Showing new contractors the ropes in your area.

[John T 744]

I had a request thru the bulletin boards from a heck of a nice guy to take out his friend who lives not far from me to show him how I Clean etc. so he can learn so he can go out and make some money. I've done this in the past with guys that are not nowhere near me but this is a little to close for comfort.

Competition is pretty fierce around here with new companies springing up all the time. What I did offer to do was that the guy could call me to ask general questions but I do not give out prices or show guys near me my operation because I know will be competing against each other.

I am very confident in my abilities but to show a guy who may be competing against me for jobs in my area the ropes is a little to close for comfort.

What would you do??

[DAVID V 22]

Take him out, show him a little and talk with him.

Then tell him if he targets your hood you'll arrest him.:sinister:

[anthony szabo 14]

Be caucuses John,

You have a good nature Hart and you want to help out people. Business is Business.

This happens to us all the time but just in a more of a larger area because we are in a more rural area form State to State.

I have helped some guys in my area and next thing they are cut throating my prices and doing botched up work.

Let these guys learn the hard way, and most of the time they will be gone in a season or so. Don't give them the fork and spoon to take food off your plate, make them use their hands and they will give up.

The Hardee's people don't help out the McDonnalds people across the street from each other.

Just from experience,

Tony

[DAVID V 22]

John,

I really don't know what to tell you.

I can tell you from being on the other side of it.

I relocated to Myrtle Beach 3 weeks ago. In June we came down here

for vaca/house hunting. I got a hold of Jeff, owner of JL Pressure washing.

He came over and picked me up for a tour of the beach area and show me a

job his crew was doing a couple blocks from where we were staying.

The 1st thing I told him was I was moving here, he was real cool with that

and took me around to alot of different areas to target when I get here.

He even bought me lunch.

When we got moved down here Jeff took me around again for about 5 hrs.

How great is that. He's taken alot of calls from me and has gave me a great

deal of advise.

Now to my point.

I would not do anything to try to take work from Jeff.

He has helped me more than he would ever imagine.

So go with your gut about this guy.

Good luck

[newlook 265]

Jeff has always been a stand up guy ~ both in his business and on the boards. If the industry had more of what Jeff did for you David then I would think that alot of our questions today about the direction we are heading in would have been answered a long time ago.

[Doug Dahlke 114]

That's a tough question. I already have some local competition on this board who can see what I post. There is another guy in my area that I know and we talk business at times and I have even subbed out a job to him before but we don't get into each others pricing, techniques, customer base, etc.

Boards like this are a great learning tool and others can learn from it just as I have. There are also many people here that I know will talk to you or share info but my business is not a threat to them. Its one thing to share a littlle info here and there with established companies in your area and have a friendship with a reputable competitor. Its another thing to take a guy out with you and show him the ropes knowing he will be in direct competition with you as soon as he is trained.

[One Tough Pressure 580]

I have trained several people from the boards that are close enough to be direct competition. I have not had any problems, we are friends, and refer work to each other often.

One guy was in for a year and a half and quit. He had some decent accounts, but could not do the two job deal anymore. I gained those accounts when he bailed. Look at it as networking vs training your competition.

[FCPWLLC 233]

I helped shorten the learning proccess for some local folks even though they used service-magic to try and get my pricing. I was still a nice guy and helped them out. Hooked them up with Bob at Pressure-tek too.

Fast forward..... Now they are using service magic also and bidding against me. My bid on Deck= $2200 thiers= $800 (900 sqft)

Not anymore. Want to know how I market and sell? It'll cost from here on out. Just my $0.02.

[Jeff 232]

I was on the fence about helping local start ups a while back, I helped a young guy who wanted to do it part time he had a good job with an AC company, but was recently married so I helped him a little and he does maybe 30-40 houses a year and called about a year ago to thank me and bought some chems off me

I figure talk to the person who wants or needs the help and l get a feel for them. Might get burnt, but I would hope most people would appriciate it and maybe help me in the future. Theres a local guy who was in biz for years and I started giving him resi work and he doesnt have heat and has sent me some very good jobs, one job was over 4k for one days work

Then there is Christian from Pressure Works, he had asked for help in I think it was TGS, I didnt jump at helping him and then I met him, nice guy and smart. I didnt really help him with anything, because he picked up stuff off the BB's pretty quick. But we have helped each other, I give him some wood work and he has helped me out when I needed an extra worker and machine. He has given me the heads up on a couple larger jobs and what he hears is going on around tow.

With Dave V he came here and wanted to tell me in person he was going to come into town and I thought it was cool that he did it in person. I could of helped him or not. I figured why not, he's making quite a move dropping everything up north and moving here. I figure he's an OLD man (lol almost my age) why not help.

I figure what goes around comes around. If you help someone sometime they will probably help you. I got burnt once a little, but those people lost out, not me. I just wont get them work anymore

I figure I'll do what feels right to me at the time. I can't blame anyone for not helping a competitor, you could get burnt, so do what you feel is right and don't feel bad if you dont help

[Jarrod 22]

I will never, ever, EVER help ANYONE in my area again. Bites me in the butt every time. I'm surrounded by worthless hacks.

[James 624]

John have them pay you a 2500 hundred dollar fee for 5 day's to tag along.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I was on the fence about helping local start ups a while back, I helped a young guy who wanted to do it part time he had a good job with an AC company, but was recently married so I helped him a little and he does maybe 30-40 houses a year and called about a year ago to thank me and bought some chems off me

I figure talk to the person who wants or needs the help and l get a feel for them. Might get burnt, but I would hope most people would appriciate it and maybe help me in the future. Theres a local guy who was in biz for years and I started giving him resi work and he doesnt have heat and has sent me some very good jobs, one job was over 4k for one days work

Then there is Christian from Pressure Works, he had asked for help in I think it was TGS, I didnt jump at helping him and then I met him, nice guy and smart. I didnt really help him with anything, because he picked up stuff off the BB's pretty quick. But we have helped each other, I give him some wood work and he has helped me out when I needed an extra worker and machine. He has given me the heads up on a couple larger jobs and what he hears is going on around tow.

With Dave V he came here and wanted to tell me in person he was going to come into town and I thought it was cool that he did it in person. I could of helped him or not. I figured why not, he's making quite a move dropping everything up north and moving here. I figure he's an OLD man (lol almost my age) why not help.

I figure what goes around comes around. If you help someone sometime they will probably help you. I got burnt once a little, but those people lost out, not me. I just wont get them work anymore

I figure I'll do what feels right to me at the time. I can't blame anyone for not helping a competitor, you could get burnt, so do what you feel is right and don't feel bad if you dont help

We have been known to help folks out both locally and farther away as well. I think it is important to get to know the person you are helping as well. You can get burned.

Jeff, I have heard about your generosity and how you have given some very, very nice leads to folks, and I guess sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. ;)

Beth

[ezelder 14]

I am mixed about this. I feel that on one side, if you help someone out, out of respect most reasonable people would not step on your toes. But I know many of you have stories on the contrary.

If it really came down to it, I would feel out the situation. Some people you can help and they will remember you. Others will steal your tricks and undercut you every time.

I don't mind a little competitive bidding, but when people start under cutting you 1300, that's when I draw the line. As unethical as collusion is, I think that people should agree to keep pricing in a certain range. Undercutting hacks do nothing but make themselves and us lose potential dollars. Too bad they are too stupid to see that.

[Lightning Gene 66]

Well I have been in business here over a year and no one helped me.....I had to learn by doing my research on this site and keeping up with the forum everyday.....Thank go out to all who have answered my questions here.....

[Tmrrptr 164]

I have only seen 3 other PWers in our area, and heard of maybe another 3 or 4.

Everything I knew about PWing was basically wrong, until I found TGS.

I am a sub, so if anyone needs my help locally, we are for hire.

r

[Greg R 82]

No way..... to easy to get into this market and even easier to underbid. We have a guy that we met at the roundtable I held several years back and for the longest time we never even ran up against him. This year we have bid up against him a dozen or more times and his bids are coming in 30% or more under ours. His kids do the work - hence much less overhead so I guess he dont mind leaving money on the table. On the flipside though we have redone 4 jobs this year that were completed by them last year so I guess in time....

Greg

[Integrity Curb Appeal 64]

I am mixed about this. I feel that on one side, if you help someone out, out of respect most reasonable people would not step on your toes. But I know many of you have stories on the contrary.

If it really came down to it, I would feel out the situation. Some people you can help and they will remember you. Others will steal your tricks and undercut you every time.

I don't mind a little competitive bidding, but when people start under cutting you 1300, that's when I draw the line. As unethical as collusion is, I think that people should agree to keep pricing in a certain range. Undercutting hacks do nothing but make themselves and us lose potential dollars. Too bad they are too stupid to see that.

Amen! So you are from Frankfort, I'm just down the road in Lexington. How's business this year?

[ezelder 14]

well, hello over there!

Its not bad. Frankfort is a pretty funny town anyway, so that presents a challenge in itself.

How is Lex this year? Occasionally I will venture over there to do some things for my step mother, but not often. (she is a realtor)

[FCPWLLC 233]

Lexington is going steady. No huge growth this year. Better customers and higher margins though. Scott (Integrity PSI) and I have teamed up on some nice gigs.

Volunteering cleaning for "Safety City" tommorow for paint prep. Wanna help?

[Integrity Curb Appeal 64]

well, hello over there!

Its not bad. Frankfort is a pretty funny town anyway, so that presents a challenge in itself.

How is Lex this year? Occasionally I will venture over there to do some things for my step mother, but not often. (she is a realtor)

Its been a good year for me. I've had a blast. "No pun intended".

[Jim Carroll 14]

I too am mixed on this issue due to my business being very specific. and yes I am a competitor if you are in the same market that i am in. I have worked in about nine states. i would probably take phone calls or the like if someone landed a job and needed help, but then again maybe not or unless it was something different than my bread and butter. Jeff's cool, he has sent me some work don't think I have ever had the chance to return the favor though.

[Jim Carroll 14]

No way..... to easy to get into this market and even easier to underbid. We have a guy that we met at the roundtable I held several years back and for the longest time we never even ran up against him. This year we have bid up against him a dozen or more times and his bids are coming in 30% or more under ours. His kids do the work - hence much less overhead so I guess he dont mind leaving money on the table. On the flipside though we have redone 4 jobs this year that were completed by them last year so I guess in time....

Greg

situations like this is where I have doubled, or tripled my price and loved it.

[Apple Roof Cleaning 202]

I helped shorten the learning proccess for some local folks even though they used service-magic to try and get my pricing. I was still a nice guy and helped them out. Hooked them up with Bob at Pressure-tek too.

Fast forward..... Now they are using service magic also and bidding against me. My bid on Deck= $2200 thiers= $800 (900 sqft)

Not anymore. Want to know how I market and sell? It'll cost from here on out. Just my $0.02.

Agreed Mike, no way would I train a local competitor.

In my experience,, they are real nice until they pick your brain, and then set themselves up in direct competition to you.

That does NOT mean I can't be friends with them, but bizzness is bizzness.

[ezelder 14]

I think out of respect I would never ask a local for help or advise. I have called a few people on here to pick their brain, but they have all been way out of our area.

I think there are plenty of people in this industry that will take a couple days to let you ride a long. . .as long as you are not in a competing market. If you are not serious enough to drive a few hours a way and spend a little money for OJT, then maybe you need to reconsider everything.

[Jon 533]

From an old retired PWer.

I was trained by someone out of state and only because I knew I was not even going to go into the same field he was in, just learned the basic of how to do etc.

That to me is ok, your not training direct competition nor someone in your own backyard.

Alan and I have bid jobs and won them splitting it right down the middle and it worked great, one reason TRUST.

We lived about 2 hours apart and I or he could have easily drove that far and looked for accounts, again TRUST comes into play here.

To train someone that is a direct competitor to me is asking for big trouble as a couple here have stated.

To John T. your heart wants to help others, but are you comfy enough to know some of your accounts just might leave you for the other guy?

Look at things this way, he is new, you train him, he wants to start making money and where is the first place he is going to go to get new accounts, YOURS.

I have been contacted here by someone that is very interested in getting into this business and I have met him, I can tell he will do well, he knows what he wants to do and is setting his plan in motion slowly.

I can give him advice, I can make suggestions on equipment but I have no knowledge in the field he wants to learn.

I can and will ask others in that line if they are willing to train him for a week when he is ready and none of those people will be here in NM.

So train someone IF they live a couple states over and you feel ok about it.

Train someone in your own area as long as you're prepared to lose some business.

Do not train anyone if you truly do not feel ok with it, remember even if he is not an employee and is working free to gain experience your still liable for anything that happens to him.

Talk to a lawyer and have something drawn up that will relieve you of all liability if he does get hurt OR if he does damage to your customers stuff.

Jon

http://gen2genbooks.com

[Craig 111]

Absolutely NOT!

I can't believe this guy would even have the nerve to ask you to train him.

What are we, some giant daycare? He's gotta go out and EARN his stripes.

If he is not resourceful enough to get his training elsewhere he is not going to make it in business anyway.

I would not give away such valuable resources. If you decide to train him it WILL bite you somewhere along the line. Why give someone else food off of your table when you've worked so hard for it. If you feel generous donate money to a good cause. Don't donate your livelyhood.