I for one will not allow our company to be vulnerable to an ill turn in it.

Price of oil, concurrent 1st world recessions, market crashes, anyone who's lived for more than 15 yrs. has been through all three. Ill turns are always around the corner, so what? How are you going to protect See Dirt Run!? By taking job deposits? Moving to Chavez's new socialism Venezuela? You cannot be serious in believing what you have written. Chicken Little has not gained the upper hand. America remains the promised land of opportunity.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

For anyone curious of the true context of the original discussion, go to Rod's submission, post #29, at the following link, and read into the following page.

http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/residential-pressure-washing/9658-deposits-anyone-2.html

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Rick,

He's enjoying your lively discussion so much it warrants it's own thread! See how inspirational you are? ;)

Beth

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

My responses are in blue.

Rod,

In all fairness, you take my post out of context and make it a poster child for some poll on a self generated new thread. My post was a direct response to a few statements by you, highlighted below.

Not the case at all Rick. Just thought since you put so much energy and time into your post it was worthy of further discussion without detracting from the original topic (my bad) and allowing that conversation to continue there and providing a venue for further discussion of your points here. Nothing more.

To address your question that you don't understand my skepticism:

It stems from a view albeit a negative one of our governments way of running things. Look at the joke in chief. Before this guy took office, the nation was running in the black. We aren't now. And don't blame 9/11 for that. The retaliatory war that he wouldn't wait for congresses blessing on is the reason.

Price of oil, concurrent 1st world recessions, market crashes, anyone who's lived for more than 15 yrs. has been through all three. Ill turns are always around the corner, so what? How are you going to protect See Dirt Run!? By taking job deposits? Moving to Chavez's new socialism Venezuela? You cannot be serious in believing what you have written. Chicken Little has not gained the upper hand. America remains the promised land of opportunity.

No, that's a bit extremist don't you think? I can run my business in the black and not allow the privilege of credit (We are not a bank) to our customers. I take the risk in labor costs but I get the materials up front. I doubt I can repossess a deck to get the stain off it and back into the container to return it to the manufacturer for a refund.

What is so hard to understand? I believe because of what I see and am informed of. You believe for your reasons. Why contest me on this? My statements were based upon my perspective, hence the statement putting any faith in our economy...et al. By collecting a down, I cover the outward financial responsibilities regarding tangible goods. Labor is not tangible goods but a subject to other means of compensation which we always maintain a buffer. I am very practical and pragmatic when it comes to business. I take nothing for granted.

As for oil. HA! that well is going to run dry. Like a body, there is only so much blood in it, the same applies to the earth and it's oil. We'll all be out of business then...checkmate. Meanwhile, foreign countries control far more than we produce and therein lies the dilemma. Do we allow domestic drilling and endangerment of our own environment to alleviate this dependancy or do we get the military industrial complex holding the patents to release them so that we can use the highly efficient fusion and zero point technology to power our needs. (opening pandora's box)

_____________________________________________________________________________________

For anyone curious of the true context of the original discussion, go to Rod's submission, post #29, at the following link, and read into the following page.

http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/residential-pressure-washing/9658-deposits-anyone-2.html

Here is the post Rick is referring to. I quoted it here for ease of viewing.

I find that no matter how dependable a company may be in fulfilling it's part of the contract, there is the other half of the equation which involves the customer to fulfill their obligations.

Ever get these types of responses?(commercial accounts do this to us)

We don't pay for 30, 45, 60 days after the work has been completed.

We haven't received your I-9

We don't have your insurance certificate showing our company as other insured

All this regardless of "Payable upon date of completion. No net terms extended." written on the contract. This is for first time contracts until credit is established. It is not a given. They never make these requirements up front but as a dodge to stave off payment. Not a good business practice and one I will not do business with again.

Most new commercial accounts have breached the contract payment terms despite our responsiveness and proficiency on the job completion. We operate with the same regard as retail. You want it...you pay for it before you go out the door. This saves us money in collections, staff time, communications costs and helps us to keep our costs down. It is responsible business. Bearing in mind that we are expected to pay given the terms to which we have agreed, I don't consider it a stretch to ask the same of anyone we do business with. We extend net terms to those who have shown financial responsibility and those are a relative few in which we have ongoing business relations.

They call, we do, they pay. It's that simple.

While I can see others points here about not requiring any down and the possible benefits. Thats fine to operate without a net. Just wait till you get burned. I feel that placing any faith in our economy is a huge mistake waiting to happen. I for one will not allow our company to be vulnerable to an ill turn in it.

Cash accounts only.

Rod!~

Ok Rick...what other questions ya got for me?

Rod!~

[Scott Stone 604]

Not the case at all Rick. Just thought since you put so much energy and time into your post it was worthy of further discussion without detracting from the original topic (my bad) and allowing that conversation to continue there and providing a venue for further discussion of your points here. Nothing more.

To address your question that you don't understand my skepticism:

It stems from a view albeit a negative one of our governments way of running things. Look at the joke in chief. Before this guy took office, the nation was running in the black. We aren't now. And don't blame 9/11 for that. The retaliatory war that he wouldn't wait for congresses blessing on is the reason.

Uhm, I think that you are wrong Rod. When Bush took office, we were not running in the black, as so many tout. It was projected by the outgoing administration that we would be in the black in ten years. There is a difference, and since it is verifiable that Clinton was at least untruthful, it is possible that these figurees were cooked, just a bit.

Then additionally, Not even taking into account the "war on terror" and all of its associated costs, you do need to take into account that the Major US financial district was attacked and threw the Stock market into a tailspin for a while. That would have been at least difficult for anyone to overcome.

As for the "retaliatory war that he could not wait for Congress's approval of? Well, here is a link to an newspaper article that shows their approval. CNN.com - Senate approves Iraq war resolution - Oct. 11, 2002

You will notice the overwhelming majority approval. The senate approved it 77-23 and the house approved it 296-133. Those are pretty solid majorities. I don't care what kind of revisionism so many are involved in, these are the facts.

US deficit is shrinking, for now | csmonitor.com

This article tells how the economy is projected to come out over the next year.

[Chappy 138]

Uhm, I think that you are wrong Rod. When Bush took office, we were not running in the black, as so many tout. It was projected by the outgoing administration that we would be in the black in ten years. There is a difference, and since it is verifiable that Clinton was at least untruthful, it is possible that these figurees were cooked, just a bit.

THANK YOU so much for saying that. I cant believe the amount of people that say Clinton had a surplus. So many people say it that now most believe it, even people who should know better. Thats how the press works, just repeat the lie as truth and it will become truth.

there may be underlying problems with the economy but overall it is very sound. We will always have corrections and downturns, but the economy will grow overall.

too many people overextend financially, expecially on houses trying to get what they think is the American Dream. Many are going to lose thier houses, not because of the economy, but because thier own stupidity and bad choices.

the American Dream isnt about wealth and things. its about having a better life and giving thier kids the chance of an even better life. There isnt a person among my circle of friends who doesnt have it better than thier parents. They might not have the stuff, but all of them agree that they have it eiser, and by the time they are thier parents age, they will have the stuff, even more of it. and thier kids will have it better too.

[RPetry 564]

Rod,

With all due respect, your reply is, let me get this palatable, unfathomable. Lets try this one more time.

You stated:

I feel that placing any faith in our economy is a huge mistake waiting to happen.

and followed up with:

I for one will not allow our company to be vulnerable to an ill turn in it.

Would any half sane reader think this has anything to do with taking job deposits? Is it my lack of business acumen or bad reading comprehesion?

Look, you made some very strong, blanket diatribes on the state and future of the U.S. economy. I called you on it.

Skeptics abound, been around since man was made. But on the subject at hand, they've been proved wrong, false, shameful prophets, time and time again. History has many lessons to teach.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

My response are in blue.

Look at the joke in chief. Before this guy took office, the nation was running in the black. We aren't now. And don't blame 9/11 for that. The retaliatory war that he wouldn't wait for congresses blessing on is the reason.

Uhm, I think that you are wrong Rod. When Bush took office, we were not running in the black, as so many tout. It was projected by the outgoing administration that we would be in the black in ten years. There is a difference, and since it is verifiable that Clinton was at least untruthful, it is possible that these figurees were cooked, just a bit.

Budget of the United States Government, FY 2006

This is what I was referring to.

http://dsp-psd.pwgsc.gc.ca/Collection-R/LoPBdP/CIR/887-e.htm#13.%20The%202000%20Federal%20Budget(txt)

There was a 2.6 billion dollar surplus in the federal budget for fiscal year 1999-2000.

Budget of the United States Government, FY 2006

As of 2004 the federal budget was at 412 billion dollars in deficit.

I apologize for not being clear.

Then additionally, Not even taking into account the "war on terror" and all of its associated costs, you do need to take into account that the Major US financial district was attacked and threw the Stock market into a tailspin for a while. That would have been at least difficult for anyone to overcome.

Agreed.

As for the "retaliatory war that he could not wait for Congress's approval of? Well, here is a link to an newspaper article that shows their approval. CNN.com - Senate approves Iraq war resolution - Oct. 11, 2002

You will notice the overwhelming majority approval. The senate approved it 77-23 and the house approved it 296-133. Those are pretty solid majorities. I don't care what kind of revisionism so many are involved in, these are the facts.

Yes, but he pressed them to do it even though no W.M.D's were ever located by their intelligence reports. It was a deficient government with republicans running the whole show and anyone who did not agree (democrats) was admonished. dubya pushed for the congress' approval because come hell or high water he was going to make the declaration with or without them.

US deficit is shrinking, for now | csmonitor.com

This article tells how the economy is projected to come out over the next year.

Yep, 217 billion dollar budget deficit. It's going down, but it is still in the red.

The governments indebtedness (deficit) has been growing since before I was born.

I'm surprised Jeff and Philip haven't jumped into this one. It's right up their alley.

Rod!~

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Rod,

Would any half sane reader think this has anything to do with taking job deposits? Is it my lack of business acumen or bad reading comprehesion?

No, just the precautions I take in business. As I mentioned, I cover the tangible goods with the down. The rest is the labor obligation I would have to pay should the client not be able to pay for any reason related to the economy and it's impact upon them. (layoffs, cutbacks, downsizing etc.)

Rick, you are a man of thoroughness and you ask many questions to make sure you have a complete understanding. Perhaps I am being to brief and verbosity is needed. But I didn't want to make a whole bunch of posts chapters in length.

Look, you made some very strong, blanket diatribes on the state and future of the U.S. economy. I called you on it.

See my post above. No big deal. It's what I see and I backed it up. Yeah, they may be perceived as strong, but they were not directed at anyone here. I don't buy into perceptions though. They are limited and subjective.

Skeptics abound, been around since man was made. But on the subject at hand, they've been proved wrong, false, shameful prophets, time and time again. History has many lessons to teach.

I am like you but with a different perspective. I don't readily buy what is handed me and chose to be a skeptic as long as the government continues to operate without the people.

I am not the popular opinion here but I never try to be. I am what you see.

btw. history is written by the winners. My lesson in history is not to become a part of it.

Rod!~

[Jeff 232]

My response are in blue.

I'm surprised Jeff and Philip haven't jumped into this one. It's right up their alley.

Rod!~

I've been tired & sick.:lgsick: (damn Minnesota)

I havent had time, Ive been calling all my liberal Friends and talking about 2008 when we take back the Whitehouse from those Nazi republicans (LOL)who only take care of the rich corporations and how we are going to spend all that new taxes money.. Ha Ha Ha I crack myself up :lgbounces

VOTE FOR JL IN 2008 - 8 years of George The Wrong Way Dictator, its time for a KING JEFF................cracking myself up Ha Ha Ha

I have some comments on this thread but I'm trying to refrain from getting into the political stuff, it always turns political

We have to Beat the Bush crowd ...... Did I say beat the bush..............I cracking up for sure Ha Ha Ha Ha :lolsign:

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Oh yeah! I remember... -17*. Cold enough for ya?!?

Get well.

Rod!~

btw vote for...um...er...eh....um....what he said.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

This is curious. The stock market has had the largest sustained upswing since 1954.

My guess is it is a WAR economy.

Nearly every local economy is booming.

Ours must be one of the exceptions. Property taxes are sky rocketing and property values are dropping.

Unemployment is at all time lows. Personal income is up. People are spending money like it is going out of style, since they feel, for them most part that their personal economy has a good outlook.

Is this credit card spending?

Yet, the press says that the economy is the dumps. We are in a recession, and that there is no way out with the current national leadership.

Is it just me, or are there more than a few things that do not add up with all of this?

Yeah, 1+1 makes dubya money back.

;)

Rod!~

[RPetry 564]

Oh boy. Another topic with discussion potential degenerates into metaphysical quackery and political empiricism.

First, Ron stuns us all by claiming to be on another time-space continuum...

My lesson in history is not to become a part of it.

Next, our resident political pundit Jeff chimes in with this ditty...

...when we take back the Whitehouse from those Nazi republicans (LOL)...

I think the two of you should get together and start a new blog. It would sure be entertaining. :arg:

Rod, hope you find Earth someday and Jeff, hope you get well before 2008. Villery Clinton may provide some relief. :lgbonk:

[Jeff 232]

Oh boy. Another topic with discussion potential degenerates into metaphysical quackery and political empiricism.

First, Ron stuns us all by claiming to be on another time-space continuum...

Next, our resident political pundit Jeff chimes in with this ditty...

I think the two of you should get together and start a new blog. It would sure be entertaining. :arg:

Rod, hope you find Earth someday and Jeff, hope you get well before 2008. Villery Clinton may provide some relief. :lgbonk:

Oh come on you know I dont really think you republicans are Nazis, maybe the Anti Christ in sheeps clothing, but not Nazis..........still cracking myself up.

I'll vote for who I think is best for me and our country, Democrat or Republican ......yes I have voted republican:lgbugeyes . If Hillary is the nomination, I will not be voting for her unless the Republicans put a way far right candidate up. I dont like Hillary that much at all, she just doesnt ring true and I think it would hurt the country because all the silly s**t the republicans would start agian, but mostly because I dont really like her or trust her

[Jeff 232]

This is curious. The stock market has had the largest sustained upswing since 1954. Nearly every local economy is booming. Unemployment is at all time lows. Personal income is up. People are spending money like it is going out of style, since they feel, for them most part that their personal economy has a good outlook.

Yet, the press says that the economy is the dumps. We are in a recession, and that there is no way out with the current national leadership.

Is it just me, or are there more than a few things that do not add up with all of this?

Alright call me doom & gloom, but these are my observations. "They keep dragging me in"

The economy for me is very good and the overall economy looks good, I just fear somethings that are going on now will hurt the country soon and later for sure. My biggest fear is we have become a country that make little and we have to reley on other countries for much of what we buy today. A lot of it was started by Bill Clinton/NAFTA.... I didnt like it back then and I hate it now

Stock market is doing well, but the majority of Americans arent in the stock market and know very little or nothing at all about the market. I also think the never ending quest for more returns no matter what has hurt America ( such as jobs going overseas and to mexico, companies that cook the books to show better than real returns Enron etc.) A good stock is good.

Nearly every local economy is not booming. There are 100's of thousands of people that got laid off in the past few years. Tell the 1000's of people who lost decent manufacturing job, high tech jobs that are now overseas etc that the economy is booming. Just because you think everything is booiming it isnt for millions of hard working american, Not lazy Americans the hard working one

Unemployment is low, But its the way the #'s are done now They dont count the millions that arent working once they get off or run out of unemployment. What I see is many get jobs that had decent paying jobs now have lesser paying jobs or have to work 2 or 3 jobs just to break even

Once again my biggest fear is all the jobs corperations are sending overseas & to mexico. We have everything Chinese, we have India, Pakistan etc etc either making everything or the tech jobs are going to these countries and we are losing these jobs possibly for ever. We are releying to much on other countries for more & more every day. The reason I fear it is what happens in the future, say there's a world war or a large regional war or some other major calamity. Do you want to have to reley on China or some of these muslim countries to help us out and keep sending us all that we depend on them for now

Our standing in the world now is that everyone hates us in general. We have a president that admitted he screwed up for the past 3 1/2 years, nothing has worked in Iraq, as people were telling him this he just didnt listen and did his cowboy thing. HE ADMITTED the war has been handled wrong, deadly wrong. Why couldnt he have sent these 21,000 or more ( I knew and said we needed more troops years ago, if I knew why the heck didnt Bush & Rummy)troops 3 years ago. Why because then he would of had to admit the Mission Wasnt Accomplished and it would have hurt his election. The reason I bring this up is because he has hurt our standing in the world, hell I think many these other countries SUCK but we need people with us more than against us. I know you'll say we havent had an attck since 9/11, well hell we didnt have one since 1993 world trade attack. Home land security has done very little of the list of things they were suppose to do, WHY all the money is being spent on Iraq. Do you really stick behind Bush and man that basically said for the past 3+years he has screwed up this war, that we never should of been in anyway

There's people right on this BB that are hurting, that have got laid off or downsized. They are now trying to make it PWing what if they dont, what about them and their families. This happens all the time and has forever, but we are losing more & more decent paying jobs to other countries and it will bite us in the ass in the future

Just because you see things booming it isnt every local economy. The state I now live in South Carolina has a couple bright spots but the state as a hole has lost many decent paying jobs, some to overseas or tons to cheap mexican labor

Corperate America take care of your stock holders but you can also be a good citizen

My future and many here futures are looking good because of the economy YAY. We have to stop sending everything to other countries, we built America to be a great country now we build very little.

Doom & Gloom. Jeff, I just looking at the total picture

QUESTION ? Do you all think sending 1000's and 1000's of jobs to other countries is a good or bad thing?

Question? Do you think its good or bad that we dont make 80% of the things we consume, clothes, food, high tech stuff, hell even a lot of military stuff

Question? Do you think NAFTA is a good thing

My futures so bright I got to wear shades. I believe the economy is holding its own and I hope it gets better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"they keep dragging me in" Al Pacino..... The Godfather part # ?

Have fun guys, now come and get me

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I am not as well versed in all this as Jeff and others are but in the scheme of things, I do see past the nice picture the government would have us believe.

Metaphysical, nah, I just beamed down here to play with you guys. My phaser is set on stun as Rick pointed out.

Rod!~

[RPetry 564]

My fault, seems my sick sense of humor has landed me in hot water. My post above has more than ruffled some feathers.

Honestly, my intent was not to be contemptuous to Rod and/or Jeff. But it has hurt some feelings and for that I apologize. I sent the following email to one injured party and meant every word of it.

Come on now, have you lost any sense of humor? Look the post was suppose to both make a point and be funny. See the three "smilies"? I've been with the Grime Scene since 2003 and never used one until this morning.

The thread started out as a poll and what I assurme you meant to be serious discussion on the future of the country / world, whatever. It quickly degenerated into political ranting. That was the point.

Reread your "History" statement, it is absurd and it makes no sense. Read Jeff's political diatribe, it has nothing to do with the original subject. Both are funny.

As far as I know, in the nearly 4 yrs. I have been active on TGS, I have never purposely "bashed" anyone on the boards in a personal way. And I didn't change stripes and turn mean and nasty overnight.

Maybe my sense of humor is different than yours but Jesus, Rod, the post was suppose to be funny. No anomosity towards you or Jeff was ever intended.

I trust this clears the air. Now Jeff, you wrote..

Stock market is doing well, but the majority of Americans arent in the stock market...

If I recall correctly, nearly half of all adult Americans have some investment in U.S. equity markets. Many may not even realize it, but mutual funds, some 401(K) and other plans include common equities in their portfolios.

[Jeff 232]

Hey I dont get hurt feelings I just keep having fun, dont have to apologize to me dude, Rods kind of sensitive sometimes, toughen up there Rod, you cant show weakness to these bastards lol:lgbounces :lgbounces :lgbounces :lgbounces :lgbounces :lgbounces :lgbounces :lgbounces :bullistic I cracking myself up LOL

As for the stock market I know much is in 401K and other things. But part of my point is that more than half of Americans either arent in the stock market or know anything about it even if they are in it.

Like I said the economy is I'd say OK, but there is a lot we are giving up that will get us sooner or later. It is not good that we are sending our fabric of America elsewhere

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Not sensitive, just have to keep it professional. Otherwise, some might think me a hypocrite if I break the rules we make sure everyone else observes.:irritated

Rod!~

btw, beth does the investment stuff, I scan the tabloids such as the post to get my info.:dunno: