Correct Knowledge

[Jarrod 22]

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If I had a choice I would rather have my company be taught by a person that comes from a very successful company such as a Flood, Benjamin Moore, V-seal, Prosoco etc.

Hey John, When you mention Flood, are you talking about the same company that makes CWF Flood deck stain that H.D. sells?

[tony szabo 14]

This post got more attention than what I thought. Us old timers just need to help guide sometimes and lately I see new pressure washing companies just starting this business get educated by someone that is a green horn themselves.

I was not trying to start a class or something or wanting to teach, but to help make sure the new pressure washing guys understand who they are dealing with, and lean towards experience and success instead of popularity or popular names on bbs's for education.

I agree John, get the education straight from the company that makes the product you are using. Most stain companies do this for FREE. Just call them and ask, they even have great perks to help you get started.

[John T 744]

Hey John, When you mention Flood, are you talking about the same company that makes CWF Flood deck stain that H.D. sells?

Jarrod,

Yes thats the company. I may not use some of there products but I would be interested in some of there teachings. I would like to be taught by some of these very successful companies where they teach you how things are done. The product pushing or endorsement should come at the end of the class or after the class. This was one of the things that the PWNA's rules where at the the Conventions. When one is teaching a class they were not there to push a product yet the goal was to have the teachers teach the students on the "How to's". They where not allowed to push any products in these classes and you had many BOD's dropping into these classes to make sure these rules where followed. After the class they could talk about there products to anyone that wanted to know about them but not during. Classes are there for people to learn and to learn from the companies like Tony I believe is expressing that are very successful is a plus for all.

I would love to get a company like Cabots commit to teach a generic class on wood restoration and for them to use all the research they had done with there money and pass it on to us in a classroom atmosphere would be great. Once the class is over then they can do the upsell of there products or better yet they can rent a booth at the big dances and sell there products there. This is I believe what Tony point is along with the point of beware of the one's who come unto the bb's and act like they know everything then next thing there trying to sell the newbies on idea;s that are false. What Tony is not saying and either am I is that there isn't anyone on the bb;s that are worthy of teaching. That is simply not true. Example of this is Tom Vogle who has been on this bb and a few others. He can teach pump/equipment classes with his eyes close. Beth can teach Marketing and wood classes since she has many years of exeprience in both. She won the Marketing contest at the Dallas PWNA/IWCA convention and some of the companies she beat where some window washing companies who gross in the millions along with some powerwashing companies. Ron ********** can teach Flatwork cleaning also with his eyes close and his feet up on the desk and these are just 3 bb to name a few.

The reality is its nice to know that your getting and education by some successful people..

[tony szabo 14]

Right on John, these people are great examples, you make this sound easy.

By the way since we are both on line at the same time and its past midnight, Happy New Year !

I just got back from roller skating with my girls and I came home with no broken bones. Woo Hoo!

[John T 744]

HEY TONYYYYY,

Happy new year to you and yours..you know me stuck at work somewhere. Hey family first like we discuss last week. Talked to my wife after that call and..whooooshh my life has taken a major and dramatic turn including buying another business(3 jobs now). My whole outlook has changed about many many things with one of them is of me stepping down in 2 weeks my PBA presidency position on this job and may retire here as soon as this June. Still trying to stay one more year here of unlimited OT with this racket but will see about that. The burnout with me in my many involvments is..comming to an end on my terms which is always a good thing. Burning no bridges and completed most task that I have taken on. Looking to build my 2 businesses that are related and to have alot more quality time with my wife and girls.....sound familiar:)

[PRESSURE PACKED 14]

I UNDERSTAND WHAT TONY IS SAYING,AND HE IS RIGHT...BUT HE IS ALSO WRONG. IN A PROFESSION WITH SO MANY VARIABLES THERE IS NO DEFINITIVE ANSEWER.ie LOCATION WEATHER, JOB MARKET...I THINK MOST OF US ARENT LOOKING FOR "THE ANSWER" TO OUR QUESTIONS RATHER WE ARE LOOKING TO OTHERS EXPERINCES TAKING IN ALL THE INFO AND ARE MAKING A MORE EDUCATED DECISION,

[PressurePros 249]

Good morning and Happy New Year. Now I have to take offense that someone makes assumptions based on what some group of jokers deems gospel. I have my feathers ruffled now. How dare someone judge my skills and earning capability based upon where I spend my time. Lets get some things straight.

I have owned businesses from live sound production companies to beer distributors over the last 19 years. Every single one of them sold for nice profit. My ladies gym franchise reached its 1000th member in December. Our ice cream parlor has customer counts of 200 people per day in December. Our Ocean City, NJ rental property goes for $4000 per week during peak season and is always booked during that time. Pressure Pros, Inc while falling well short of my gross projection, is on the rise.. '07 will see a new business manager and some outsourcing of HR duties. Restore-A-Deck will be distributed in retailers in the United States and Canada for '07 and by '08 will be worldwide. Am I successful enough for you?

I have a degree in economics, I taught sales at a very high profile corporate based retailer. I've managed teams from 2-20. I have read every book, attended a ton of seminars and applied most of the techniques in real life. Am I qualified to teach? to offer advise? I've done exhaust cleaning, house washing, deck restoration, and written articles for publication. I first picked up a wand 20 years ago (though I put it back down again quickly). Am I qualified to open my mouth about cleaning techniques?

Now, do I need to assess myself and get away from business for a few hours every day? You betcha. During peak season I am reading emails by 5:30 am and coming back from doing estimates at 9 pm. In between and after I come to TGS because I love to write and it is therapeutic. Business is my relaxation as disturbing as that sounds. I live for it.

I really dislike being on the defensive and having to make an egotistical tirade but this is what it is. Some people need to climb down off of a high horse and quit making judgements. I could stand here and judge all days and point fingers.

"You, over there, you are an equipment junky", "you, over there, you have the IRS attaching your earnings", "you, over there, I've seen pictures of your work and its nothing special", and "you, over there, if you didn't have the internet you would not have had the werewithall to distribute your product lines".

The hypocritical, fence walking, gossipy nature of a few in this business is what it is. Human beings are what they are..not perfect. My goal is to make profit, share some laughs, and give back what had been given to me. If a minority of self proclaimed experts wants to judge me for my liesure time activity, thats on them.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Ken,

You have a wealth of experience, and we are all glad you share it here. I understand completely about the writing thing...that's me as well!!!! ;)

All,

As I have said before, there are many, many folks here who have wonderful knowledge and experience to offer.

It's okay, we don't all have to agree that the net is here to stay and so are the BBS's, we don't have to agree that this is the way the future is heading, we don't have to agree that each day the number of people going online for the first time increases dramatically. We can argue that there is nothing but junk out there, but I guess the fine people at Time Warner, CNN, etc....would not even blink at that. Today, you can get RSS feeds to your phone or other hand held device while in the field. We have users who do. You can go online in the field, look up a member, and call them for help. People do this too. It saves them time and money and it is today's networking.

I coud go on and on...and I may later on - NYD and all I am feeling a bit reflective. But coffee....:cup: I'll need another pot to kick start me....back later...

Beth

[Jarrod 22]

John, Thanks for responding. To be fair, I won't name names. I would not want to hear 1 word that an "expert" would want to say that makes an inferior product. You guys mention the research that they have done & the info they could share with us right? If the research they have done led them to make a substandard product, I think that the info they would share with a class would also be substandard.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Personal opinion....

A manufacturer will teach you how to use their product. This may be the extent of it or may not depending on the manufacturer. Manufacturers want us to be successful with their goods so that we will continue to use them. It's that simple.

Beth :groovy3:

[Jeff 232]

Good morning and Happy New Year. Now I have to take offense that someone makes assumptions based on what some group of jokers deems gospel. I have my feathers ruffled now. How dare someone judge my skills and earning capability based upon where I spend my time. Lets get some things straight.

I have owned businesses from live sound production companies to beer distributors over the last 19 years. Every single one of them sold for nice profit. My ladies gym franchise reached its 1000th member in December. Our ice cream parlor has customer counts of 200 people per day in December. Our Ocean City, NJ rental property goes for $4000 per week during peak season and is always booked during that time. Pressure Pros, Inc while falling well short of my gross projection, is on the rise.. '07 will see a new business manager and some outsourcing of HR duties. Restore-A-Deck will be distributed in retailers in the United States and Canada for '07 and by '08 will be worldwide. Am I successful enough for you?

I have a degree in economics, I taught sales at a very high profile corporate based retailer. I've managed teams from 2-20. I have read every book, attended a ton of seminars and applied most of the techniques in real life. Am I qualified to teach? to offer advise? I've done exhaust cleaning, house washing, deck restoration, and written articles for publication. I first picked up a wand 20 years ago (though I put it back down again quickly). Am I qualified to open my mouth about cleaning techniques?

Now, do I need to assess myself and get away from business for a few hours every day? You betcha. During peak season I am reading emails by 5:30 am and coming back from doing estimates at 9 pm. In between and after I come to TGS because I love to write and it is therapeutic. Business is my relaxation as disturbing as that sounds. I live for it.

I really dislike being on the defensive and having to make an egotistical tirade but this is what it is. Some people need to climb down off of a high horse and quit making judgements. I could stand here and judge all days and point fingers.

"You, over there, you are an equipment junky", "you, over there, you have the IRS attaching your earnings", "you, over there, I've seen pictures of your work and its nothing special", and "you, over there, if you didn't have the internet you would not have had the werewithall to distribute your product lines".

The hypocritical, fence walking, gossipy nature of a few in this business is what it is. Human beings are what they are..not perfect. My goal is to make profit, share some laughs, and give back what had been given to me. If a minority of self proclaimed experts wants to judge me for my liesure time activity, thats on them.

Damn 200 a day in an Ice cream parlor in December up north, your doing better than most down here in sunny South Carolina.

Ken dont let anyone aggravate you, hate to see it. Im nowhere at the levels you have been and are in your many ventures, but I too find my business a relaxing fun thing to do. Is there any hobby thats better than watching things grow, that someone built with their own hands & mind.

I always wanted to open up a little ice cream or hot dog stand and have my brother run it. Theres just to many around here......200 @ at least $3.25 per person, if I could get those #'s I'd have my bro here in a heart beat......just dreaming out loud.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Having dealt with a number of manufacturers on their products and looking for help in trouble shooting to get a good result for my customers I have come to a conclusion that most do not have what it takes to offer a complete educational course.

My reason for stating this is as follows:

1. The ones queried have not actually been out in the field to deal with maintenance after the initial application nor do they always have products that can help get the deck back to the optimal condition. The users of the product are left to punt.

2. They put the blame on the contractor even though they have followed the label directions.

3. Rarely do any of the labeled directions give any instruction on how to deal with the issues associated with conditions present on a deck that has been exposed to life.

4. I have been instructed to use methods contrary to the label, technical data sheets and/or manufacturers specifications for warranted installation.

5. Most importantly, their products do not always perform as stated on the label.

These are points I would use to disqualify them as a suitable instructor/teacher for a class.

The ones who are qualified in my opinion are the ones who have been out in the field and have had to deal with life exposure decks and structures, neglect, misuse and improper applications. The tried and true experienced professional who can back up their results in an industry sanctified test.

As far as how long one has been doing it, the only concern I would have is if that person has been doing it right more than wrong. Take company A who has been servicing for 10 years (arbitrary numbers here) and they have been doing it incorrect by todays standards. While company B who has done their homework and after let's say 5 years is doing work that produces quality far greater than their 10 year in business counterpart. You see, there is a problem with qualification by years in business as to an actual portfolio that shows their work and testimonials.

What is a measure of success? Like before in the previous example, determining that company A, B or C has been in business X number of years with Y$$$ income and has X number of employees does not unequivocally qualify them to become an instructor. This is unbalanced and incomplete. There needs to be tangible proof.

Tangible proof is in the knowledge and use of X number of products or the use of Y number of equipment-tools/surfaces/structures in addition to Z amount of accredited education. This is the same formula as is found in a resume'.

Validation is the determining factor we all must take into consideration. There are a few manufacturers that do offer good quality courses and provide excellent technical support on their products. But who is to accredit them as being a worthy source of information if you don't always use their products? It is biased education.

In wood restoration for example, there is a myriad of products for use in cleaning, stripping, restoring that vary by chemical class and specific use of each. Not to mention the number of different types of coatings, finishes, preservatives, sealants, fortifier's and protectants. How many has any one company dealt with by their staff?

Don't be fooled, most of them are reading information on a screen to help a caller and the answers are generic and narrow spectrum...for liabilities sake of course. Their products performance capabilities has been determined by an environmental accelerator which exposes a product to various intensity's of UV, heat, dry, cold, rain, freeze until a failure point is achieved in order to come up with an idea of how long it will last. This is not real life.

Experienced users know. How about this as a criterion for validation?:

How many years have they used a component specific product(s)? Which are they still using? Why/why not? Do they know what determines a component specific products applicability or unsuitability? Do they know how to remove a number of products? Which chemical or compound works best for which situation and why? Do they know which tools-equipment are best for condition A, B, C etc... Do they understand the safety regulations and practice them? What does their business profile look like? Are they following state and federal guidelines in all aspects of their business? There are probably a dozen more qualifying questions but you get the point.

As far as BBS's and the information available on them are concerned;

That falls into the lap of the person receiving the information to make the choice on whether it is valid or not. Many do research in other areas to qualify what they have read. Let's give people some credit here for being able to think for themselves. Perhaps there are people who would like to see a dependency for information to come only in a structured setting like a classroom. But that is another subject in itself.

This subject of correct knowledge alone has it's own merits for discussion and I encourage others to participate. It is important.

Rod!~

[Jarrod 22]

Rod, I agree totally. I would rather learn from a fellow contractor than some manufacturer any day of the week. I don't want to hear someone just sing the company song every time a ? gets asked. Experienced contractors know a lot more about the products they use than the manufactoures do.

The reason why is that they look at the product with both eyes open. The manufacturer knows how it should work, the contractor knows how it does work.

[Jarrod 22]

I have owned businesses from live sound production companies to beer distributors over the last 19 years. Every single one of them sold for nice profit. My ladies gym franchise reached its 1000th member in December. Our ice cream parlor has customer counts of 200 people per day in December.

Ahh, I see how you do it Kenny! You fatten 'em up with your addictive ice cream, & then you sell them a gym membership! Hmmmmmm.

[newlook 265]

Very good thread and some interesting thoughts!

How does one determine who in our industry is considered to be "qualified" to instruct and/or teach on a particular topic? What are the guidelines and if there are guidelines, where did they come from?

I know of a thread a while back on TGS that spoke on what qualifies and individual to be considered a professional. The views on that were interesting because it spoke on the same logic as to who determines who is a professional.

This thread could go around and around and dance on this particular topic for many months. Until a existing org or a "new org" truly embraces the needs and issues of the power washing industry these type of debates will continue!

As Beth mentioned, there is a wealth of experience not only from TGS members but from people in this business all over the world. This experience is being used to grow each individuals companies to a different level. Along the way an individual may find a unique way of doing things and want to share it with the community. I find nothing wrong with that. It is healthy for our industry and it is good business!

Folks in the power washing industry have stood patiently over the years to embrace that one organization that would truly represent ALL power washers. I am not sure if that organization truly exists today.

So what we have is folks in our industry taking matters into their own hands with the creation of new websites, agenda packed roundtables, marketing seminars and etc.

Tony, I certainly understand your point and your reasoning. Yes, it is better to be trained and educted by groups/individuals that carry the credentials but who are they and who decided that they are the experts?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I think Carlos made a pot of coffee too.... ;)

Beth

[newlook 265]

Peetes...French Roast...2 mugs this morning...:sinister:

[James 625]

I have to say this is fun reading. " Seattle's Best Coffee" is a good start to a morning.!!

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I never touch the stuff myself...but I do like a productive conversation.

Rod!~

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I remember when we took the PWNA Wood Certification class in 1999. As I recall Wolman had a great deal to do with the beginning of that program. Over time it has evolved, and more information has been added to it and taken from it, as new products came onto the market based upon new technologies. This is logical. Information needs to continue to evolve and change with the industry.

Beth

[Celeste 341]

I hope this is taken with a grain of salt.

I see alot of new orgizations and new people and new bulliten boards latley in the pressure washing profession. Is this industry becoming a loose cannon with education, knowledge, experience. It seems to me it is and I do have concerns about the future of our industry.

So, why have you disappeared from the boards? These forums are one of the finest outlets for veterans to help change the course - by guiding the newbies.

How can someone with less than five years experience educate a course or a classroom on a topic just because they had a good season or made their first $100,000? These so call educators and instructors are getting most of their material from the Web ? . In all, may be some good advice, but where that information is coming from is mainly text from another site.

Where has anyone on the board indicated that they were "teaching" anything or offering a "course"? Last time I checked, there are Round Tables being held - topics of discussion are being LEAD or topics are being presented to contractors by another contractor that has had success in an area. Didn't see anyone offering any certifications.

Just because you spend countless hours on reading and getting tips from a 30 year veteran still does not give the proper education to teach a flat work course.(for example)

I dare say that spending countless hours reading freely offered advise and tips from (who's the 30 year veteran?) has HURT anyone reading them and I would definitely say that it cuts YEARS from the learning curve. Industry leaders such as V-Seal, Flood, Ready Seal (yes manufacturers) ARE attending these round tables and speaking and making themselves available to us little contractors so all combined, why does a certain number of years become a requisite to becoming a professional? I can go take a 72 hour course and become a substitute teacher in a 5th grade classroom - it's okay to do that, shaping our CHILDREN, but it's not okay for someone who has washed 100,000's of 1,000's of sq feet of flatwork in their first season to impart their experiences?

We need to follow the industry leaders that have been around for years and years, that has made millions, that has several employees, that has proven leadership with trust, that has the proper education in their field of pressure washing.

Actually, if they're so good and successful, I'd rather learn from their teachers - or OOPS - was that on the job learning???? I'm pretty sure that chemicals, processes and equipment have changed over the course of those decades you're referring to - who's teaching those veterans to keep up????

The web is a tool for information but not to copy and teach. If you spend all your time on the bbs's and on the phones to find information that means your business is not busy in the field.

Not addressing this remark - there are far too many successful contractors on this board to even dignify that our companies aren't busy in the field.

If the new guys gets the wrong information, not enough information, less information that they really need to know they will not last long and black eye the industry.

Hey, no need to worry about a new guy leaving a black eye - we've got "the recognized leaders of the industry" doing it for us - in spades.

We need true leadership that has been around for decades not because someone made $100,000 part time their third year in business.

I'd certainly rather follow someone who leads by example making $100K in their 3rd part time year who has good business ethics, provides good customer service and strives to make the industry look professional.

We are all in this together and most of us have down time this time of year are are crusing the bbs's. Lets all slow down a bit before somethings get out of control with industry leadership.

Concerned

Tony Szabo

Also why do some people that post do not use their real name?

I proudly use my company name....with all of my contact information and real names in the signature.

[anthony szabo 14]

Rod, if I recall you are a Dr. Pepper drinker in the morning

Not to confuse anyone, this another computer that I use.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Rod, if I recall you are a Dr. Pepper drinker in the morning

Not to confuse anyone, this another computer that I use.

Good memory...he is!

Beth

[One Tough Pressure 580]

Rod, if I recall you are a Dr. Pepper drinker in the morning

Not to confuse anyone, this another computer that I use.

Why not use the same name on both computers?

[Scott Stone 604]

Since I do nto consider myself in any one particular field, and since I do use my sons to help me in my business, and I do not run a huge fleet of trucks, I might not be qualified to post an opinion here.

I do have a few pet peeves with the bulletin boards.

1. There are a few new guys on all of the boards that are just buying their equipment, that just a few short weeks later are complaining about low ballers and hacks. Some of them, do not have a leg to stand on. I love watching some of the internet guru's self destruct, as they copying and pasting the answers others that might, or might not, have the experience to give an educated and proven response.

2. Often people will just come to the boards to get advice, adn not to be part of the community. Many times, I will not respond to someone that I am not familiar with. Call it a personal bias. I would prefer to help someone that I might know, even if they are being covered by the anomynity of the internet.

3. I get so tired of people assuming that since that is the way it is done in Florida, that is the way it must be done in Arizona. We don't have mildew. In the life of my business I have encountered only a minor mildew problem one time. That was last week. Because of this, I can seldom get 10 cents a foot for anything, and I certainly cannot get it for a 750,000 sq. ft. parking garage. But I also can often get in and out of a parking garage of this size in less than a week with one rig, so, am I really low balling?

4. Just because you cannot accomplish something does not mean someone else cannot do a project of the same size at a much higher rate of productivity. Most of my work is under contract for at least a 5 year period. I have plenty of time to try and figure out how to make it work, and since I have this long a period under contract, I am very willing to spend what I need to in order to make a job both much quicker, and more profitable.

5. There are a lot of people offering training. Some are doing it for profit, some are not. I have been approached many times with offers to let me train people. So far, I have not found one that is appealing to me. I do not have a problem teaching people how to do things, and I do believe in training, but a lot of what is needed to be successful in this business is what I consider to be common sense. Of course then, common sense is not so common anymore.

6. Everyone seems to want to get into this business is intent on hanging out in the office, doing estimates and letting employees do the work. I guess in many areas of this industry, that is possible. All of my customers are industrial and governmental, and so that is not in the cards. My customers love it when I am on the job, and am able to answer any questions. There is nothing better than to have a customer that I do other work for come up at a job I have just taken over and to be told how happy he is to see my truck on the job.

7. I spend an inordinate amount of time on this site and others. I have seen a lot of people that have supposed expertise, simply due to the volume of posts. I have nothing against someone making themselves known. It seems though, that new guys are more than willing to listen to an internet presence more than true experience. I guess this is similar to above.

My rant is done. I guess that is why I am reluctant to talk about anything on these boards. There are two many electron cowboys that want to run me through the mud because they do not agree with me.