My new rig was not what I ordered !

[Washaway 64]

Take it back, and get a different one from someone else.

Ken this is the most valuable post in the thread!!!!!!!!

SPEND YOUR MONEY ELSEWHERE.........and if he gives you sh#t about a refund just leave and come back escorted by the authorities!

DO NOT PLAY HIS GAME!!!

[Crownroyal 14]

Email Karcher and send a link to this thread!!! let them know about this ordeal.

Its never good to buy a product from a crappy dealer, it gives the feeling they don’t care who sells there stuff and that they don’t screen their dealers very well.

By the way go talk to your lawyer and give them a copy of your contract or bill and tell your lawyer that you don’t feel satisfied with the purchase and you want to get your money back or warranting all parts for 3-5 years in writing. Or get a certified letter mailed to this dealer about seeing him in court if he doesn’t do the above noted.

:lgkick:

[ken wiggins 14]

Guys, Your input is invaluable. Thank you all for your input and opinions. I have talked with Russ Johnson and Jonathan Martin today, a great education, and I believe what Ron wrote is very true. When dealers receive in skid units and build them for end users on site, thay can "play" with settings to get more or less GPM and PSI out of different machines. I have to believe [ maybe I am being nieve ] that ICE thought that it would be fine to beef up the 6 and give me 7 1/2 or so, and I would be happy [and I know that thay would make a few hundred more bucks on it ]. However, I am in business and know you try and give the customer what he wants and make as much $ as possible. This is true in all businesses and I don't want to completely bash ICE at this point. These folks have 4 locations, some owned by the family that started it and some sold off. The folks in Wilmington really seem to want to work and make my unit all that I want. Thay seem to want to keep me a happy customer and are going to put a 8.5 General pump on it, and hopefully, adjust it to what I want, 8GPM, and maybe 2800 PSI, and still deliver the heat I want when needed. I explained to Russ and Jonathan the specs that thay are proposing, adjusting the ratios, etc.. I respect their opinions and from what I understand, it is not that unusual to change some settings to deliver the GPM and PSI to what the customer needs or desires. Everyone agrees that the warranty on a complete set up is handled by the dealer, not the manufacture. So , did ICE assume all would be fine ? I am giving the benifit of the doubt and say yes, thay did. Did thay make a very wrong assumtion ? Yes, indeed thay did. Are thay trying to right their wrong ? I have to believe that thay are. So, I will try the unit out Friday. With my limited knowledge, I will try it out and see if it performs as I think it should. I will keep you all informed as to how it all works out. You guys are great, thanks again for your input.

PS I wish we had spell check on this site !

[Jeff 232]

Good Luck Ken, I hope all goes well.

Dont forget to have them put a valve on tank so you can empty the water.

[Jeff 232]

Yea that is crazy!! I don't go for that crap!!! NO WAY!!

I'm sorry Ken that it had to start this way for you!! Lgangry

Trust me Ken. This fella that I gave you was in the washing biz hisself for 5 years or so (don't know for sure how long it was, maybe more) and has been in the sales now for some time.

He sets up real washers for people. I have 3 washer that were shop built.

1- 90 hp John Deere diesel with 3 7@ 3600 comets.

1- 60 hp Duetz Diesel with 2 7@ 3600 comets

1-20 hp lombardini diesel with 8@ 3000 admiral pump.

These were all shop built. I have 3 more washers too that I bought.

He does know his stuff!!

Hey Fullblast, I dont know much about equipment but those machines you had built sound like there really something. You could clean alot of houses LOL. What kind of work do you use all this equipment for. Just wondering. Can you post some pics of your setups too

JL

[newlook 265]

Interesting turn of events. Ken ~ we wish you the best of luck.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

PS I wish we had spell check on this site !

We do. Click the little button that says ABC and has a check mark under those letters, in the upper right of the reply box.

Beth

[ken wiggins 14]

Cool ! I appeciate that !!

[Aplus 525]

The only way to "beef up" a pumps output is to change the pulleys to increase rpm's. That makes the pump work harder, and even though there may be extra capacity untapped, I don't like the idea of working a pump to it's max.

I liken it to overclocking a computer cpu to make it faster. Yes, it's faster in the short term, but the extra heat generated will shorten it's lifespan.

[Mike Williamson 198]

Guys, Your input is invaluable. Thank you all for your input and opinions. I have talked with Russ Johnson and Jonathan Martin today, a great education, and I believe what Ron wrote is very true. When dealers receive in skid units and build them for end users on site, thay can "play" with settings to get more or less GPM and PSI out of different machines. I have to believe [ maybe I am being nieve ] that ICE thought that it would be fine to beef up the 6 and give me 7 1/2 or so, and I would be happy [and I know that thay would make a few hundred more bucks on it ]. However, I am in business and know you try and give the customer what he wants and make as much $ as possible. This is true in all businesses and I don't want to completely bash ICE at this point. These folks have 4 locations, some owned by the family that started it and some sold off. The folks in Wilmington really seem to want to work and make my unit all that I want. Thay seem to want to keep me a happy customer and are going to put a 8.5 General pump on it, and hopefully, adjust it to what I want, 8GPM, and maybe 2800 PSI, and still deliver the heat I want when needed. I explained to Russ and Jonathan the specs that thay are proposing, adjusting the ratios, etc.. I respect their opinions and from what I understand, it is not that unusual to change some settings to deliver the GPM and PSI to what the customer needs or desires. Everyone agrees that the warranty on a complete set up is handled by the dealer, not the manufacture. So , did ICE assume all would be fine ? I am giving the benifit of the doubt and say yes, thay did. Did thay make a very wrong assumtion ? Yes, indeed thay did. Are thay trying to right their wrong ? I have to believe that thay are. So, I will try the unit out Friday. With my limited knowledge, I will try it out and see if it performs as I think it should. I will keep you all informed as to how it all works out. You guys are great, thanks again for your input.

PS I wish we had spell check on this site !

Ken, you're giving them more benefit of the doubt than they deserve. Whether they thought it might all work out ok for you, they lied to you, and tried to screw you.

How would you feel if you took a chevy truck with a 350 in it to the shop to have the motor replaced, and the shop billed you for a new 350 engine but installed a 6 cylindar instead, figuring you'd be just fine with that instead? Same deal here...they sold you one thing, but gave you something less.

[Ron Musgraves 240]

Yea, I've got specs, thay say 24HP, 8GPM. That's what was quoted. Not what was delivered. If manufactures and distributors are not being up and up on the specs thay provide and it is common in the industry, the industry has a problem.

Holy cow.

Let’s talk about this some more.

When you buy a call there’s a sticker in the window telling us the motor size and accessories.

Every time I have bought a pressure cleaner I have received one of these stickers.

If the man made out and estimate for you are those things listed. YES or NO????

Its simple from here, if they are and you didn’t get what you paid you should have never paid.

Second if you didn’t have purchase order forms filled out then still try to take it back.

Third if they don’t take it back then that should tell you exactly who you’ve been dealing with.

Fourth, next time get a reference. Chalk it up to a lessoned learned.

I sorry some believe we live in the good old boy network. People are dishonest and I choose to stay away from them. Some take advantage of weaker individuals or individuals who have never been in the business world.

Trust me, your lucky this happened because there will be customers down the road who will take advantaged also.

PUT STUFF IN WRITING.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Ken,

If you let them do this to you, they will also do it to others. Stop protecting the crook and get him to make it right. If he doesn't, take action. You have the power to put a stop to it. For the sake of other consumers as well as yourself, do something about it.

Beth

[VanDiesel99 14]

Speaking of distributors taking advantage of customers... I got an email from envirospec with a really good price on some telescoping wands. Called to order one before they ran out and found out you had to meet the minimum amount of $100 or something. SO I ordered a little whip hose w/ swivel, a battery box, and a couple of trigger guns. When I receive the merchandise I immediately notice that the battery box is broken in two different places. I blow through guns and find that one has some sort of blockage in it that won't allow hardly any water to pass. So needless to say I am a little mad, so I call espec and tell them the situation. They want me to send back the stuff and pay the shipping cost! They said after the stuff has been inspected then they MIGHT be able to reimburse some of the shipping. What kind of **** is that? SO I send the stuff back, pay the shipping, and write a letter to espec detailing my situation. Still haven't heard back from them. This was about a week and a half ago, yesterday I tried using the linear trigger gun I got with that same order and the brass piece on the inlet side of the gun was cracked and soaked me immediately. SO I guess I will package that up and send it out to. Also, the whip hose leaks where the swivel fitting is crimped to the hose. I don't feel like spending the time to take that apart, I will probably just eat that one and go have it repaired at the hose shop.

Moral of the story is: don't buy anything from envirospec because 4 out of 5 things they sent me were broke or defective

On the positive side, the telescoping wand lasted all the way through the first job so...

[PressurePros 248]

You get what you pay for either in quality or customer service. We try to convince our customers how much better we are, how much better our equipment is, how they should pay us more to do the job right, then we order from companies like E-spec that are everything opposite of how we conduct ourselves.

Not directed at you, Michael, as you were lured in with fraudulent advertising. E-spec is a joke.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Best advice I can offer is to always know what the return policy is with any vendor you choose to work with. Even if you don't like the policy, at least you will know where you stand.

Good luck resolving your issue.

Beth

[VanDiesel99 14]

It seems like espec is legitimate. There image is at least. But all those puppy dog eyes don't do it for me when they are taking advantage of my business.

[Jim Carroll 14]

while you are on the subject I have to give kudos to water cannon. I ordered some stuff one time and it came in wrong. the wrong items were maybe $10, they told me to keep it and they sent me the correct items at no additional charge.

[Jeff 232]

I heard from Ken a few days ago and after talking to a couple of the distributers on this board and getting advise from them , the company Ken bought the rig from has made right on the equipment I hear. I think Ken got a new pump 8.5 put on and they will warranty everything. Its to bad we hard working people have to put up with some of this stuff, but I guess it happens

Last time i heard from Ken a day or 2 ago he was washing some concrete and everything was going OK

Good luck Ken

And to the companies that dont offer good service or products to us PWers watch out the word will get around. We dont want stuff for free we just want the best products, service and a honest business to deal with. On the infomation highway the word can travel fast.

JL

[Jarrod 22]

Not directed at you, Michael, as you were lured in with fraudulent advertising. E-spec is a joke.

I have yet to have a problem with E spec in 5 years.

[Mike Williamson 198]

I have yet to have a problem with E spec in 5 years.

Me too.

I'd also like to give kudos to Sunbrite...they messed up on the shipping and caused me a bit of inconvenience...not big deal, but they took the initiative to call ME when they realized their mistake and gave me a credit for the shipping for my trouble.

[CCPC 26]

In my opinion, E-Spec has about the worst customer service, and a lot of their products are garbage. I had a very similar experience some time ago with them about somthing I ordered, and when I recieved it, it wasn't the right part. I called them about it, and they also wanted me to ship it back, and I told them heck no! After some choice attitude from Mr Alison, they did send me the correct part.

The sad thing was, it was only about a 2 dollar nozzle, which is why I almost laughed when he wanted me to send it back to them. So I should make a special trip to the post office, package this thing, and spend my dollar to get a replacement for their screw up? Not gonna do it.

I still order some things from them, and besides a few minor issues, and having to deal with very poor customer service, I basicly tolarate doing business with them on occasion.

You know, now I've got myself all agravated at them again, maybe I'll stop buying from them all together. Why should I give them my business when they obviously have little appreciation to their customers. I know that if I treated my customers that way, I wouldn't be around for very long.

[squirtgun 122]

When we were building our rig I called to see if I could come pick up a machine instead of paying $300 in state freight.Espec is only 2 hours away but, noooooo.The attitude I got was uncalled for and it definitely made a bad impression on any future purchase considerations.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

You guys do realize I hope that you don't have to tolerate any of the type of treatment you are getting.... with the number of vendors out there all asking for your business, they should be tripping over themselves to give you the very best service at a fair price. I'm glad to see Sunbrite made right on the mishap. See, that's the way it should be. Make it right. You guys are out in the field working day in and day out and you need to know when you order, you get what you need. You don't need one more headache. You need the piece of mind that the vendor you choose, will help you stay on schedule. Of course planning is important too. Don't set yourself up to ask for chemicals to be overnighted when the laws prohibit it. Order in advance with enough of a time buffer that you don't get bitten waiting for something. (make sure you have 2 weeks worth of what you need on hand when you order) Hope this helps. We found it helps us.

Beth

[Mathew Johnson 123]

Speaking of distributors taking advantage of customers... I got an email from envirospec with a really good price on some telescoping wands. Called to order one before they ran out and found out you had to meet the minimum amount of $100 or something. SO I ordered a little whip hose w/ swivel, a battery box, and a couple of trigger guns. When I receive the merchandise I immediately notice that the battery box is broken in two different places. I blow through guns and find that one has some sort of blockage in it that won't allow hardly any water to pass. So needless to say I am a little mad, so I call espec and tell them the situation. They want me to send back the stuff and pay the shipping cost! They said after the stuff has been inspected then they MIGHT be able to reimburse some of the shipping. What kind of **** is that? SO I send the stuff back, pay the shipping, and write a letter to espec detailing my situation. Still haven't heard back from them. This was about a week and a half ago, yesterday I tried using the linear trigger gun I got with that same order and the brass piece on the inlet side of the gun was cracked and soaked me immediately. SO I guess I will package that up and send it out to. Also, the whip hose leaks where the swivel fitting is crimped to the hose. I don't feel like spending the time to take that apart, I will probably just eat that one and go have it repaired at the hose shop.

Moral of the story is: don't buy anything from envirospec because 4 out of 5 things they sent me were broke or defective

On the positive side, the telescoping wand lasted all the way through the first job so...

Last year I bought a couple of hudson float valves from Espec. Keep in mind it was part of a several hundred dollar order. I installed the float valve and it didn't work. I called to return it. Nooooo... they told me that since it was installed.. it couldn't be returned... Before that I had a similar problem with a turbo nozzle from them..

Needless to say I haven't spent a cent with them since then. I feel that they exemplify what poor customer service is all about.

[Mike Williamson 198]

Last year I bought a couple of hudson float valves from Espec. Keep in mind it was part of a several hundred dollar order. I installed the float valve and it didn't work. I called to return it. Nooooo... they told me that since it was installed.. it couldn't be returned... Before that I had a similar problem with a turbo nozzle from them..

Needless to say I haven't spent a cent with them since then. I feel that they exemplify what poor customer service is all about.

I think the reason they are so reluctant to take returns is the same reason many of us buy from them...they are cheap...for many parts, they are significantly cheaper than anyone else I've found. I'm sure their profit margin is pretty low, so every return hurts.